Alexa Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Who cares what Ray Handly 2 thinks. He'll never be a head coach in the NFL again. He's a position coach at best. I was never impressed with that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 1:26 AM, thesubmittedone said: Many of those same fans who were “screaming” for that (that’s the tone you unfortunately apply to them, which is a problem in and of itself) were right all along, were shot down when they were talking about it, and are now being shot down whenever they criticize whatever perceived issues there are based on much of the same objective analysis. Instead of discussing it in a fruitful, nuanced manner, it far too often comes off like some simply can’t stand any criticism directed at the top brass and conflate the likes of Dan/Bruce to rooting for the Redskins themselves. I can speak from experience, I used to be like this all the time when my fanhood was almost entirely emotional and very little of it rational. My emotions were tied up with the top brass. I thought people were weirdos when they’d complain about the likes of Vinny and Dan’s antics. I used to roll my eyes at them, poor souls. I’d defend Vinny, but then as soon as he was canned, it was like “yeah, that’s the right move”. Huh? Basically, I stood on nothing other than “what the top brass does, I’m with”. Now, I thought I was actually being rational, and at times I was, but the reality was others who I perceived as just “negative” were far more rational. So, to be frank, I struggle to accept your disclaimers, and I honestly thought you were opening your mind up a bit recently, but it seems you’ve totally reverted back into almost exclusively posting defenses of the top brass’s philosophy on every ground. Just on the last page of this thread I’ve touched on Dan enabling Griffin, Dan walking past Cousins to greet Griffin after Cleveland game in 2012, the fact it’s inexcusable we held onto Cousins for essentially one more rental year. I even made reference to McGee and McClain not being worth what we paid them. I stated that Brewer’s article was a fair assessment, and also that I understood how years of ineptitude could lead to frustration for some which colors their view. Those aren’t disclaimers or things I’m hiding behind to protect my love and infatuation for the top brass, those are my actual feelings and thoughts. And NONE of what I just said contradicts my point on the last page, which was I think Brewer’s article is a bit silly. We’ve overcorected because now we are playing it too safe and building the lines? We don’t go after the big guns in FA? I can’t tell you how many articles and fans thoughts I’ve read over the years quietly asserted (this better than screaming, lol) those same things that Brewer now calls overcorrecting. I think that’s a lame stance and that’s all I was saying. I also despised Vinny. After 2009 I was fed the heck up. So please, I’d appreciate it if you stopped lumping me in as top brass protector as if I’ve always agreed with what we’ve done. That’s a large assumption on your part, and unfair in my opinion. Quote Saying things like the “flavor of the month is to spend big” is a perfect example of this. Who said that they just want to spend big? When we celebrated signing Norman and DJax, was that a celebration about “spending big” or spending smart? It was the latter, and until this day we actually commend Bruce for that one aspect of his philosophy that has worked really well, in where we pounce on a late surprise cut and nab a stud when other teams have mostly spent up their cap. Spending big is the nature of free agency and the open market and 32 teams competing for a players services. It just is. It’s extremely difficult to spend “smart” on the open market since a lot of times you must overpay to acquire a FA. The best values are when you let the initial market settle down aka Brown and Swearinger last year. Can you provide some examples of guys that would represent spending smartly? Flavor or of the month was simply a way to describe that recent teams have experienced success spending large amounts of money. But for how long? Take a look at the Jaguars cap situation over the next couple of years, no bueno. The Rams are certainly going to be on a pickle with Donald still needing a massive contract and Goff in a couple of years. It’s tough with the salary cap. I’d prefer that money was allocated to Scherff, Crowder, and Preston. Guys we drafted. True Redskins. Quote You keep complaining that people are missing the nuance to your positions, but all I see is you doing that in damn near every post you make. Generalizations, sweeping assumptions, and labeling people is basically what I expect whenever I see your username. :/ Truly sorry you feel that way. Shrugs. Quote You say something inflammatory that overly generalizes the position of others, then when countered you expand on your point and provide qualifications for everything. Why not just do that in the first place and avoid those intial, unwarranted, drive-bys? Maybe then you’d get nuanced discussions all the time without having to battle the perception you’ve created for yourself? I’m assuming that’s what you want based off of your complaint, right? You are reading far too much into what I said and it seems like “pick a stance and stick with it people,” “screaming,” and “flavor of the month” didn’t sit well with you. I will work on being much more nuanced with my word choices to avoid coming across as inflammatory. Quote As for the lines being built, this one just really boggles my mind. There isn’t anyone on the board that has advocated for this more than the people you’re condescending here by giving them the tone of “screaming” and exaggerating their positions. Who was I condescending here lol? I directly made reference to Brewer’s article. Saying some have switched their stance to wanting to spend more in FA is a factual statement. But was referencing nobody in particular except maybe SIP (we definitely butt heads on FA approach ). It was an observation that came from years and years of reading this here board, listening to 980, etc. Brewer’s article tried to ascertain we overcorrected, which directly contradicts the dozens of articles that were published over the years calling for the approach that has now been implemented. I wasn’t trying to condescend anybody, really. Quote And guess what we were met with the last couple years when we’d talk about it (mainly the Dline)? Meh, the Dline is fine, shut up. Now that they’ve invested major resources there, we’re happy about it but acknowledge that they could’ve done this much sooner and with better resource management, and you’re telling us “...hey, they’re doing it right now, be happy?!” I mean, come on now. You’re seriously reaching here. I’m just not sure based off my last few posts you are saying this. I said nothing of the sort. Quote Then you say, “we aren’t quite there yet”? Are you kidding me!? You make post after post about how good this roster is (which I actually agree with, maybe not to the degree you do, but close), but then you say this? Quote You of all people should be totally on board with the type of thinking that suggest the roster is at a point where you can really push it to the next level. At least it shouldn’t be something you aim shade at. I’ll even take it a step further than you. We were good enough last offseason. The core of our team had been built enough. Were we slightly more aggressive, especially at Dline, where we got a premier player there instead, maybe we could’ve withstood those injuries and our run defense wouldn’t have completely bombed, which altered the season more than anything else. You see, it is precisely because they’re close we want them to get more aggressive! This here just blows my mind. You’re actually saying exactly what we are, except you’re applying some other context for it. Here, you are saying what you think needs to happen before it happens. So it’s perfectly fine for you to apply some arbitrary moment where it becomes okay to get more aggressive (the lines are built, team shows it’s close to a Super Bowl), but when we recognize the time is now (and give plenty of reasoning as to why) we’re just completely trashing sound principles and philosophies like building through the draft and not overspending in FA? So it’s only when you deem them ready, huh? Just let us know when. We aren’t there yet. I’m big time projecting, and have repeatedly said things to the effect that we have to see how this thing plays out first. To my knowledge we haven’t yet advanced deep into the playoffs only to be exited before the big dance. That would be the time in my opinion to spend bigger in FA and add that one or two missing pieces. Otherwise I am totally cool with practicing patience and continuing to build through the draft. I’m hopeful Payne and the return of Allen fixes the run defense. I’m hopeful Guice is a star RB that cures the RB woes. I’m hopeful returning everybody back from injury last year is a bump in the win department. None of that required a more aggressive FA approach. Just my opinion of course. Quote First off, I’m pretty sure you knew I was making a hyperbolic statement to make a point and to not actually take the number of 1000 seriously, right? Secondly, it was about the amount of times responses have been given to you trying to explain it, so what does that have to do with the number of your posts? You could have one post and if it was responded to a bunch of times the point would stand. Anyway, you see what you did there? The “cool kids”, huh? But you’re not grouping and labeling anyone, right? The weird thing is if there’s any groupthink going on, it’s definitely more pronounced with those who espouse some of your views, not anyone else’s. But I won’t get into that more, let’s just avoid the labels, brother. Fair, I will try and avoid the labels. But there seems to be a distinct crew that gets upset or feels threatened or insinuates you are dumb or a top brass protector if you don’t agree with them. My opinions are somewhat different and minority so fail to see how groupthink applies to me in particular. Also fail to see why even mentioning things like this to me based off my . It’s like you took one post to vent on my entire posting history. Quote You say that you also want separation of duties and responsibilities, but I’m left here wondering why you do? I don’t think you’ve ever stated it, and every criticism we’ve had related to said separation you’ve come to Bruce’s defense. I mean, by all accounts you should be perfectly okay with the set up as it is right now. It seems like you’re fronting here. I just don’t buy it, I’m sorry. Again, your disclaimers come off as entirely disingenuous. All I can say is you seem to be making a ton of assumptions. You assumed by me coming to the defense of Bruce in the Kirk contract situation (where I’ve openly communicated that the end result was unacceptable, which falls on Bruce) somehow means I don’t want the best personnel guy to be GM with final say, which fosters accountability. By the way, I’ve talked some on here about promoting Smith and I’d be really excited for it. Quote See, here’s the thing. If you realize the inherent issues there are with the organizational structure, you’d have a sense of urgency about it. You’d feel like people within the building, good people like a Kyle Smith and a Jay Gruden, are not being given an environment conducive to enabling them to be their best selves, right? And then you’d look at the resource management that has been atrocious on some levels, average on others, and good on few, and feel like those things need to happen now. You wouldn’t be applauding Bruce for getting the roster to where it’s at now after being here for going on 9 years, instead you’d be saddened it’s taken this long when there were plenty of avenues and routes that were quicker to be taken, and less of an hindrance or an obstacle to everyone else. I made a post touching on a lot of this recently, and you even claimed to agree with it. I’m going to just cut and paste some of those points so you can see why I feel you come off the way you do: http://es.redskins.com/topic/422074-daniel-snyder-dare-we-say-maturingas-a-competent-owner/?do=findComment&comment=11254801 Instead, whenever you post, it’s just “look at these fools complaining, be happy, things are good”. That’s what it boils down to. And you know what? I’m down with that when people own that they’re just being emotional fans and not really being objective. But when you condescend others who can recognize these issues, or are just attempting to explain why some of the good people within the building are held back so as to avoid them getting trashed and targeted viciously, that’s unfair and frustrating as hell. If you agreed with the post above, where does that come in when you say something like “stick to a stance people” and come down on anyone who takes issue with Bruce’s approach to FA recently? I mean, am I crazy for getting annoyed by that? Can you see where I’m coming from here? You’ve shown me recently you have an ability to do so, you’ve owned up to some things you’ve done (which I respect immensely), and I felt you recently opened your mind a bit by not assuming the worst of those of us who just want to see a better organizational environment. I’m just saddened it seems like you’re reverting back to the antagonistic approach again lately. Can you please direct me to where I’ve attacked or been condescending to posters on the direct issues (i.e organization structure) referenced above? I hate that it took 9 years. Just happy we seem to almost be there and choose to acknowledge some positives instead of continuing to rehash past mishaps. Maybe that’s just my approach to life I dunno. Can’t change the past, so I choose to look toward the future. Never claimed to be all the way there, or that we are perfect and more progress can’t be made. Those are more assumptions on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Alexa said: Who cares what Ray Handly 2 thinks. He'll never be a head coach in the NFL again. He's a position coach at best. I was never impressed with that guy. You're just mad that he never invited you into his windowless, white van for candy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 3:18 AM, thesubmittedone said: Agree about the QB stuff. Can’t believe I’m saying that to you, lol. Boy, you’re so negative. Bruce Allen doesn’t deserve this. As for Scot, the fiasco for me was more about not replacing the position. I believe it was like that for many, as well. nah...I'm talking about everything that happened up to Scot's firing and immediately afterwards...way, WAY over the top imo. It was damn near a feeding frenzy with a couple of media members maybe even acting as a mouthpiece for Scot. For almost everyone, this was deemed a fiasco waaaaaay before anyone was or was not elevated to GM afterwards. Not naming Scot's successor may have underscored what many had already been thinking and believing for months, but I don't think it led to anyone finally concluding it was indeed a "fiasco". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: nah...I'm talking about everything that happened up to Scot's firing and immediately afterwards...way, WAY over the top imo. It was damn near a feeding frenzy with a couple of media members maybe even acting as a mouthpiece for Scot. For almost everyone, this was deemed a fiasco waaaaaay before anyone was or was not elevated to GM afterwards. Not naming Scot's successor may have underscored what many had already been thinking and believing for months, but I don't think it led to anyone finally concluding it was indeed a "fiasco". Lol, nah, huh? I specifically said the fiasco was, for me, more about not replacing the position. Read that again. That in no way implies it wasn’t one before that. I even said how the ugliness of the way it went was: Quote ....yet another implication of an FO too often involved in factionalism/division versus team-centric goals So, yeah, it was a fiasco from the onset. I didn’t even say how much more it was about not replacing him, just that it was more. Not replacing him, as you say, “underscored it all” and therefore validated it being a fiasco. That’s my point, and you even using the phrase “underscored it all” suggests that it really shouldn’t be hard to grasp that it can be viewed as the more important part of the fiasco. And, yes, I believe it was that way with many and it being deemed a fiasco previous to that had nothing to do with that point. I think there would’ve been many, including myself, willing to forgive the fiasco-ness of it all, if you will, had they went about replacing him normally, but they didn’t. I remember a bunch of us saying that we’re waiting to see what they do, posting JLC articles about the GM search at the time, etc... and that’ll define the narrative for better or worse. If your argument is that it would've had minimal effect, and most would’ve just stayed focused on the initial fiasco, I strongly disagree, but that’s largely perception neither of us can really prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 I find it kinda hard to believe that at this point we still have people defending the FO and Dan Snyder. it's like.....................crazy talk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Count me in the crowd that would have more easily forgiven the ugliness of the Scott firing if they really would have went on a legit GM hunt that didn’t end with Doug Williams. The promotion of Doug only poured more gas on the fire. Because it’s what many of us suspected all along and for good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 "And Washington is Washington, right?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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