is it me? (receivers routes JC vs TC)

this isnt a "oMg ToDd Is sO mUcH bEttEr" thread so dont worry.

but my question is, is it me, or do receivers over the past 4 games seem more wide open than they did with jason? im not sure ive seen collins thread a pass into a tight spot over this stretch, it seems that every completion he makes, dudes are wide open, and i just dont remember it seeming that way when jason was in. maybe the playbook is opening more, maybe this is a "real" saunders offense vs the hybrid some thought we were running with campbell, who knows.

all i know is, im seeing our receivers blatantly wide open a lot now and im wondering does anyone else notice this, or am i just being insane?

They have been, it's not just you.

I've been wondering the same thing....

They have been, it's not just you.

I've been wondering the same thing....

alright, one person on board the "BLC isnt insane" train. thank you haha!

NO, it's just that TC has the timing down and is able to hit the receivers as they break. JC is still learning and is passing AFTER the receivers break...which is leading to blown opportunites and INTs.

Please thank the O-Line for this! If you give the QB time in the pocket the WR will get more open.

I just think it comes down to familiarity with the offense. One thing I noticed yesterday at the stadium was the way Collins was anticipating the breaks and throwing the ball at the perfect time. On plays where he would hit Moss on a square in, he would look his way, wait for the exact time he made his break, and throw the ball before the defender could catch up. I think Campbell lacks that sort of decisiveness and might tend to throw the ball a little later when the receiver either runs into more coverage or allows the DB to catch up.

It's could be that TC is getting the ball to the receivers quicker which gives to defensive backs less time to close on their position. With JC's slower release and longer reads, I would say it's very possible.

:laugh: Three posters basically answering the same thing at the same time.

It has been driving me absolutely nuts. I know this could be an easy offense for jason to remember and run and for tthe life of me I just can't figure out why it's so much easier for todd. I mean todd hasn't had to be that great the offense is just working for him. If he is protected it's nothing more than practice. Its INSANE.

NO, it's just that TC has the timing down and is able to hit the receivers as they break. JC is still learning and is passing AFTER the receivers break...which is leading to blown opportunites and INTs.

Ding!!!

WINNER!!!

Numerous quotes describe TC in practices as always knowing the system and the plays down so well that he can accurately critique players on the field very quickly. He can tell them when they're out of position, etc. As such, he is probably really helpful on the field, and is probably perfectly on the same page with the receivers as long as they run their routes correctly.

That, plus again his complete understanding of the play itself, is leading to the WRs seeming more open. Throw in a healed heel (ugh) of Santana and increasing health of the WRs in general (except McCardell I guess) and it's just more explanation.

His accuracy and knowledge has been great enough to negate the slower velocity.

This is the best answer for the phenomen:

From Dan LeBatard at the Miami Herald:

Q: dan how would you explain the redskins turn around? Its hard not to believe that the taylor tragedy has made them a better team.

jaxx, miami 12/24/07

A: oh, for the love of dear god, please tell me you are joking....what a false positive that is....first of all, they lost the first game at home after his death....secondly, jason campbell can't play....he held back those skill-position guys all year....i wrote after game 1 of miami's season that the dolphins had just lost to the worst qb on their schedule.....todd collins, by merely not being jason campbell, has brought out their skill guys......i've had this argument for weeks now with the guys at the station....kurt warner was a nobody, a grocery-store clerk....and his skill guys made him league mvp....i believe 50 qbs in the league could have been kurt warner with tory holt and isaac bruce and marshall faulk and orlando pace and az hakim......warner was a bag boy....i'll never understand why we ignore how much amazing skill guys can make even a bad qb good and a decent qb great......randall cunningham at 40 and out of the league running a tile business came back and was mvp because he had ridiculous skill guys in minnesota.....and it is a tribute to just how bad campbell is that he couldn't do anything with santana, randle-el, cooley and portis....but let's go ahead and say a funeral is the reason they're playing better....i'm always fighting this stuff in sports.....i'm a sports atheist in a world where you guys desperately want to believe in the abstracts.....the redskins lost at home to a bad bills team after that funeral....and they're winning now because they changed quarterbacks....i always wonder why sports fans so desperately want the intangibles to be reasons....if i told you a magic unicorn was responsible for the redskins winning, would you believe that? ....or how about that the redskins have been praying really hard? is that why they're winning?....it is just as silly as the idea that emotion or fate is the reason they're winning......

Dan Le Batard 12/24/07

Receivers look more open because Todd Collins is so familiar with this offense that he knows where everybody is. When he anticipates someone is gonna be open, he throws the ball quickly to him, thus limiting the possibility that he'll be sacked.

This is the best answer for the phenomen:

From Dan LeBatard at the Miami Herald:

PUH-LEASE! You surely are mistaken if you think that's the answer.

alright, one person on board the "BLC isnt insane" train. thank you haha!

Woah buddy, in no way am I saying your not insane by agreeing with you

Todd Collins is playing better football. He hits the open receivers.

If you went to any games over the past season than you would have been able to see the open receivers that you can't really see on TV that JC just missed. Todd is playing at an exceptionally high level.

JC is doing well, but he just won't be playing at a veteran level right away meaning we are still going to have some growing pains when he gets healthy. Until then, let's hope TC keeps playing out of his mind.

I don't think you're crazy. Mainly because of this:

NO, it's just that TC has the timing down and is able to hit the receivers as they break. JC is still learning and is passing AFTER the receivers break...which is leading to blown opportunites and INTs.

Al's passing game is a timing, throw the ball to a spot offense. The funny thing is, so was Spurrier's. But Spurrier could never give a damn about protecting his QB. It's almost like JC has a bit of Ramsey in him, where he depends on his arm to get him out of trouble. As JC progresses, he should be able to read a defense & know his check downs much faster & become more fluid.

I don't think you're crazy. Mainly because of this:

Al's passing game is a timing, throw the ball to a spot offense. The funny thing is, so was Spurrier's. But Spurrier could never give a damn about protecting his QB. It's almost like JC has a bit of Ramsey in him, where he depends on his arm to get him out of trouble. As JC progresses, he should be able to read a defense & know his check downs much faster & become more fluid.

Thanks Coach!

PUH-LEASE! You surely are mistaken if you think that's the answer.

I second that notion!

So what do you guys think of Le Batard's quote? Personally, I'm on the fence with Campbell. Sometimes he'll have a great game, and other times he'll do something where I think he's good but doesn't have "it" (like throwing three game-killing picks in two games). I would like to think that he'll progress like Collins has, and maybe one day we'll have the opportunity to see his canon of an arm throwing accurate passes, but part of me says he might always have trouble doing that. Considering the stats he put up between last year and this year, it doesn't seem like he's progressed that much.

Todd Collins is playing better football. He hits the open receivers.

If you went to any games over the past season than you would have been able to see the open receivers that you can't really see on TV that JC just missed. Todd is playing at an exceptionally high level.

JC is doing well, but he just won't be playing at a veteran level right away meaning we are still going to have some growing pains when he gets healthy. Until then, let's hope TC keeps playing out of his mind.

I completely agree. However, I know some guys are bashing JC but JC is still raw in a few areas. We know he has the ability (game vs. Detroit anyone?) but people still expect him to come out and play like he's a 10 year Elway vet. Right now, Collins is the right man for the job but JC is the future of the franchise.

NO, it's just that TC has the timing down and is able to hit the receivers as they break. JC is still learning and is passing AFTER the receivers break...which is leading to blown opportunites and INTs.

Yup, that and the fact that TC's ability to throw short and intermediate passes has opened up the deep part of the field again for Moss.

I still think JC is the future, but right now, TC's familiarity with the offense really shows. Hopefully JC is soaking this all in on the sidelines and in the film-room. It's really a great opportunity for him to grow watching TC run this offense.

So what do you guys think of Le Batard's quote? Personally, I'm on the fence with Campbell. Sometimes he'll have a great game, and other times he'll do something where I think he's good but doesn't have "it" (like throwing three game-killing picks in two games). I would like to think that he'll progress like Collins has, and maybe one day we'll have the opportunity to see his canon of an arm throwing accurate passes, but part of me says he might always have trouble doing that. Considering the stats he put up between last year and this year, it doesn't seem like he's progressed that much.

i worry too, but im not ready to give up on him yet. hes got the job next season, and if hes still doing the same stuff next season that he was doing this season, its time for him to go. we cant have two years in a row with iffy QB play from our supposed future.

alright, one person on board the "BLC isnt insane" train. thank you haha!

The interior of B Lloyd's locker have been especially wide open.

Yup, that and the fact that TC's ability to throw short and intermediate passes has opened up the deep part of the field again for Moss.

I still think JC is the future, but right now, TC's familiarity with the offense really shows. Hopefully JC is soaking this all in on the sidelines and in the film-room. It's really a great opportunity for him to grow watching TC run this offense.

i 100% agree with this. hopefully watching collins is teaching him a great deal of how this offense is run and what it really looks like when its done to perfection.

Here's what is happening. When Campbell sits in the pocket waiting for a receiver to get wide open, it doesn't happen. The open spot on the field occurs in a short space most of the time and Todd Collins throws the ball BEFORE the break. Many times this season I saw reeivers break open, Campbell threw the ball late and the corner closed and made the play right by the receiver.

No its not you. No its not the receivers. It's just that we have a good QB running the offense.