Hooper Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 First, a disclaimer: I think Gibbs is one of, it not the best coach in NFL History. I have been going to Redskins games for 25 years and I will stand by him no matter what. He is a first-class coach and a first-class human being. He could even start Brunell again and I would still stand by the guy. And I guess this whole post is moot if Coles is lying or if there was just some confusion between Coles and Gibbs. And there's a good chance that's just the case. Both those things said, from day one, Gibbs should have told Coles that if he didn't want to be a Redskin he would do his best to accomodate him, but only in a move that would help the Redskins. Coles should have no power in this situation. GIBBS AND/OR THE FRONT OFFICE SHOULD HAVE NEVER AGREED TO RELEASE COLES if he simply paid back his signing bonus -- that is ludicrous! The coach should have the power, not the player. Compare this whole fiasco to how Belicheck handled Ty Law, who was far, far more vocal in his desire to leave the Patriots than Coles ever was to leave the Skins. No one wants a malcontent on their team, and I fully respect Gibbs for only wanting true Redskins, but the fact is, in the salary cap era, you simply can't cut someone or trade someone because they're unhappy (or simply want more deep balls thrown their way). The hard truth is sometimes the best decision for the team is for you to just tell the digruntled player to man up and play ball, especially when you're dealing with someone like LC, who has never been anything but a true professional on the field. I fully expect to get ripped for this post, and maybe I deserve it. Maybe Gibbs never told Coles he would simply release him -- I sure as hell hope not. But situations like this, they happen every week in the NFL, you just don't hear about them because coaches just tell the players under contract to shut up and play ball (or more likely just ignore them). Gibbs heart is no doubt in the right place, but I can't help but think this whole thing should have been handled so damn differently. Actually, maybe I should be venting about the front office and not Gibbs. I mean, after all he's done for the Redskins, Gibbs deserves as much slack as anyone on the planet. But as far as Snyder and especially Cerrato go, well there's a reason we are constantly the talk of the NFL (and not for the right reasons) and they are it. I have faith in Gibbs. Total faith. I loved, LOVED how hard the team was playing at the end of the season. Who knows, maybe he wants Coles out even more than Coles wants out. But even if that's the case, this whole thing could have been handled so much better. Personally, I would love to see Gibbs and Coles sit down and work things out -- and it could happen. There's so much optimism on this board and that's great -- I'm often the biggest cheerleader around. But in this case, well I just can't help but be a little negative. I'm sorry if that pisses some folks off. I pray for the day when we're known for our seasons again, not our off-seasons. Go Skins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hands11 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I agree and have already posted as much. If we cant work something out to our advantage. Keep him. As for the rest. It because we dont have a real GM between the owner and the coach. We have these blended possitions where the Owner is more then and owner and the coach is more then the coach. I dont know what the guy inbetween is other then confused what his job is. Listen to Doc and the other. They all say this. Its 3 seperate jobs. The coach should be the good cop, leaning tword the players and the GM is hands off and machincal about putting the puzzle together. You need the seperation and checks and balances. What structure did we have last time we were successful. Last time Gibbs was successful ? Gibbs is doing fine, give the structure that is place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chet06 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Have said this a month after Gibbs was hired....He is not a very good GM in my opinion.. Probably the best coach around but he and Danny will learn that there is reason why GM and coach are two different positions. All the free agents we got on the D side of the ball were probably all scouted out by Greg Williams. Of course Portis was Gibbs' pick but he is a no brainer. Greg Williams brings in a bunch of no names that produced. I wish Gibbs could just focus on coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chet06 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Gibbs had some real disasters like Desmond Howard, Bobby Wilson, Andre Johnson, we let McCardell go after his rookie superbowl season with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REEGSKINS Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 his only big mistake is boonell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTaylor22 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 I think another will be not signing pierce here in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Thats not on Gibbs that is on Peirce looking for more money than he is worth . He has had 1 good year and is looking for a major payday NOT A TEAM PLAYER. Same goes for the other 18FA who couldn't reach agreements... this could be the worst offseason ever . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadskin11 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by hands11 I agree and have already posted as much. If we cant work something out to our advantage. Keep him. As for the rest. It because we dont have a real GM between the owner and the coach. We have these blended possitions where the Owner is more then and owner and the coach is more then the coach. I dont know what the guy inbetween is other then confused what his job is. Listen to Doc and the other. They all say this. Its 3 seperate jobs. The coach should be the good cop, leaning tword the players and the GM is hands off and machincal about putting the puzzle together. You need the seperation and checks and balances. I agree with hands11. If we can't get a good trade, which would be very difficult given the limited time we've got, we need to keep him. He'll play hard, and he'll come around when he sees the progress we're going to make this year. Besides, it's Gibbs, king of working with his players. That said... I also agree that you've got to recognize the necessity of a GM. At the very least, you wouldn't have this sort of situation where the coach has to play bad cop as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Cant blame the other players for wanting more money. Most here ask would take a salary increase any day of the week if it was offered. Especially the type of increases these guys will be getting. As for Coles, I say he stays and plays. Winning will cure all....and I belive this year, we will win. I think this is the way this thing plays out in the end because I just dont see any other way for it to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 OK, What happens when we give 1 or 2 players whatever they want at all costs to stay? Then what do the other 52 players think? That would disrupt the team much more for longer then letting a few selfish players go that can be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 :gus:x2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 tick tick tick........4 years and counting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by TK-IV II I :gus:x2 NOW you know how it feels to be a blonde!! :laugh: Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by jimster OK, What happens when we give 1 or 2 players whatever they want at all costs to stay? Then what do the other 52 players think? That would disrupt the team much more for longer then letting a few selfish players go that can be replaced. If you are refering to me not blaming the other players for wanting more money then hopefully you misunderstood my post. I was just trying to say that these guys that are free agents have to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. They have a short period of time to earn a lot of money and they have to really consider whats in their best interest regardless of how they fans feel. After they sign a contract (such as Coles has done) then they should honor the contract and be team player. That said, I really do hope that Pierce and Smoot decide that being a Redskin is in their best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Sigh. I hate the offseason. * Sad part is I'll probably think about this andd come back to the thread. :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Buck....so teams who sign long-term contracts should keep players for the duration of the contract? i.e., honor their end of the deal as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Both those things said, from day one, Gibbs should have told Coles that if he didn't want to be a Redskin he would do his best to accomodate him, but only in a move that would help the Redskins. Coles should have no power in this situation. GIBBS AND/OR THE FRONT OFFICE SHOULD HAVE NEVER AGREED TO RELEASE COLES if he simply paid back his signing bonus -- that is ludicrous! How do you know any of this did or didn't happen? Coles wants to be released as a FA, so his agent spreads some misinformation and the Redskins are in a bit of a jam. We have no way of knowing that the Skins made a deal w/Coles that he'd be able to split in FA if he gave back 5mil; we just have Nunyo on that. I personally don't believe that such a deal was struck. I think perhaps the Skins were relating to Coles' agent some of the difficulties in letting Coles go (via release or trade) to see if, as a starting point, Coles was willing to part with the cash. I don't think any agreement was struck ever, but I do think the agent would like to have his client cut loose so he can go wherever he wants & negotiate a new deal. Let's not assume what Gibbs did or didn't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Money Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Nice Gus Ferrotte imitation Bub and Tk! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fpickering Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 Originally posted by KingTaylor36 I think another will be not signing pierce here in the next few days. Disagree. Screw Pierce. He is as good as gone. LB is a commodity. It is not like he is of Lavar or Lewis stature. We can find a capable replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Originally posted by fansince62 Buck....so teams who sign long-term contracts should keep players for the duration of the contract? i.e., honor their end of the deal as well? You have to look at the language of the contract. What does it allow? If a team guarantees money, has a no trade clause or agreed to a no cut clause (which I have never heard of but would assume its possible), then yes they should have to honor it. But, you dont see teams saying, after they agreed to the contract that "this player didnt play worth 5 million so we are only going pay him 2 million this year". They do what the language in the contract allows. Look at Brunnell...He surely didnt earn what his contract was worth this year did he? Did he get paid? Yes...Will he get paid this year? Yes... They will do what the contract allows A more plain and simple answer would be fulfill what the language in your contract says you must fulfull. Dont go and cry about it because you dont like the agreement you made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
End2round2sanders Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Blame brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hands11 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by hands11 I agree and have already posted as much. If we cant work something out to our advantage. Keep him. As for the rest. It because we dont have a real GM between the owner and the coach. We have these blended possitions where the Owner is more then and owner and the coach is more then the coach. I dont know what the guy inbetween is other then confused what his job is. Listen to Doc and the other. They all say this. Its 3 seperate jobs. The coach should be the good cop, leaning tword the players and the GM is hands off and machincal about putting the puzzle together. You need the seperation and checks and balances. What structure did we have last time we were successful. Last time Gibbs was successful ? Gibbs is doing fine, give the structure that is place. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48373-2005Feb23.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGHEAVEN3 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Give him a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hands11 Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Originally posted by HOGHEAVEN3 Give him a chance I like Gibbs. Actually Synder is good owner also. Williams is a great D coach. We got the Booooggs. I just wish we had Casserly. Thats were it all started. Synder got ride of a good GM that know the team and players because he wanted to play with his new toy. Imagine. Synder as an owner and checkbook Casserly as the GM Gibbs as the head coach Williams as head D coach Sorry, I would take that anyday over what we have. Had Casserly never been forced out, we would not have stuggled throught the Danny learning curve. Casserly left us with those 2 #1 where we got Samuels and Lavar. We were in great cap shape. Synder should have watched and learned, not jumped in with both feet to learn. I would like a full time GM. This is what the Wiz did by getting Ernie and look how nice they are coming along. Ernie added some pieces but mostly, he keep the team together. He didnt rush out before the trade deadline this year. He is smart enough to wait it out and see what he has. Good GMs add stability, something we have been lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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