Illegitimate war = record deficit...again

[Mad Mike]

No Links to 9/11 or the terrorists. Saddam was no threat. Don't mind the man behind the curtain.

Is it proof? No. But it sure as hell shows how Saddam felt about 9/11. Somone please tell me again how Saddam would never help bin Laden.

[Sarge]

Originally posted by IbleedBurgundyNGold

I just don't buy you argument, and neither does a panel set up to find out if what you claim was true. Speaking of things that you might remember...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/"9/11 panel sees no link between Iraq, al-Qaida"

These headlines were splattered on every paper in the country this past June. So please explain how a war in Iraq is the logical answer to a terrorist attack perpetrated by mostly Saudis and no Iraqis.

And the difference between WWII and this war is that we started this war with a country that has not made a attack on us. The fact that I have to explain that to you is what really is scary.

So tell me ( like it hasn't been discussed before) who are w threatening with military power right now?

Say "Iran' and Syria Sarge"

Very good, young Skywalker

Now, where are Syria and Iran in relation to Iraq?

Who is sitting on the Southwestern border of Syria?

Who is sitting on the western and eastern border of Iran?

A little strategic positioning don't you think? A little FORESIGHT maybe, yes?

[Thiebear]

This is what were fixing:

Im the one that did the pssstt from DrewFark linked to the journal. 6 months ago they said 570 billion.

Wait a few weeks, it will change...

http://www.boreme.com/bm/JAN05/a/vw-suicide-bomber/fr.htm

[E-Dog Night]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

LOL - ok, I think that's a fitting end to this thread. I have work to do. If this thing is still kicking by the time I get home tonight I'll pop in and rebut.

[KevinthePRF]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Was it over when the Iraqi's destroyed the twin towers?

Ironic comparison, but I did love that movie.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Hooper

Please. Do a google search on Lawrence Lindsey -- the man was fired.

This is from a Robert Novak column. We all know how much he hates Bush.

"A footnote: Lawrence Lindsey, fired as national economic adviser at the same time O'Neill was let go, has remained a Bush loyalist. His accurate public prediction of the Iraq war's cost was one of the reasons for Lindsey's dismissal, but he has resisted the temptation to say I-told-you-so."

I ran Google as you requested, and I see that he RESIGNED.

In fact there is exact text of O'Neils resignation letter in the link.

Have fun with that.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/shakeup_12-06-02.html

[Kilmer17]

A perfect comparison Kevin, we went to war with Germany. We went to war with Iraq. The difference is that Iraq actually DID attack us on numerous occasions, though not on 9/11. The Germans did not bomb Pearl, yet we attacked them for their alliance with Japan.

[Mad Mike]

Iraqi terrorist training camps found in Iraqi Freedom

http://www.gulfinvestigations.net/source76.html?PHPSESSID=53ee155b4ef4615611767ddd8b90a56d

CENTCOM Operation Iraqi Freedom Briefing - 06 April 2003

http://www.gulfinvestigations.net/document390.html

Brigadier General Vincent Brooks, CENTCOM Deputy Director of Operations: "There was a raid last night by the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force. What they raided was a training camp near Samanpak (sp). And you can see the explosion along on the map near Samanpak (sp). This raid occurred in response to information that had been gained by coalition forces from some foreign fighters we encountered from other countries, not Iraq. And we believe that this camp had been used to train these foreign fighters in terror tactics. It is now destroyed."

Q. Will Adams, ABC... "you mentioned the training camp near Samanpac (sp) and you said information from foreign fighters had helped you to identify that. Are you saying that there are foreign terrorist training camps in Iraq ? "

A. "Now, with regard to Samanpak (sp), that's just one of a number of examples we've found where there is training activity happening inside of Iraq. It reinforces the likelihood of links between his regime and external terrorist organizations, clear links with common interests. Some of these fighters came from Sudan, some from Egypt, and some from other places, and we've killed a number of them and we've captured a number of them, and that's where some of this information came from."

Q (Off mike) --- Australia. Can you just give us some more information about this attack in Salman Pak ? You mentioned there were several other foreign fighters. Can you give us some more details about those nationalities, and what was in the camp to characterize it as a terrorist training facility ?

A. The -- there are a number of nations that were involved. I don't know all of them. I know that we had some from Egypt, some from Sudan, in people that we captured. And that was before the raid -- that gave us information about the raid. The nature of the work being done by some of those people that we captured, their inferences to the type of training they received -- all these things give us the impression that there is terrorist training that was conducted at Salman Pak. We also found some other things there. We found some tanks -- and destroyed them. We found some armored personnel carriers, and destroyed them in small numbers. We destroyed some buildings that were used for command and control, and some other buildings that were used for morale and welfare. We destroyed the complex. All of that, when you roll it together, their reports where they're from, why they might be here, tell us that there is still a linkage clearly between this regime and terrorism, and it's something we want to make sure we break.

Q (Off mike) ?

A. There's no indications of specific organizations that I am aware of inside of that. We may still find it. As with all operations we conduct into a place, we look for more information after the operation is complete. We'll pull documents out of it, and see what those documents say, if there's any links or indications. We'll look and see if there are any persons that are recovered that may not be Iraqi. All that is detailed and deliberate work that happens after the fact.

CENTCOM Operation Iraqi Freedom Briefing - 23 March 2003

http://www.gulfinvestigations.net/document350.html?PHPSESSID=77570aa3f8181d907a8f5575ca94b745

Q Do you -- Matko Berzat (ph), Italian News Agency Anzer. Did you strike other terrorist targets like the camp of last Friday ? And did you find any link -- any evidence of link between the Iraqi regime and terrorist organizations ?

GEN. ABIZAID : Well, again, the discussion about links between the Iraqi and terrorist organizations are very clear cut , and we know that they exist, and I don't know that that's really something appropriate for me to comment on.

Nope. No links to terrorism in Iraq. It was an illegitimate war.

[Thiebear]

By the way: Its considered TROLL because again: You dont put your opinion in the title.. Rules are you use the title of the article so as not to LURE people in...

Then you put your opinion in the thread itself..

Thanks.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by IbleedBurgundyNGold

I just don't buy you argument, and neither does a panel set up to find out if what you claim was true. Speaking of things that you might remember...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/"9/11 panel sees no link between Iraq, al-Qaida"

These headlines were splattered on every paper in the country this past June. So please explain how a war in Iraq is the logical answer to a terrorist attack perpetrated by mostly Saudis and no Iraqis.

And the difference between WWII and this war is that we started this war with a country that has not made a attack on us. The fact that I have to explain that to you is what really is scary.

So are you admitting that you blindly read and believed headlines that consited of out of context statements for the 9/11 commission report? That;s good, because the entire report invalidates your stance that Iraq had no Al Queida links. It's foolish to even try and make those claims any longer!

I can buy the take that Iraq and 9/11 were not linked directly, but to twist it into no Iraq/Al Queida/Terrorism in general is simply wrong.

[Jay Master Jay]

Is that where all the money for Social Security is going??

[Hooper]

He resigned just like O'Neil resigned. No one gets "fired" in politics -- you get forced out.

For godsakes, even Robert Novak wrote that he got fired.

[Cskin]

And all of those opposed to the war continue to forget the UN resolutions Iraq simply ignored... the ones about disarming and disclosing/destroying his banned weapons. They forget about the inspectors being thrown out of the country. They forget about the World's view, nations like China...Russia... and others, who believed that Hussein had reconstituted his weapons program. They forget about the warning from Putin, president of Russia, that Hussein was planning to attack the US. They forget about the targeting of US airplanes over the "No Fly Zones". They forget about their own leaders... senators... house representatives... and even previous Presidents who warned of Husseins WMDs. None of that matters, conveniently omitted, because it's George W Bush in the White House and not Al Gore or John Kerry.

But... to the Left... he was an innocent pristine lamb... slaughtered by the big bad wolf. :doh:

[Kilmer17]

The first job of any political appointee (including Cabinet memebers) is to sign an undated resignation letter.

Hooper's right in that aspect.

[KevinthePRF]

Originally posted by Jay Master Jay

Is that where all the money for Social Security is going??

Actually no, the money that was suppose to cover social security has been borrowed to maintain Bush's tax cuts. Buy now, pay later, it's the American way.

[seamus]

Originally posted by Cskin

And all of those opposed to the war continue to forget the UN resolutions Iraq simply ignored... the ones about disarming and disclosing/destroying his banned weapons. They forget about the inspectors being thrown out of the country. They forget about the World's view, nations like China...Russia... and others, who believed that Hussein had reconstituted his weapons program. They forget about the warning from Putin, president of Russia, that Hussein was planning to attack the US. They forget about the targeting of US airplanes over the "No Fly Zones". They forget about their own leaders... senators... house representatives... and even previous Presidents who warned of Husseins WMDs. None of that matters, conveniently omitted, because it's George W Bush in the White House and not Al Gore or John Kerry.

But... to the Left... he was an innocent pristine lamb... slaughtered by the big bad wolf. :doh:

We did not forget any of those things, but people like Kerry were aware of the tens of thousands of innocent lives that have been slaughtered needlessly. We wanted to pursue all possible avenues that could have solved our goals without needless blood shed.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Hooper

He resigned just like O'Neil resigned. No one gets "fired" in politics -- you get forced out.

For godsakes, even Robert Novak wrote that he got fired.

I don't care what anyone "writes"......what actually happenned? Resignation (albeit with pressure, it doesnt matter in the end) or Fired, as you claim.

He resigned. Period....he was not fired. Period....

If I was approached at my office and told that it would probably be best for my career future if I resigned, rather than wait out the long process of potential termination in the future, and I agree to resign.

What did I do? I resigned. I cannot tell future employers that I was "forced out" or "fired" in any way, shape, or form.

Face facts, you are wrong, and even relying on an inaccurate statement form a conservative pundit, will not make you correct.

[Hooper]

Oh, geez I give up. Lawrence Lindsey was forced out, just like O'Neil was, and everyone knows it.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

The first job of any political appointee (including Cabinet memebers) is to sign an undated resignation letter.

Hooper's right in that aspect.

He is right, only that pressure may have been exerted, not that anyone was fired.

If a cabinet member agrees to this in advance, it's even more indication that they understand that they may need to resign if it is the best answer. Doesnt make it a termination involuntarily.

The original statement was that he was fired because he called the correct expense of the Iraq war.

1. He resigned, wasnt fired

2. He resigned many months before our troops ever even hit the ground in Iraq.

3. Most feel his resignation was more in line with disagreements over the Bush tax cuts, not anything to do with Iraq.

I won't back off of this one, I'm correct.

[KevinthePRF]

Originally posted by Kilmer17

A perfect comparison Kevin, we went to war with Germany. We went to war with Iraq. The difference is that Iraq actually DID attack us on numerous occasions, though not on 9/11. The Germans did not bomb Pearl, yet we attacked them for their alliance with Japan.

We went to war with Germany because they were invading other countries and was on the verge of controlling all of Europe.

I never threw a fit when we went to war with Iraq for invading Kuwait 13 yrs ago.

That's the closest comparison I can make, I can't make the same comparison this time around.

Now can we please stop comparing the real world to Animal House. :laugh:

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by Hooper

Oh, geez I give up. Lawrence Lindsey was forced out, just like O'Neil was, and everyone knows it.

Good start,

When and Why was he "forced out"

[Brown 43]

Bleed, go to Canada! See ya!

[Mad Mike]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas

So are you admitting that you blindly read and believed headlines that consited of out of context statements for the 9/11 commission report? That;s good, because the entire report invalidates your stance that Iraq had no Al Queida links. It's foolish to even try and make those claims any longer!

I can buy the take that Iraq and 9/11 were not linked directly, but to twist it into no Iraq/Al Queida/Terrorism in general is simply wrong.

Let's help him out...

* From the 9/11 report: “With the Sudanese regime acting as intermediary, Bin Ladin himself met with a senior Iraqi intelligence officer in Khartoum in late 1994 or early 1995. Bin Ladin is said to have asked for space to establish training camps, as well as assistance in procuring weapons, but there is no evidence that Iraq responded to this request.” (Pg 61)

* The report continues: “In July, an Iraqi delegation traveled to Afghanistan to meet first with the Taliban and then with Bin Ladin. Sources reported that one, or perhaps both, of these meetings was apparently arranged through Bin Ladin’s Egyptian deputy, Zawahiri, who had ties of his own to the Iraqis. In 1998, Iraq was under intensifying U.S. pressure, which culminated in a series of large air attacks in December.75” ......“Similar meetings between Iraqi officials and Bin Ladin or his aides may have occurred in 1999 during a period of some reported strains with the Taliban. According to the reporting, Iraqi officials offered Bin Ladin a safe haven in Iraq. Bin Ladin declined, apparently judging that his circumstances in Afghanistan remained more favorable than the Iraqi alternative. The reports describe friendly contacts and indicate some common themes in both sides’ hatred of the United States. ” (Pg 66)

And Ibleed... follow the facts. Iraq was a major supporter of terrorism, an enemy of the United States and he did support those who attacked americans as well as attempting the assasination of a former US president.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78073&perpage=15&display=&highlight=A%20fact%20based%20argument&pagenumber=1

[KevinthePRF]

Originally posted by Mad Mike

Let's help him out...

And Ibleed... follow the facts. Iraq was a major supporter of terrorism, an enemy of the United States and he did support those who attacked americans as well as attempting the assasination of a former US president.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78073&perpage=15&display=&highlight=A%20fact%20based%20argument&pagenumber=1

Mad Mike, you've cerimoniously walked this road before and your sources always lead back to the CIA. The same CIA that gave Bush the intel go ahead because Saddam (slam dunk is the term) had stockpiles of WMDs. And from yellowcake to 2005, the CIAs intel has been listening to whispers in the dark at best thus far in the Middle East.

[Hooper]

You're playing a game of semantics and I'm never going to win that.

To use your example -- your boss comes up to you at work and says "You gotta go. We can do it the easy way, have you resign -- it will look a little better for you that way -- or I can fire you." Either way, you lost your job because your boss didn't want you around.

I know I'm not going to make any headway with you -- you seem to believe that the Bush Administration was perfectly happy with Lindsey and he resigned just for the hell of it. That's your opinion -- and it's one I don't think even the most conservative posters on this board would agree with. I could be wrong, of course.

Peace.