A Look Back...2004 NFL Draft

[[[ghost]]]

seeing as the year is done, i thought i'd do a little flashback thread to the debate between who should we pick with out #5 pick. obviously, we picked sean taylor, who i think was one of the most productive picks. plenty of people wanted him on this board, and even though he played like a rook against dallas, acted like a rook against green bay (DUI), other than that, he's a monster. a ball hawk if you will. one of the other contenders was KII, but he's voided because of his injury. the other two major wants were either kenechi udeze or tommie harris. Huh? what in the blue hell have they done? lets see:

# 95 Kenechi Udeze

Position: DE

Height: 6-3

Weight: 281

Born: 03/05/1983

College: USC

NFL Experience: Rookie

Minnesota Vikings

the man had 5 sacks, and a total of 25 tackles. bravo.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493098

on to tommie harris

# 91 Tommie Harris

Position: DT

Height: 6-2

Weight: 300

Born: 04/29/1983

College: Oklahoma

NFL Experience: Rookie

28 tackles. 3.5 sacks. woopdeedoo bazzle.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492957

and now...Mr. Taylor

# 36 Sean Taylor

Position: FS

Height: 6-2

Weight: 231

Born: 04/01/1983

College: Miami (Fla.)

NFL Experience: Rookie

60 tackles. 1 sack. 4 ints. not to mention 2 forced fumbles. sounds pretty damn good to me.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493084

thinkin of it now, i think we made the best, most ass kickin decision out of all our possible choices. what do ya'll think?

[Oldskool]

Udeze wasn’t a starter for a good portion of the year and has played with a partially torn labrum.

I never thought Harris was going to be anything special.

But let’s look at players who were drafted after Mr. Taylor that outperformed him..

Wilfork had 42 tackles playing part time behind Traylor. That’s not bad.

Roy Williams – 54 rec 817 yards 8 TD’s

Ben Roethlisberger – nuff said

John Vilma – 105 tackles, 3 INT, DROY

Lee Evans – 48 rec, 843 yards 9 TD

Mike Clayton 80 rec, 1193, 7TD

D.J. Williams 106 tackles, 1FF, 1 INT

Will Smith 42 tackles, 6FF, playing behind Darren Howard

So if you wish to compare rookies to rookies, Taylor looks like a middle of the pack rookie, doesn’t he? There have definitely been several 1st year players that have outshined Taylor.

Taylor, in no way, has lived up to his hype. Was he solid? Sure. Has he had problems adjusting to playing in space, just like I said he would? Yup.

Did we pick the right pick? Ask me in 2-3 years from now and I’ll let you know.

[Warhead36]

Roy Williams – 54 rec 817 yards 8 TD’s

Ben Roethlisberger – nuff said

John Vilma – 105 tackles, 3 INT, DROY

Lee Evans – 48 rec, 843 yards 9 TD

Mike Clayton 80 rec, 1193, 7TD

D.J. Williams 106 tackles, 1FF, 1 INT

Will Smith 42 tackles, 6FF, playing behind Darren Howard

Bad argument because none of those guys were going to be Redskins anyways because there was no way in hell we'd take a LB or WR.

Oh and Big Ben is mad overrated. He passes the ball like 20 times a game. The Steelers win games with their D and bruising running game. All he does is manage the game.

Taylor was, IMO, the best rookie in the draft. He's a playmaker and a game changer and forces teams to gameplan against him.

[RedDawg36]

What exactly was Taylor's hype?

What do you expect a FREE SAFETY to put up, in terms of numbers?

His numbers look good to me..not to mention the multitude of great plays he has made.

And sure, he's made mistakes, just like all other rookies have. I guarantee you Vilma has made more mistakes at his relative position than Taylor has at his.

The problem is, at least when comparing them, that you don't see the effect of a linebacker's mistake when you have so many other guys around the ball. It's much more explicit when a guy playing center field misses an assignment (see; Michael Boulware VS. St. Louis).

Taylor was the highest pick defensive player, and IMO (not biased...I don't really care to be biased about these kind of things, just objective) has had the biggest impact of any D-Rookie. Vilma has been SOLID...a very nice addition to what seems to be a good LB core...same with Williams. Taylor has stood out...

[Oldskool]

Originally posted by Warhead36

Bad argument because none of those guys were going to be Redskins anyways because there was no way in hell we'd take a LB or WR.

Oh and Big Ben is mad overrated. He passes the ball like 20 times a game. The Steelers win games with their D and bruising running game. All he does is manage the game.

Taylor was, IMO, the best rookie in the draft. He's a playmaker and a game changer and forces teams to gameplan against him.

Really? Cos FS wasnt a need. We took Taylor cos he was the "BPA" in the draft. Apparently this year he wasnt. So my point IS valid.

Originally posted by RedDawg36

What exactly was Taylor's hype?

What do you expect a FREE SAFETY to put up, in terms of numbers?

Better than what Taylor put up this year obviously.

Originally posted by RedDawg36

Taylor was the highest pick defensive player, and IMO (not biased...I don't really care to be biased about these kind of things, just objective) has had the biggest impact of any D-Rookie. Vilma has been SOLID...a very nice addition to what seems to be a good LB core...same with Williams. Taylor has stood out...

Please don’t insult my intelligence by saying that. If you’re going to try to feed me a cowpie and tell me its steak, at least change your name. The 36 at the end of your name is kind of a give away.

[PeanutTillman]

You guys should know better than to define DL by stats, especially DT's like Harris.

[Montilar]

Oh, if you are gong to put the stats up put ALL that stats..

you mention Taylor's forced fumbles for example.

do you mention any for the others? Udeze seems to be missing some stats....

You taint your argument with your obvious bias. leaving out some stats to make your argument.....

Udeze

Oh, nfl.com had Udeze with 36 (THIRTY-SIX) tackles. Not 25 as you say. 25 solo, 11 assisted. 5 sacks, 1 pass defensed, 1 fumble forced. I believe 1 recovered (against the skins was it?)

Wilfork

42 total tackles, 27 solo, 15 assisted., 2 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 2 fumble recoveries

And that was with the Pats who already had a strong DL so he was rotated.

Given that a draft of either of these would of been via a trade down (and we could of had BOTH of these for the price of Taylor..... Would the combo of these two be worth one of Taylor.... I think it'd be pretty even....

A safety SHOULD have more tackles and Int's. and passes defensed.

[PeanutTillman]

The Homerism, oh the Homerism.

Jonathan Vilma, Micheal Boulware, Madieu Williams, Will Smith, Tommie Harris, DUNTA ROBERTSON (you forget his 5 ints) Chris Gamble, DJ Williams and Vince Wilfork all had better year than Taylor.

[PeanutTillman]

Originally posted by Montilar

Oh, if you are gong to put the stats up put ALL that stats..

you mention Taylor's forced fumbles for example.

do you mention any for the others? Udeze seems to be missing some stats....

You taint your argument with your obvious bias. leaving out some stats to make your argument.....

Udeze

Oh, nfl.com had Udeze with 36 (THIRTY-SIX) tackles. Not 25 as you say. 25 solo, 11 assisted. 5 sacks, 1 pass defensed, 1 fumble forced. I believe 1 recovered (against the skins was it?)

Wilfork

42 total tackles, 27 solo, 15 assisted., 2 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 2 fumble recoveries

And that was with the Pats who already had a strong DL so he was rotated.

Given that a draft of either of these would of been via a trade down (and we could of had BOTH of these for the price of Taylor..... Would the combo of these two be worth one of Taylor.... I think it'd be pretty even....

A safety SHOULD have more tackles and Int's. and passes defensed.

DONT DEFINE DL BY STATS. TED WASHINGTON WON THE SUPER BOWL FOR THE PATS BUT DIDNT RECORD 1 TACKLE IN THAT GAME.

[Montilar]

DONT DEFINE DL BY STATS. TED WASHINGTON WON THE SUPER BOWL FOR THE PATS BUT DIDNT RECORD 1 TACKLE IN THAT GAME.

I didn't.

And lose the caps, you look like a fool.

I posted their season stats. which were wrong, misleading, or missing in the original post.... yet provided for in Taylor's stats....

The case is, both had good rookie DL seasons. Like Taylor had a good rookie safety season. Is one better than the other? Maybe. maybe not.

But two (Wilfork/Udeze, which we could of had) will likely be better than one...

Not knocking Taylor. He proved to be a good player. but so did many of the others that were discussed as trade down options.

[Mr. S]

other players did better than Taylor, but he still had 60 tackles, 4 INT's, and another 2-3 that he dropped, definitely more tipped passes. I agree that other defensive players did more, but I think Taylor contributed just as much to our team or more. Vilma deserved DROY, but DJ Williams was just a solid contributor, like Taylor, same as Dunta Robinson, Udeze, Smith, Vilfork. I say he's just as good and we did make the right choice.

Taylor definitely improved in the last 8 games of the season.

[Hooper]

Ex-skin Eddie Mason on Taylor --

"Another reason LA might be expendable? The play of number 36. How many of those guys do you need on defense? This guy, Sean Taylor , is phenomenal. It takes a lot to impress me as a player but he is a true football player. He can hit, he can cover. I watched his feet lots of times in coverage and he's so explosive and gets to the point of contact and he can react. In a goal-line situation against Minnesota, he hit Mo Williams and drove him back. Then on another play he outleaped Randy Moss . Not only that, he crushes his head in the dirt. Think about the receiver screen they threw to Moss and he comes up and Bam! and stops people before the first down and when he hits people they stop on impact. He's bringing everything to them. Sean is that kind of alpha male on defense and how many of them do you need on defense?"

Couldn't have said it better myself. He will be the best defensive player in the NFC next year -- we're talking Ronnie Lott but with cornerback speed.

Based on his performance the second half of the season, I would take this kid without hesitation if we had to do it all over again.

[bricucci]

Lets get one thing strait. Sean Taylor will be the most dominant player on the defensive side of the ball in that draft, no questions. Do you think the Skins would trade ST for any of the players you mentioned, the answer is no! He made some mistakes this year, what rookies dont, but just his presence over the middle made the skins a better team. He is a game changer and will only get better! I would have to Give Gibbs and Skins a b + on their draft this year. 2 players made significant contributions and 1 of their 2 7th rounders started 1 game and probably would have started out the season had he not got hurt. Not bad Mr Gibbs!!!

[Truant]

Originally posted by PeanutTillman

The Homerism, oh the Homerism.

Jonathan Vilma, Micheal Boulware, Madieu Williams, Will Smith, Tommie Harris, DUNTA ROBERTSON (you forget his 5 ints) Chris Gamble, DJ Williams and Vince Wilfork all had better year than Taylor.

How many of those are first alternates to the probowl? :puke:

[skinsfan93]

Man, calm down a little guys...seems like people are pretty adamant about this thread.

Here's my take...Taylor did very well as a rookie. Not only was his stats pretty good for a guy who didn't start every game, but he also was an intimidator out there.

As far as the defensive lineman, all three (Udeze, Harris, Wilfork) were pretty solid rookies as well. I think Wilfork will be the best of them all down the road. People are saying he's a beast.

While we did take the "best player available", we still weren't going to take a wideout or a qb. If we were stuck and had to choose one, we probably would have traded down...so that argument is pretty null and void.

I think Taylor is going to be a superstar. If he gets his attitude under control, he'll be easily compared to the great safety's ever in this league....maybe even better than Ronnie Lott.

[0mega]

Originally posted by Hooper

Ex-skin Eddie Mason on Taylor --

"Another reason LA might be expendable? The play of number 36. How many of those guys do you need on defense? This guy, Sean Taylor , is phenomenal. It takes a lot to impress me as a player but he is a true football player. He can hit, he can cover. I watched his feet lots of times in coverage and he's so explosive and gets to the point of contact and he can react. In a goal-line situation against Minnesota, he hit Mo Williams and drove him back. Then on another play he outleaped Randy Moss . Not only that, he crushes his head in the dirt. Think about the receiver screen they threw to Moss and he comes up and Bam! and stops people before the first down and when he hits people they stop on impact. He's bringing everything to them. Sean is that kind of alpha male on defense and how many of them do you need on defense?"

Couldn't have said it better myself. He will be the best defensive player in the NFC next year -- we're talking Ronnie Lott but with cornerback speed.

Based on his performance the second half of the season, I would take this kid without hesitation if we had to do it all over again.

Word.

Perhaps I'm somewhat biased since I was in favor of drafting Taylor in the first place, but he was exactly what our defense needed -- an intimidator. Everyone -- TEs, FBs, HBs, WRs, know that they better watch out for #36 once the ball is in their hands, because he's looking to absolutely destroy them -- as he proved himself capable of doing repeatedly this year. I'm convinced that he'll be a consistant 6-8 int, 3-4 ff, 4-6 sack, 80-90 tackle a year guy for us, terrorizing the line of scrimmage, and ball-hawking in the secondary. But more importantly, he gives us that seek & destroy mentality out there, that has already gotten inside the heads of two of the best receivers in the game (Moss & TO).

Does anyone honestly believe that Joe Gibbs actually considered drafting any QB, let alone Roethlisbergher? What reason would he have thad to do that?

LBs? We were looking pretty stacked by that time, though we perhaps didn't realize the quality of the depth we had in Pierce. I don't think Vilma was a viable option considering our offseason aquisitions.

Tommy Harris had a great rookie season -- stats don't tell the whole story sometimes (ie Sean Taylor :cool: ) He's going to be a stud. Wilfork is a stud.

WRs? I think our coaching staff/FO had a lot of confidence in our unit heading into this season. It's actually a need now, but who would've predicted that? I actually thought that would be our stongest unit on the team heading into the season.

I don't think anyone will regret the Sean Taylor pick as we watch him progress and wreck havoc on opposing offenses for years to come.

:helmet:

[redblazer00]

Ask Pittsburg who was the better rookie between Sean Taylor and Vilma! I'm betting they vote Sean Taylor on that one from word after the game we had verse them this season. Taylor shows up in every game and lays the wood. Making recievers think twice about coming over the middle in fear of as LaVar calls him the "Grim Reaper".

The only true gage on a player impact is from other players and I know all the teams we played knew who and what Sean Taylor stood for. Thats why he was an 1st alt to Pro Bowl.

[TMat184]

Having a chance to watch Sean Taylor routinely playing for the University of Miami and also watching him play in a Skins uni has made me pay attention to the safety position for the first time in a long time. Greg Williams has a complicated scheme whichs takes awhile for (especially a rooke) a player to get acclimated with. Add on top of that the guy didn't play much at all earlier in the year and I think he did one helluva job for us as a rook. Listen, this guy is an absolute athletic freak, as physically talented as anyone in last years draft or this years draft. He was already showing dominance in the last 7-8 games of the year and will only improve greatly in the offseason and more time in this system. His in-game awareness was improving throughout the year and he should be completely acclimated with the pro game by early-mid next year. I was praying we'd take him before the draft and I'm as happy with Taylor as I could have been with any draft pick. We are VERY lucky to get to watch this guy bring pain to opponents and blanket recievers for the rest of his career. Hes a main reason things are going to change for Redskins fans next year and for years to come. Heres to the bright future of the Washington Redskins and to all of the true fans who have stuck around through the hard times

[feeshta]

The simple fact of the matter is that no other defensive rookie has the presence that Taylor has. Opposing receivers want to know where he is at all times. They worry about him, and rightfully so. Even the refs unjustly worry about him and single him out. It's obvious from his PF's that they were watching him specifically, and waiting for him to screw up.

Has he had some growing pains? Of course. Would I have taken any of the other defensive rookies over him? HELL NO! Simple as that.

[Rypien11]

All the people hating on Taylor now will be riding his jock in the next few years.

The kid can straight up play.

With him a Arrington on the field next year...wow...

So go on pick the kid apart just have the same zeal when he proves to be one of the best draft picks the Skin's have had in a very long time

[The Sisko]

Taylor was my choice for our pick and he played pretty well for us this season. However, he'd d@mn well better get more serious about watching film and studying offenses if he ever wants to become great. If he does decide to put in the time and effort he could be scary good. Maybe he'll give Ed Reed a call in the offseason for some pointers.

[Montilar]

All the people hating on Taylor now will be riding his jock in the next few years

hating ?

Who said they hated Taylor?

Keeping an open mind? yes.

Just because everyone doesn't get down and ride his jock as you put it, it's hate....

or by pointing out that the other rookies that were prospects also had good years, and that we could of had two of them for the price of one..... it's hate.....

[sealskin]

An excellent draft last year. Molinaro and Wilson were great pickups. Molinaro looked very good in preseason and Wilson did a good job in the pittsburgh game. What else can you say about Cooley. A third rounder who performed like a first round pick. Taylor is going to be great for this team. Like someone mentioned earlier he is an intimidator and game changer (sounds like the heartbreak kid from wwe) :laugh: . I have never seen a defensive back intimidate Owens like he did this past season. Some of the other rookie defensive players may have similar or better stats but taylors impact goes beyond his stats. I cant really think of anyone else that would have to game plan because of their presence on the field. Wilfork was probably the closest player impact wise to taylor. You could also argue about vilma (smart and athletic).

[halter91]

Taylor was, IMO, the best rookie in the draft. He's a playmaker and a game changer and forces teams to gameplan against him.

I would do it all over again.

[Beaudry]

You want Ronnie Lott with CB speed? I hate to break the news, but Ronnie Lott did have CB speed. It's probably why he played cornerback for the first few years of his career. He was a Pro Bowl cornerback before he was a safety.

BTW, Udeze played like ass, for the most part. I watched every one of his games this year. I've heard that Tommie Harris really did a good job, but I only saw him once or twice.

My 2 cents into what is one of the worst examples of homerism that I've ever seen on this board. "sure Taylor lost us a few games and was suspended for a DUI, but he's still the best because he's awsome and stuff" Yeah, good times.