method man Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 in this league there have to be pass interference challenges that coaches can do or they have to change the rules to make it a 10-yard penalty always or something like that. but i think that each team should have 1 PI (only for PI) challenge each. If they are correct on the one they challenge, they should get an additional one that they can use later in the game. Bad PI calls are changing games in a wrong way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillherb Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Agreeeeeeeeeed, good call on that, we should ask Doc Walker what he thinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 How can you challenge judgement calls? Would you say that you should allow the judgement of an official in a booth to override an official on the field? Sure, it sucks, but the human dimension is part of the game, love it or hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 WB36 Here's an alternative(BTW it would be easy. No more difficul than determining the spot of a football) Two classes of PI: Where it's blatant, call the spot foul. Where it's questionable it's 15. That way you don't reward the D, they are given no incentive to outright tackle the WR way downfield, but you don't penalize anyone for playing the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 My main problem with PI calls, especially on those deep passes, is that often times the official is on the sideline and is basically GUESSING as to what kind, if any, contact was made. I mean Springs did exactly what a CB is supposed to do in that situation, turn your head and try to make a play on the ball, and Owens grabbed him and tried to slow him up to get seperation. If the official was anywhere BESIDES where he was standing, it would have been a rather easy call to make, but once again the official is out of place to make an accurate call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydshobob Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin WB36 Here's an alternative(BTW it would be easy. No more difficul than determining the spot of a football) Two classes of PI: Where it's blatant, call the spot foul. Where it's questionable it's 15. That way you don't reward the D, they are given no incentive to outright tackle the WR way downfield, but you don't penalize anyone for playing the ball. I actually kinda like that idea. I always thought the spot of foul was too much sometimes, but 15 just wasn't enough. That could be the answer. I'm sure there would be lots of people who would think the refs shouldn't be asked to make that kind of judgement call, but they do it all the time with face masks, running into the kicker, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Westbrook36 Sure, it sucks, but the human dimension is part of the game, love it or hate it. That's all the more reason I think it should be challengeable. I have no problem with challenging a judgement call at all because of that "human element" and the capacity of judging incorrectly. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 How can you challenge judgement calls? Would you say that you should allow the judgement of an official in a booth to override an official on the field? Because it isn't a judgment. It either is pass interference or it isn't. The judgement comes into play due to the speed of the game. A challange would remove that. That was a bad call and would have been overturned in a challange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I completely agree with you. It is ridiculous that we cannot challenges PI. PI when it is a long bomb like last night is very much like a turnover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I don't think they can have PI challenges, because you can call PI on every play if you want (similar to holding). It just happens so much (offensive and defensive) that you could challenge very down and essentially get a free play whenever you need a first down. It just wouldn't work. In yesterdays game, it wouldn't have even halped the Skins, IMO. The Springs/T.O. foul would have ben off-setting and play later in the game with Pinkston and Walt Harris (I think that's who it was) would have resulted in a call instead of a non-call...would have been a wash, basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad4comp Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 No..we should have PI reviewed only when its a called penalty, not just because they show it on the replay. If its a questionable PI that gets called, we should be able to review it, otherwise if its not called, we need to leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 F-Dallas, You're correct the officials missed another interference call on the Pinkston play with Harris, but, the officials don't call offensive pass interference much, which is what we saw on that play, as Harris was in front of the receiver, put his arm out to change directions and the receiver ran through him and tripped him. Luckily for the Eagles that wasn't called against you, but, in most cases that won't be called. It certainly wasn't going to be called on the defender who was in position and has a right to change direction. To suggest removing a horrible call that would have taken 47-yards of field position and a touchdown play from the one away would not have made a difference seems to be a difficult point to even attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I have to agree with Westbrook here. How can you overturn a judgement call? Pass Interference is such a borderline call that it's impossible to put a black and white set in stone version of what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousB15 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Plus, you can't just have a "generic 10 yard penalty". If a reciever is going deep to catch an 80 yard ball, and beats the defender, he could just commit a blantant pass interference call to break up the play, and it would only cost him 10 yards instead of a td. If someone commits the penalty, it makes sense to assume the reciever would have caught the ball if he wasn't impeded. Reviewable yes, but no set yardage penalty. Beside, Springs had his arm wrapped around TO's body, then TO had his hand on Springs. There might have been offsetting, but it wasn't a bs call from the the refs perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 You're correct the officials missed another interference call on the Pinkston play with Harris, but, the officials don't call offensive pass interference much, which is what we saw on that play, as Harris was in front of the receiver, put his arm out to change directions and the receiver ran through him and tripped him. Luckily for the Eagles that wasn't called against you, but, in most cases that won't be called. Art, I know that you know a corner cannot put his arm out to impede the WRs progress while the ball is in the air. That would have been on Walt. On the Springs/T.O., I agree it's a big play that probably should have been off-setting fouls and I'm not minimizing the importance. I was just saying that from a field position perspective, the plays would have pretty much cancelled each other out. I certainly wasn't saying that the PI call down inside the 10 wasn't a big play in the game. That said, though- WRs get away with murder in the NFL...they just do. I don't know why they don't hold the WRs more accountable for PI, but they just won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr11fan Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 How about just hiring full time officials who aren't eligible for the senior citizen discount. Pay them more, and fine them more when they screw up badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 BTW, I'm all for bigger benfits/bigger risks on the Refs. Officiating in the entire league is simply as bad as it's ever been, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Something has got to be changed about those bsd calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Westbrook36 How can you challenge judgement calls? Would you say that you should allow the judgement of an official in a booth to override an official on the field? Sure, it sucks, but the human dimension is part of the game, love it or hate it. While that may be true about "judgement calls" there needs to be a way to address such a game changing poor call. To not throw that flag on T.O. was an injustice. An equal call would be to have ST punch TO in the mouth then call a personal foul on TO for hitting ST's fist with his face. If what they say about calls "evening out" in the long run is true then we should go undefeated next year after the molestation that the refs have heaoped on us this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red zone Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Once the 'Skins start winning, those types of calls will diminish. They just need to continue to believe in themselves and they will overcome those pitiful calls. I was at the game sitting in the end zone near the T.O./Springs PI. The official was clearly waiting to throw a flag....even before the players made contact. Had the teams/roles been reversed, the flag would have stayed in his pocket. Losing teams just will not get those breaks. Especially when they are playing against such a ratings driver as Owens.... :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastof theEast Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I know I am wasting my time typing this, because you all think the refs hosed you on the Springs-TO call, but you are wrong. On the replay you can clearly see Springs' left arm come around TO's waist before any other contact is made. He basically grabbed him and slowed him down. The replay made it tough to see because the camera angle was from the back, not the front, but that is where the ref was and looking right at it. Once the defender interferes, it doesn't matter what TO does to fight through it. It was a good call, even though the idiots in the booth didn't bother to really look at it. I saw it on the very first replay. Instead of concentrating on TO's hands, trying looking around his waist...you'll see what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocono Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Art F-Dallas, You're correct the officials missed another interference call on the Pinkston play with Harris, but, the officials don't call offensive pass interference much, which is what we saw on that play, as Harris was in front of the receiver, put his arm out to change directions and the receiver ran through him and tripped him. Luckily for the Eagles that wasn't called against you, but, in most cases that won't be called. It certainly wasn't going to be called on the defender who was in position and has a right to change direction. To suggest removing a horrible call that would have taken 47-yards of field position and a touchdown play from the one away would not have made a difference seems to be a difficult point to even attempt. And I suppose ART that Harris grabbed Pinkston's jersey so he wouldn't fall down after Pinkston tripped him?? Harris put his arm out to change directions? What was he doing signaling a turn? Where do you get this crap. They were both plays where the proper call wasn't made. Once it benefited the Eagles and the second time it benefited the Skins. I suppose on that out of bounds play TO should of gotten 15 yards for pushing his back against Taylor's hands or that Taylor was giving a 2 hand wave to someone in the crowd and TO cut in front of him........without putting his arm out to signal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TenaciousB15 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I don't care so much about people *****ing about questionable calls. But I dislike the fact that people have a short term memory about the calls that help them, then go on ranting about the negative ones, and how they are always on the wrong end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Originally posted by Beastof theEast I know I am wasting my time typing this, because you all think the refs hosed you on the Springs-TO call, but you are wrong. On the replay you can clearly see Springs' left arm come around TO's waist before any other contact is made. He basically grabbed him and slowed him down. The replay made it tough to see because the camera angle was from the back, not the front, but that is where the ref was and looking right at it. Once the defender interferes, it doesn't matter what TO does to fight through it. It was a good call, even though the idiots in the booth didn't bother to really look at it. I saw it on the very first replay. Instead of concentrating on TO's hands, trying looking around his waist...you'll see what I mean. i know wut play you are talking about because i saw that too in the first replay... however i was focusing on what Springs did more than anything while i was watching it so i didnt concentrate on TO... i would like to see that play again to see if TO or Springs made first illegal contact... i think it was TO though because i thought Springs had his hands on him when the ball was just arriving while TO had his hand on Spring's neck area well before... but like i sadi i would like to see it again to double check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieselfan44 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 You are absolutely 100% correct. It is too much of a game changing penalty to let a refs naked eye change the game. Things move so fast on the field it is impossible to catch everything, even if you're looking straight at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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