bulldog Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I sure hope Patrick Ramsey plays and plays well on Monday night, beyond just the immediate need to get a key division win. His performance could have farther reaching consequences for what we are able to accomplish for the balance of the season. The stats from the first two games of the season are enough to give one pause on an offense loaded with big contracts and familiar names but sputtering along because of a lack of playmaking ability at the most critical position on the field. One can look to the fumblitis of Clinton Portis, the poor route running of Coles or Gardner on particular plays, and the inconsistent play of the OL in Week 2. But that doesn’t explain the 125 yards passing in Game 1 and the similar disappearance of the offense for long stretches. Ultimately, the defense provided the turnovers against Tampa that allowed John Hall to win the game for us. The offense didn’t take either of the last two opportunities in for a clinching touchdown. Instead we had to wait for a final drive or two by Tampa to see what the outcome would be. The Redskins have 4 players on offense that have either made the pro bowl or who are knocking at the door, Samuels, Coles, Portis and Thomas (Jansen would have been a fifth). Looking around at teams in the NFL I see offenses with far less talent overall that are capable of at least scoring in the low 20’s to win. So, what is the common denominator? To me it is the quarterback position. Yes, the other problems and failings above contributed to the one loss, but my guess is that the lack of a downfield passing threat with Brunell on the field will continue to prevent the offense’s skill players we are paying huge bonuses to from making the impact they otherwise could. If Ramsey plays well against Dallas and is able to connect with the wide receivers after setting up the run game, we will finally see what this offense was supposed to do in the first place, force teams to have to commit to stop Portis and then get burned deep in single coverage on the outside. The Redskins have seen single coverage, at least in Week 2, but were unable to make any plays until PR came into the game. The drive ending interceptions didn’t alter the reality that the offense was on the offensive that last 1.5 quarters of Sunday’s game and not back on their heels as they had been for much of the season’s first 6 plus quarters. Because the Redskins were playing from behind against the Giants, we were not able to see the combination of Portis’ rushing in synergy with some downfield passing. Against Dallas, hopefully we will. It all comes down to whether #11 is ready to settle down at 0-0 and manage the game consistently for 60 minutes. Also settling in should be the realization that Brunell, despite his experience, has not appeared from Day 1 of the preseason down to the last game, to be the player that his career statistics indicate he would be for us. A career rating of 85 with a touchdown to interception ratio of better than 2 to 1, with a good yards per completion average? Geez, based on the Tampa and NY games, I wonder what the stats for our #14 rated passer in the NFC would look like without all those 3-5 yard hitches to the WRs? Brunell to me equals WCO. The last time I checked we didn’t run that kind of scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xtrmskn04 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Nice Post Bulldog. I just said similar things in another thread. I think you are right. Ramsey has an opportunity to go out and basically win back his job. In the last game everyone including ramsey made mistakes. However, the offense was moving the ball when ramsey was at the helm. He seems to be able to hit more receivers downfield )especially coles) than brunell. This could be because he is so used to looking downfield first and has a strong arm. However, I really do think the key is handing off early and often to portis to set up the big play downfield. Ramsey should have enough protection in the game and if he comes out looking good and gives us a win on monday night agaisnt the cowboys, we will then have a genuine qb controversy. Also, I bet if ramsey looks good you will not see all the negativity toward him on this board again next week. This would just show how "kerry like" (i.e. flip flopers) some of the posters are here. One week everything is roses and the next week, we are the worst team in the league with overpaid players etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Montana Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Great post bulldog. It's obvious that both QBs are struggling with the Gibbs offense right now. But Ramsey is the one who has the potential to open this offense up. We have to go with Ramsey. Brunell just can't make the deep throws Gibbs needs. That trade for Brunell is going to go down as one of the worst of this NFL offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Full Monty Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 If Ramsey plays mistake free football, doesn't force anything, and throws it away if there's nothing there, we can win this game. Our defense will show up, no doubt about that. They will keep us in this game so long as we don't turn the ball over, and so long as we score points in the red zone. Hey, nobody likes to settle for field goals, but throwing it away and picking up your 3 points is better than forcing it into double coverage and getting nothing. Ramsey made two such mistakes against the Giants in a game we lost by 6 points. Ramsey has to exorcise the demons of his greatest beating of 2003, the repeated bodyslams he took at the hands of Williams, Nguyen, and others...but esp. Williams. That game captured the essence of Spurrier's weakness as a coach and game-planner and further entrenched the Cowboys' confidence when it comes to playing us. Right now, they own us. Period. But a victory against Dallas on Monday night will give us a confidence we haven't had in years, I can't even begin to imagine how important it could mean for us to beat the Cowboys with all this adversity. I dare to say, a resounding win against Dallas would give us a wave of confidence we could ride into the postseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 i don't understand what happened with brunell. jacksonville in its hayday was a power running team with mark killing people with playaction bombs to smith and mcardell. since trying to get coles smashed in the preseason, brunell fails to realize that coles exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Montana Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Brunell just got old. He's a shell of his former self. Jacksonville realized this and we should have too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I agree that the 'potential' of Ramsey probably eclipses that of Brunell. And I agree their combined play has been less than inspiring the first two games. But I think its the wide receivers that have really let the offense down to date, more so than the QBs. Others have pointed it out. Look at the difference our assessment of Ramsey in the Giants game might have been had our WR's (I don't need to mention names here) held on to many catchable balls. A spectacular catch here or there doesn't change that. I've also wondered if its possible the addition of Brunell, and consequently, the significant amount of time devoted to giving him reps as starter-apparent hasn't made it harder for the WR's to get in a groove with a primary QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinzzfan Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Bulldog....love reading your posts over the last couple of years...again you make alot of sense. Its going to be interesting to see what happens to Brunell by years end and into next year and for Ramsey...it has yet to be seen...so now is the time to step up a make the difference and set the tempo for the remainder of the season. Ramsey has the talent around him although Gardner has been on the $hit list which his erractic play. I would like to see McCants as the #4 in the slot more so than Thrash/Jacobs and utilize Portis on some screens instead of the recievers. Good post Bulldog!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisbob74 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Well, with Pat in there it will be interesting to see what subtle changes Gibbs inserts to take advantage of Pats skills. I really believe we just have to ask him not to lose the game for us and get him out of the mindset that it's all on him to make things happen (hence, he forces things and mistakes happen). Portis is the main man of this offense, let him win us the game. What I would like to see Pat do is be given max protection, only send 2 or 3 receivers into the pattern and allow the extra blockers to drop off only if they aren't needed. This keeps Pats choices simple and if nothing is there, just throw it away. This should be a tight game, field position will be key. I would rather punt than give up the ball cheaply. Also, let him take the odd deep shot to take advantage of his arm strength and to stop Dallas' D from compressing the field (8 men in the box). Even if it's incomplete, the D has to respect that the threat is there. Pat can do these things if given the chance...........let's back him to the hilt:dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Way to write the guy off after two frickin games. His stats compare to Leftwich's right now -- should Jacksonville write him off? Look, I hope Ramsey does well. I really do. He's got heart, a great arm, and seems like a great guy. But obviously Gibbs saw something in him on tape that scared him or he wouldn't have signed Brunell -- especially when you consider the contract. Brunell doesn't have the arm he used to. Or at least the confidence in it he used to. That much is hard to deny. But what if Brunell, rag arm and all, gives us a better chance to win than Ramsey and his cannon arm? Apparently, that's what Gibbs thinks because he named Brunell the starter. Obviously, a lot of people on this board think otherwise. Call me crazy, but I'll go with what Coach Gibbs thinks on this one. You know, the guy who watches all the practices, all the game tapes, calls all the shots. If Gibbs changes his mind -- if Patrick's play makes him change his mind -- I will too. I hope like hell Patrick kicks some major ass Monday night. Like I said, I love the guy. But if Gibbs thinks Brunell gives us a better shot to win... well you gotta believe Brunell gives us a better shot to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Very good post, bulldog! I was pretty happy with the Brunell trade (barring contract issues) during the offseason. When rumors were swirling a couple years back that Brunell would get traded, I was hoping the 'skins would snag him. However, I got nervous during the Tampa game and down right Norvous during the first half of the Giants game. His arm strength (as many on here have stated) just ain't what it used to be. I just hope Ramsey can get up to speed and stop pressing so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrinj Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Let's just hope Ramsey doesn't throw it up for grabs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Hooper Way to write the guy off after two frickin games. His stats compare to Leftwich's right now -- should Jacksonville write him off? Look, I hope Ramsey does well. I really do. He's got heart, a great arm, and seems like a great guy. But obviously Gibbs saw something in him on tape that scared him or he wouldn't have signed Brunell -- especially when you consider the contract. Brunell doesn't have the arm he used to. Or at least the confidence in it he used to. That much is hard to deny. But what if Brunell, rag arm and all, gives us a better chance to win than Ramsey and his cannon arm? Apparently, that's what Gibbs thinks because he named Brunell the starter. Obviously, a lot of people on this board think otherwise. Call me crazy, but I'll go with what Coach Gibbs thinks on this one. You know, the guy who watches all the practices, all the game tapes, calls all the shots. If Gibbs changes his mind -- if Patrick's play makes him change his mind -- I will too. I hope like hell Patrick kicks some major ass Monday night. Like I said, I love the guy. But if Gibbs thinks Brunell gives us a better shot to win... well you gotta believe Brunell gives us a better shot to win. I support Coach Gibbs as well but ...when it comes to Brunell.... he made a mistake. I have family in Jacksonville who told me that Brunell had lost arm strength....man, were they right! The word around the league was that Brunell had lost it... so why did Coach Gibbs not realize this?....Ramsey will be successful...I'm confident of that. And if he's not....our season is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 about our WR's, I just realised the WR's coach was not at the ballgame with the Giants because his son is/was the one with the coma. Stan Hicks. Maybe that explains it if their usual coach wasn't there to go over all their reps and practices with them? Not that that's an excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Like Madden said, "Gibbs doesn't have the QB he needs." I hope Ramsey proves Madden wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Bulldog, you have gone from one of Brunell's biggest supporters (in the offseason) to the biggest critics. Nothing wrong, just an observation. That's cool that you admitted that you were not completely correct... unlike some other posters here who remain stubborn. If Brunell does sit for an extensive period of time, he should probably hit the weights and gain that arm strength back. If Brunell isn't the QB that the coaching staff envisioned.... then our QB situation all of a sudden went from looking really deep to pretty thin. No, Tim 0.0 will not do any better than Brunell unless he has greatly improved his arm and accuracy. Also.. I don't think the fact that one of our guys is lefthanded and the other is righthanded was beneificial to our receivers on Sunday. That must have been why so many balls were dropped - the opposite spin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Everyone needs to relax. If anyone can figure this out, it will be coach Joe Gibbs. If he has to modify his offense to fit his qb's strengths and/or weaknesses, he will do it. I love it -- two games into the season and some posters on this board actually think they know better than THE BEST COACH IN NFL HISTORY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Hooper Everyone needs to relax. If anyone can figure this out, it will be coach Joe Gibbs. If he has to modify his offense to fit his qb's strengths and/or weaknesses, he will do it. I love it -- two games into the season and some posters on this board actually think they know better than THE BEST COACH IN NFL HISTORY! Who said that they know better? (in this thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by Hooper Way to write the guy off after two frickin games. His stats compare to Leftwich's right now -- should Jacksonville write him off? Look, I hope Ramsey does well. I really do. He's got heart, a great arm, and seems like a great guy. But obviously Gibbs saw something in him on tape that scared him or he wouldn't have signed Brunell -- especially when you consider the contract. Brunell doesn't have the arm he used to. Or at least the confidence in it he used to. That much is hard to deny. But what if Brunell, rag arm and all, gives us a better chance to win than Ramsey and his cannon arm? Apparently, that's what Gibbs thinks because he named Brunell the starter. Obviously, a lot of people on this board think otherwise. Call me crazy, but I'll go with what Coach Gibbs thinks on this one. You know, the guy who watches all the practices, all the game tapes, calls all the shots. If Gibbs changes his mind -- if Patrick's play makes him change his mind -- I will too. I hope like hell Patrick kicks some major ass Monday night. Like I said, I love the guy. But if Gibbs thinks Brunell gives us a better shot to win... well you gotta believe Brunell gives us a better shot to win. Good call, and I pretty much agree with you here. One thing I find interesting is how Ramsey has been making mental errors and rookie mistakes for 3 seasons now, with really no sign of improvement at all. 1TD and 3 INTs actually proves he's gone backwards, not forwards. That said, most fans and a good percentage of posters here think he is still the answer. If I had a nickel for everytime I saw someone post "He just needs more time" or "give him time", then I'd quit my day job. Now, Brunell has two sub-par performances (clearly not as bad as Ramsey has ever shown) and it's time to bench him? This makes no logical sense to me. I realilze Gibbs says that Ramsey is smart but keep in mind we are dealing with Joe Gibbs, the guy who doesn't say anything bad about anyone PERIOD. If he thought Ramsey was gonna be our QB then why go out and get Brunell in the first place? Now I realize that Brunell has shown little of the greatness that has made him the #11 all time passer in the NFL, but I think his experience and leadership far outweight what Ramsey has to offer at this point. If Ramsey was a strong and smart leader as some of you assume, then Ramsey doesn't force the ball downfield on his throws, and throws the ball away when coverage is tight. Brunell marched right down the field on both of his first drives in two games. Granted game one was the big Portis run, but you can't sit there and tell me that Ramsey can and will do the same for this offense. It's a mentality in the huddle, it's a strength and willpower that passes through the ranks. It's an edge that I have yet to see from Ramsey. He may have a great arm, but he has yet to figure out how to use it productively on the football field. I personally am hoping for Brunell to get healthy for the Monday night game against Dallas. I too feel Ramsey's arm can help us stretch the field, but just as most of you here are confident in Ramsey's abilities even after three years of utter disappointment, I am confident that Brunell will get his arm strength and confidence back even after two games of sub-par performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 "I support Coach Gibbs as well but ...when it comes to Brunell.... he made a mistake. I have family in Jacksonville who told me that Brunell had lost arm strength....man, were they right! The word around the league was that Brunell had lost it... so why did Coach Gibbs not realize this?" That certainly sounds like someone who thinks they know better than Gibbs to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I guess I missed that one Hooper. My bad! I must have this keen ability to skip over posts that are pointless. So yeah, I probably skip all of my own too, like this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohioskinfan Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 i have to disagree. i think brunnell has the arm strength to get the ball deep, and get the job done. im not saying he has a rocket like ramsy, but neither does most starting quarterbacks in this league. the deep ball hasnt materialized because of our recievers, the play calling, or the defense. im more disappointed in our recievers lack of getting open, especially when one on one coverage was taking place, our recievers are to good to allow single coverage and the defense to cheat against the run, but the giants did it with great sucess, and built more and more confidence as the game went on. i say sit 50/50 and thrash, start mccants and jacobs giving us a big target and 2 deep threats, then see how the quarter backs play. at least they might get some opportunities, and the recievers might actually catch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 No problem, Ramseyskins. Didn't mean to jump down your throat or anything. And don't get me wrong: I'm by no means a Ramsey hater. I would absolutely love it if he played so well Monday night that Gibbs had no choice but to start him in week four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Joe Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 I'm convinced that Brunell no longer has a "pro" arm. There is no doubting that he can still run the offense just because of his knowledge and experience, but I think the offense has a lot more potential with Ramsey (and also a lot more downside). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted September 23, 2004 Share Posted September 23, 2004 Originally posted by ramseyskins If Brunell does sit for an extensive period of time, he should probably hit the weights and gain that arm strength back. Would that work? If it was that easy I imagine that all the NFL QB's would have rockets arms. Even though it's called "arm strength", I don't think it has everything to due with pure muscle strength. Not being much of an athlete, this is something I've wondered about for some time. Anyone know better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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