Skinsfan1966 Posted August 7, 2004 Share Posted August 7, 2004 Actually Ho Chi Men felt Kerry was a little to far left. That why Jane Fonda wouldn't let him hang out with her anymore, she felt he was a left wing wacko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Chris Matthews (during the convention) repeatedly remarked that it has been proven and is well documented by nuetral sources that John Kerry has the most liberal voting record and Edwards the fourth. (and Matthews is not a fan of Bush or an anti-Kerry guy by any means, at least not these days.) He was not challenged on this by the Democrats, after he pointed out his source for the info. It is true so stop trying to deny it guys...just make do with the liberal Senators that are on the Democratic ticket. No need to lie and pretend they are not what they have been factually proven to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Skinsfan1966, "Actually Ho Chi Men..." ------------------------------------------------- Is that the Gay Vietnamese Rock Band? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by visionary Chris Matthews (during the convention) repeatedly remarked that it has been proven and is well documented by nuetral sources that John Kerry has the most liberal voting record and Edwards the fourth. (and Matthews is not a fan of Bush or an anti-Kerry guy by any means, at least not these days.) He was not challenged on this by the Democrats, after he pointed out his source for the info. It is true so stop trying to deny it guys...just make do with the liberal Senators that are on the Democratic ticket. No need to lie and pretend they are not what they have been factually proven to be. Please, you're embarrassing yourself. In time you will learn that people snicker at you if you post "well, it must be true, they said it on TV". Try to learn a bit, do a little research before you call people liars. The source for the claim comes from the National Journal, who in fact did rate Kerry and Edwards #1 and #4. The problem is, this rating is based on a small time period (last year) when both men missed a large percentage of votes while campaigning for the Presidential nomination. The long-term ratings for these men, from the same source, place Kerry as significantly less liberal, and Edwards as solidly mainstream. The Republicans know this, Chris Matthews knows this, and I suppose whoever else was on that show knows it also. And now, so do you. Doesn't this feel better than letting the talking heads tell you what is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 My first question would be: How exactly does the National Journal calculate these ratings? No doubt it based on their voting record, but what is the specific criteria? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by Zero Cool My first question would be: How exactly does the National Journal calculate these ratings? No doubt it based on their voting record, but what is the specific criteria? Not sure what they use, most of their site is $$$ and I'm much too cheap. They're pretty well regarded as nonpartisan, though. One thing I should note about both Kerry and Edwards. That #1 and #4 rating last year was almost certainly not just a statistical quirk. Without actually reviewing the individual votes, I expect both of them followed the well-worn path of moving towards the to capture the [Democratic][Republican] nomination, then returning to their traditional patterns for the campaign - and hopefully beyond, for the winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I'm sure it's non-partisan. The subject is basically that Kerry is called the #1 liberal senator, but he is in fact the #11 liberal. So I wonder what is the difference between the #1 and #11? The data just doesn't give me a good gauge of what Kerry or Edwards is like. Maybe a general run down of what kinds of things he votes for and against, would be a lot more useful to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by Zero Cool My first question would be: How exactly does the National Journal calculate these ratings? No doubt it based on their voting record, but what is the specific criteria? They randomly sample Karl Rove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by The Killer Bandersnatch They randomly sample Karl Rove Horrible...mental image...forming...forming...dissipating...dissipating...FORMING...dissipating...gone. Phew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by Zero Cool My first question would be: How exactly does the National Journal calculate these ratings? No doubt it based on their voting record, but what is the specific criteria? To try to give you an honest answer: All the rankings I've seen use the same methods. First, you pick a series of bills that you say are good indicators of whatever you're measuring (liberall-ness, family values, whatever). You assign points to the various votes. (Well, I think anybody who voted "Yea" on this bill should get 34 "liberal points".) Then you total up each person's score. Let's just leave aside, for example, that Congressmen have lots of potential reasons for voting for or against a particular bill. (The folks running the rankings do.) Let's also leave aside the observation that, if someone wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to hand-pick the votes and the point scales so that you could get any results you wanted. (I'm certain that it's merely a coincidence that Kerry was ranked as a rather moderate Democrat untill he became the nominee, then suddenly became Public Enemy Number One.) The problem with these rankings is that it's nothing more than an attempt to make a statement of opinion look like science. The ranking is worth exactly as much as a college football ranking poll. And if the folks who're doing the ranking have an agenda, then it's worth as much as an internet college football poll on the web site of one particular team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 List says Kerry top Senate liberal By Stephen Dinan THE WASHINGTON TIMES Sen. John Kerry was the "No. 1 Senate liberal in 2003," according to new rankings by the National Journal. The publication rated all 100 senators' votes on 32 economic issues, 15 social policy issues and 15 foreign policy issues, and found the Massachusetts senator and presidential hopeful more liberal than any of his colleagues. The magazine noted that Mr. Kerry had the most liberal record three other times in his 20 years in Congress: in 1986, 1988 and 1990. By contrast in 2003, fellow Massachusetts Sen. Edward M. Kennedy was the 11th most liberal senator, according to the rankings by the weekly, which covers Washington government and Congress. Mr. Kerry's voting record was less liberal throughout the 1990s, compared to his Senate colleagues. But this past year, he and Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, the man presenting the most serious challenge to Mr. Kerry for the Democratic nomination, were both much more liberal. Mr. Edwards was ranked fourth most liberal. It was striking that the two men were so similar, the magazine said, "because during the course of their Senate careers, their ratings have often placed them in different wings of their party." Their high scores may be due, in part, to having missed so many votes while campaigning last year. Of the 62 votes the magazine tracked, Mr. Kerry missed 37 and Mr. Edwards missed 22. Both men usually returned for the most critical party votes, which probably boosted their liberal credentials. The Republican National Committee (RNC) sent out an e-mail yesterday listing the 62 votes National Journal used in its rankings, with the subject heading, "Label Him What You Want, Kerry Wrong Choice For America." Later, RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson said, "John Kerry's record speaks for itself, and we've been saying that all along and will continue to say it." Mr. Kerry's campaign press office did not return a call for comment. The National Journal's voting record list included the senator's votes on trade agreements, abortion, Medicare, tax cuts, spending and efforts to end filibusters on confirming some of the most contentious judicial nominees. Other groups also rate Mr. Kerry as more liberal on the political spectrum, though not the most liberal senator. The American Conservative Union (ACU) gave him a 13 rating on its conservative scale for 2003, with 100 being the most conservative. His rating was higher than the 10 rating or lower scored by Mr. Kennedy and 13 other Democrats. This was partly because Mr. Kerry missed three votes, which boosted his average. Mr. Kerry has a lifetime career rating of 5 from the ACU, slightly above the group's lifetime career 3 score for Mr. Kennedy. The Americans for Democratic Action, a prominent liberal advocacy group, gives Mr. Kerry a lifetime career rating of 92 on a 100-point scale, with 100 being the most liberal. Mr. Kerry's rating is higher than fellow Democratic candidate Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich, Ohio Democrat. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040227-111241-3716r.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I again pose to you the main question. If his state is liberal and he is liberal wouldnt that mean he's doing a good job.. Why does every liberal leaning person on this board try and make it seem he is not a liberal.. Bush is not a conservative... I want him to be one but he's about 3 stepf from Kerry right now... I don't go out there and yell that he's NOT the #1 conservative.. I go out there and say he should be... It boggles the mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 I find it amusing that aREDSKIN found a Washington Times that perfectly illustrates the point that Kerry is NOT the super-liberal. Even this biased article, which cherry-picks the years to discuss rather than delve into his career as a whole, admits "Mr. Kerry's voting record was less liberal throughout the 1990s". A carefully and deceitfully worded statement, since other than 2003 his "less liberal" voting record has been consistent AFTER the 90s also. And, as the article acknowledges, the 2003 record is somewhat distorted since during his campaign Kerry made more of an effort to appear for Democratic initiatives deemed most important by the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just skins baby Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Whether Kerry and Edwards are the most Liberal or only the 8th most liberal, they are still very liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Originally posted by JimboDaMan I find it amusing that aREDSKIN found a Washington Times that perfectly illustrates the point that Kerry is NOT the super-liberal. Even this biased article, which cherry-picks the years to discuss rather than delve into his career as a whole, admits "Mr. Kerry's voting record was less liberal throughout the 1990s". A carefully and deceitfully worded statement, since other than 2003 his "less liberal" voting record has been consistent AFTER the 90s also. And, as the article acknowledges, the 2003 record is somewhat distorted since during his campaign Kerry made more of an effort to appear for Democratic initiatives deemed most important by the party. Thanks for the acknowledgement as you know I strive to be the arbitor of objectivity here in the tailgate. It's also interesting to me that you claim the article is clearly biased yet cherry pick the points within it that you agree with to substantiate your position that Kerry is not a flaming liberal. In a any given year Kerry might not be the "most" liberal pol but any reasonablly objective anaylsis would put him in the far left liberal camp IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 If I was cherry-picking points I would have also pointed out that, according to a conservative group, over the exact same time period Kerry was only the 15th most liberal Democrat. Yet the article began with the statement "Sen. John Kerry was the No. 1 Senate liberal in 2003". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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