jrfriedm Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by RW31 So what you're saying is, that parcells hasn't had the success hes had with the giants with any other team? I can use the same argument with Gibbs. Okay, do it. I'm interested in hearing your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsbroker Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by Dirk Diggler Who ranks as the "better" coach all-time? Use whatever criteria you wish. Make your argument...go. The main reason why Joe Gibbs doesn't have a few of the "bad" seasons that Parcells may have had (as someone mentioned in this thread, which by the way those "bad" seasons are quite rare in Parcells' history, how many were there besides his first?) is because Gibbs always had talent-laden teams. Even the inaugural 1981 Redskins team was much better than teams Parcells took over with the Jets and the Patriots and the Cowboys. Gibbs always enjoyed that comfort level. You can say Parcells accomplished more because he took over several downtrodden organizations and turned their entire culture around. A rarity to do it once. Parcells is the ONLY one to do it 3 different times. Gibbs has more Super Bowl rings (1 more, not 40 more) but keep in mind that Parcells is actually the one that has MORE SB rings during the time they coached against one another. (i.e. parcells overcame gibbs' redskins in order to win 2 championships while Gibbs didn't have the worry of even facing parcells for 2 of his titles, making them that much easier to obtain than parcells' ones). Parcells' won his two in non-strike (therefore non-argumentative seasons) because at the very least scores of people have questioned the credibility on championships that were won in 82 and 87 versus ALL the other championships. (do not just single out this one point while neglecting all the other points raised in this post or it will be ignored) Parcells has won in today's era. Yesterday's era. And finally his record face to face against Gibbs isnt even up for debate, which includes the ALL IMPORTANT playoff record (since people here are using that as the only critera (# of super bowl titles), parcells won a title **BY** beating Joe Gibbs redskins in the NFC championship handidly. Everything, I'm afraid, when u put down your bias and be honest about it, points to Parcells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by newsbroker The main reason why Joe Gibbs doesn't have a few of the "bad" seasons that Parcells may have had (as someone mentioned in this thread, which by the way those "bad" seasons are quite rare in Parcells' history, how many were there besides his first?) is because Gibbs always had talent-laden teams. Even the inaugural 1981 Redskins team was much better than teams Parcells took over with the Jets and the Patriots and the Cowboys. To say that taking over a team that had a top10 defense the previous year, a solid core of talent (in WR, DB, and LB) is absolutly ridiculous. In fact, the Redskins aren't that much different from where the Cowboys were last year. Had some Good talent, but had years of bad coaching. Hmmm...How familiar :doh: Gibbs always enjoyed that comfort level. You can say Parcells accomplished more because he took over several downtrodden organizations and turned their entire culture around. A rarity to do it once. Parcells is the ONLY one to do it 3 different times. Same point restated...Next Gibbs has more Super Bowl rings (1 more, not 40 more) but keep in mind that Parcells is actually the one that has MORE SB rings during the time they coached against one another. (i.e. parcells overcame gibbs' redskins in order to win 2 championships while Gibbs didn't have the worry of even facing parcells for 2 of his titles, making them that much easier to obtain than parcells' ones). Umm...if memory serves me Parcells was there for two of Gibbs's, while Gibbs was there for both of Parcells Parcells' won his two in non-strike (therefore non-argumentative seasons) because at the very least scores of people have questioned the credibility on championships that were won in 82 and 87 versus ALL the other championships. (do not just single out this one point while neglecting all the other points raised in this post or it will be ignored) I wouldn't dream about making my entire responce based on this, in fact, I'm going to just move on. Parcells has won in today's era. Yesterday's era. And finally his record face to face against Gibbs isnt even up for debate, which includes the ALL IMPORTANT playoff record (since people here are using that as the only critera (# of super bowl titles), parcells won a title **BY** beating Joe Gibbs redskins in the NFC championship handidly. Yes, Parcells is an excellent coach and deserves to be in the Hall of Fame and will undoubtably get there. However, to say that Parcells record isn't even up for debat because the man beat him like 5 more times than other is just plain stupid. Gibbs himself has said many of times that he just outright feared "LT", not the "Tuna". It was Taylor that made gibbs shake, and it was Taylor who mad Gibbs have to revamp his entire offense two weeks a season around, not Parcells. Everything, I'm afraid, when u put down your bias and be honest about it, points to Parcells. Sorry you didn't change my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvan Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Giving Bill his respect i'd still say Joe is the better. He has better or same success as Bill but has it because his players respect him not fear him. That's what puts Joe on top. Once we win another SB under Joe there'll be no question in anyones mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HamptonVA Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Hmmmmmmmmm,, me think that I will go with Gibbs on this one as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 How bout next coach to a Super Bowl wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I could not ever call one better than the other, but I will say this: When Gibbs leaves one day, we will need to consider someone to replace him. Parcells may still be a Cowboy or, more likely, will be retired. He would be the ONLY coach in the NFL that I would be happy with as a replacement for Joe Gibbs. However, due to my rant in another thread some time back, we can never hire him even if he were available. Why? Because he'd be a *$%#%#$@#@*$%@#^* EX-COWBOY!!! NO MORE EX-COWBOYS. EVER. :doh: EVER! F it. Gibbs rules. You can be an all-time great coach but when you got to Dallas, you win NO POLLS with me. "NO polls for you!" (Poll-Nazi) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryBrown43 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Dikta, Dikta, Dikta... Dikta vs a tornado? Even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Gibbs: NFL & NASCAR Parcells: NFL & Dunkin Doughnuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizskinz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 EASY............................Coach Joe!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankbones Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Now are we talking a mini-Gibbs or a regular size one? Mini Gibbs - 37 Parcells - 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW31 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by jrfriedm Okay, do it. I'm interested in hearing your argument. Gibbs hasn't had the same success with any other team besides the redskins. Happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 I would hate to have to live on the difference between Gibbs and Parcells. The one nice thing about this issue is that fortunatly, we will all have the opportunity to figure it out on the field. Never in a million years would I have thought that Bill Parcells would be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 2004 and Joe Gibbs would be back as the head coach of the Washington Redskins in the same year had I been asked a few years prior. To our great good fortune, we will all get the opportunity and that can not be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fwo40 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by ABQCOWBOY I would hate to have to live on the difference between Gibbs and Parcells. The one nice thing about this issue is that fortunatly, we will all have the opportunity to figure it out on the field. Never in a million years would I have thought that Bill Parcells would be the head coach of the Dallas Cowboys in 2004 and Joe Gibbs would be back as the head coach of the Washington Redskins in the same year had I been asked a few years prior. To our great good fortune, we will all get the opportunity and that can not be a bad thing. Exactly. As someone who will be at the Week 3 matchup, I can tell you it's something I consider a very rare blessing for these two to lock horns again. The opportunity to play and beat our biggest rival...headed by the coach that used to give us the most fits.....it's a story in itself than lends to the rivarly. Parcells vs Gibbs. Cowboys vs Redskins. Brings a chill of excitement everytime I think about it. You guys can debate who the better coach is...I want to live on each game from here on out. Who thought we'd get this chance again? Go Skins :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akrpsu Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Here is the thing about Gibbs vs. Parcells: you can spend all day debating who is better than who and probably get 50 people who say Gibbs and 50 who say Parcells. In the end, Joe Gibbs is coming out of retirement to save his franchise. He didn't go to another organization, let alone a division rival; so trying to convince a bunch of Redskins fans otherwise is useless because no Redskins fan could possibly side with Parcells. :wewantd: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsbroker Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Originally posted by akrpsu Here is the thing about Gibbs vs. Parcells: you can spend all day debating who is better than who and probably get 50 people who say Gibbs and 50 who say Parcells. In the end, Joe Gibbs is coming out of retirement to save his franchise. that's not what this is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thew Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Parcells is a great coach. He'll be a hall of famer. In the modern era the only people who he looses against would be Gibbs and Walsh. I think Parcells is a better motivator than Gibbs. Parcells wins by inspireing his men to give it their all. Gibbs motivates but is not the world class motivator which Parcells is. I think Gibbs is a better X's and O's guy than parcells, I think Gibbs is a better talent evaluator and certainly Gibbs offensive genius is more valuable than Parcells defensive talents.... Gibbs get's the nod over Parcells because he has a better record and more rings and has won rings with more diverse players than Parcells. I still like Parcells though, Those Giant's Redskins games in the mid to late 80's were among the greatest games ever played. Remember Gary Clark being used as a blocker along with Jacoby against LT.... Remember the flying wing..... Wow...If we didn't have Gibbs back I can think of nobody I would rather have than Parcells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 I'd say Parcells may be the best guy you could possibly hire for a team that stinks. (If Marvin Lewis can do it, then he's part-way there, too.) OTOH, let's also point out that, while Parcells has a history of taking over losing teams and making winners, he also, if I recall, has a history of running those same winners back into the ground before quitting. I'd take Gibbs, because he builds suatainable teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by RW31 Gibbs hasn't had the same success with any other team besides the redskins. Happy? That's a weak argument and you know it RW31. Do you know why Gibbs hasn't had success with any other team? I do, because he hasn't tried to. He is far more loyal than Parcells who dumps his teams quite often. I think that in the end you will find more players loyal to Gibbs simply because he wouldn't quit on them. Originally posted by thew I think Parcells is a better motivator than Gibbs. Parcells wins by inspireing his men to give it their all. Gibbs motivates but is not the world class motivator which Parcells is. I don't think that you can compare them in this regard. They get their results in much different ways. Parcells is pretty much to be feared and then respected whereas Gibbs acquires his following by showing a caring attitude and loyalty to his players. Originally posted by thew I think Gibbs is a better talent evaluator Again, I disagree with you here. Parcells has proven himself to be very adept at building a roster, many different types of rosters. Gibbs on the other hand, is taking his first real crack at it without the help of an astute GM. The edge has to go to Parcells here. Overall, I'd have to say that I'd be happy with either one. I of course prefer Gibbs because I appreciate his loyalty and dedication to this franchise. As others have stated...The picture will be much clearer a few years from now. At this moment I'd have to say that Parcells track record with multiple teams and the fact that he has won in the free agency era cancel out the extra ring that Gibbs has on him. It's a push in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsbroker Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by redskns56 At this moment I'd have to say that Parcells track record with multiple teams and the fact that he has won in the free agency era cancel out the extra ring that Gibbs has on him. It's a push in my book. Parcells 11-6 vs. Gibbs. Parcells 1-0 vs. Gibbs in the playoffs, a 17-0 rout. Parcells TWO SB championships while Gibbs was on his schedule. Gibbs ONE SB championship while Parcells was on HIS schedule. It's Parcells. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted May 26, 2004 Author Share Posted May 26, 2004 Newsbroker The Skins had talent-laden teams in 80s? You say that like the Giants were playing with a powder puff squad and Parcells simply willed them titles. That's funny stuff. If you had a clue about 80s football, you'd know that the Giants had the more talented teams in the 80s than the Redskins. This was due primarily to GM George Young's brilliant front office work. It was the mastery of Joe Gibbs that closed the talent gap between the 2 teams and it would be foolish to argue otherwise. Head to head, Parcells came out more often on top but coaches are not judged on what they do against one team - they are judged on what they do against the entire league. Quite simply, Gibbs was better against the entire league. I digress. The most talented unit (of the 4) on either side of the ball was the Giants defense by far. They also had perhaps the most dynamic player to ever lineup on defense in LT - a true immortal. There was no LT on the Skins. There were no immortals - there weren't even perennial pro bowlers. There was no dynamic player on offense. Sure we had Art Monk and Ernest Byner and Joe Jacoby. In mind, the best player we ever had in the late 80s -early 90s was Jim Lachey and you probably never heard of him. He was responsible for silencing Reggie White from about 88-92. Which brings me to my next point...the Eagles. A team the Skins used to handle quite easily back in the 80s. Yet for some reason, the Giants always had trouble with them. Maybe that was because Buddy Ryan was a better coach than Parcells? You see, the Giants matched up well with the Skins - same way the Skins used to match up well with the Eagles. You can't have it one way and not the other. And BTW, I know - Gibbs only has 1 more ring than Parcells - just one more. But how many more chances are we going to give the Tuna? Seriously? He's been coaching for like 50 years now. You'd think he'd have 3 rings by now considering how damn easy it is to get em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsbroker Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by Dirk Diggler Newsbroker The Skins had talent-laden teams in 80s? You say that like the Giants were playing with a powder puff squad and What the hell are you talking about? Reread the post, you missed the point by 5,000 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helluvaskinsfan Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 gibbs with 3 qb's 3 rings.and it would be more by now if he never left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helluvaskinsfan Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Originally posted by Dirk Diggler Newsbroker The Skins had talent-laden teams in 80s? You say that like the Giants were playing with a powder puff squad and Parcells simply willed them titles. That's funny stuff. gibbs put them teams together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Gibbs because he won with three different QBs and running backs. A lot of people think Parcells is a great coach but had one of the greatest ever in LT. He hasn't won without LT and has been to 3 SB. Gibbs has been to 4 and won three. Only Super Bowls or loses count. No division championships or playoff appearances we only count the rings and the near misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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