Will Portis be the same in the NFC East?

[RF4L]

I don't think yards matter, folks, it's all about the W's.

[Wicked99]

umm ok and how well did the eagles do against the run last year? does the giants defense scare you? also keep in mind that the skins play the browns, lions, bengals, 49ers and vikings this season. portis will do fine.

[nycskinsfan]

Tiki Barber rushed for 1,300 yards last year against our division so I'd hope he could at least top that. We have a much better line and Portis is a bettter back.

[bulldog]

Davis had 1,400 yards and 17 touchdowns in 1999. I think those numbers are definitely in reach for Portis, if not better than that.

The Redskins, assuming everyone is healthy, have good options in the passing game and a quarterback in Brunell that has had demonstable success spreading the ball around.

It will be interesting to see how quickly Cooley becomes a part of the regular offense. His dependable hands should give the Skins the ability to convert third downs.

[NavyDave]

If we are deep in the playoffs I could care less if he doesnt reach 1500 yds this year.

Besides what yards Portis doesnt run for will probably be made up by Cartwright to the delight of the milions and millions of Rock fans

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by China

In answer to my own question, I looked it up. The most yards for a back in Redskins history is 1,432 in 2001 by Stephen Davis. The most for a RB under Gibbs is 1,347 (Riggins) in 1983.

So I would be surprised is Portis gets 1500 yards.

Apples and oranges. Riggins was a power back that grinded out yards, and also split time with Joe Washington in Gibbs first two years. Other backs in Gibbs tenure was by committee.

Portis is a speed back, when given an opening can take it to the end zone, something Gibbs never had before.

Portis's productivity will be measured by how well the OL plays. If Bugels gets them in Hog Shape... I say watch out.

Offensive Stats during Gibbs tenure

81

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

307 525 3743 7.13 19 22 532 2157 4.05 19 5900

NFL rank ---> 7 7 9 11 18 15 12 12 16 8 9

82(* strike year)

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

162 253 2068 8.17 13 9 315 1140 3.62 5 3208

NFL rank ---> 13 24 11 3 8 4 5 10 17 24 6

83

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

278 463 3765 8.13 29 11 629 2625 4.17 30 6390

NFL rank ---> 16 19 10 2 7 2 1 3 12 1 3

84

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

286 485 3417 7.05 24 13 588 2274 3.87 20 5691

NFL rank ---> 15 21 20 16 9 2 2 4 17 4 12

85

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

280 512 3243 6.33 13 21 571 2523 4.42 20 5766

NFL rank ---> 12 15 24 27 26 12 3 2 6 4 11

86

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

276 542 4109 7.58 22 22 474 1732 3.65 23 5841

NFL rank ---> 18 10 6 5 10 18 14 17 22 2 6

87 *(Replacement players)

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

247 478 3718 7.78 27 18 500 2102 4.20 18 5820

NFL rank ---> 19 17 5 2 5 12 9 7 5 4 3

88 (only losing season)

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

327 592 4339 7.33 33 25 437 1543 3.53 8 5882

NFL rank ---> 2 2 2 8 1 25 25 25 26 26 6

89

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

337 581 4476 7.70 24 17 514 1904 3.70 14 6380

NFL rank ---> 4 4 2 6 7 9 9 14 19 15 3

90

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

301 536 3611 6.74 22 22 515 2083 4.04 16 5694

NFL rank ---> 7 7 7 21 11 22 4 6 14 10 4

91

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

261 447 3771 8.44 30 11 540 2049 3.79 21 5820

NFL rank ---> 21 26 5 1 2 3 1 7 18 1 4

92

|---------- PASSING -----------||----- RUSHING -----| TOTAL

CMP ATT YD YPA TD INT ATT YD YPA TD YD

272 485 3339 6.88 15 17 483 1727 3.58 10 5066

NFL rank ---> 13 13 13 18 23 13 7 13 25 18 14

[Streater101]

Originally posted by nycskinsfan

Tiki Barber rushed for 1,300 yards last year against our division so I'd hope he could at least top that. We have a much better line and Portis is a bettter back.

Thank god someone said that. Not take anything from my boy from UVA, but I'd think Portis will do better than be on par with Tiki.

I'd also like to think we're a little more talented up front than New York is right now.

[rfdc]

1,200 yards is an EXCELLENT projection because Gibbs uses so much of his offense. If you put the O back in Denver with Portis back there, it would still be around 1,300 -1,400 in their terms.

Portis will see other numbers go up - I aint telling

[Pocono]

Those stats are interesting Bubba. I mean you hear about the legend of the Hogs and Bugel but the yds per carry numbers over that span were clearly below average. Their average rank in yds per carry during those 12 years was 17th which is very close to bottom third when you consider there were fewer teams back then. I didn't figure it but it looks like the average per over that span is about the 3.9 yds per carry you averaged last year under Spurrier. Historically the average yds per carry in the NFL is a little over 4 per carry.

BTW...It's interesting that Portis only faced 2 top 11 D's on his way to compiling a 5.5 yds per carry average while Brian Westbrook faced top 11 run D's 9 times when he averaged 5.3 yds per carry last year. The 4.7 per that Portis averaged outside of his own conference was the same as the Eagle's 3 headed running attack averaged against much more potent run D's.

[kappaluvacee]

I think the number of touchdowns scored will be better than he's had to date. I think he'll get nearly 1,200 yards, but Gibbs will sub to keep the defense off balance and he will be in situations where he is asked to catch more than before. I think the number of TD's scored is going to be my focus. We all know from 5 yards in, the H-Back and Fullbacks tend to get the punishing carries, unless Portis has that ability too.

[aREDSKIN]

My sense that Portis will be above the 1500 yard mark barring a serious injury of course. Gibbs has said he'll "borrow" some of the Broncos plays that exploited Portis's skill set. Speed.

[jpgirth]

Originally posted by Pocono

Those stats are interesting Bubba. I mean you hear about the legend of the Hogs and Bugel but the yds per carry numbers over that span were clearly below average. Their average rank in yds per carry during those 12 years was 17th which is very close to bottom third when you consider there were fewer teams back then. I didn't figure it but it looks like the average per over that span is about the 3.9 yds per carry you averaged last year under Spurrier. Historically the average yds per carry in the NFL is a little over 4 per carry.

BTW...It's interesting that Portis only faced 2 top 11 D's on his way to compiling a 5.5 yds per carry average while Brian Westbrook faced top 11 run D's 9 times when he averaged 5.3 yds per carry last year. The 4.7 per that Portis averaged outside of his own conference was the same as the Eagle's 3 headed running attack averaged against much more potent run D's.

It's interesting that you compare Westbrook to Portis.

Let's see:

Portis 290 carries 1500+yds and 3 missed games 5.5ypc

Westbrook 117 carries 613yds 5.3ypc

It is also interesting how Portis has done this for two consecutive seasons. Was Westbrook even around two years ago, Oh yeah he was: 46 carries 193yds 4.2ypc

It is also interesting how you have a slanted arguement when it comes to the skins.

Who or what group of people was responsible for the superbowls, The Great Gazoo and his band of merrymen?

You'll probably pick someone or group of people that doesn't exist in the franchise any longer.

Another question, what stops the Eagles? According to you, the ultimate homer,Westbrook is on par if not better than Portis. Mcnabb is the best qb in the league, TO is better than Rice, your line is better than the hogs, the defensive rivals the steel curtain.

Your coach is the next coming of George Halas. Your front office is smarter than 49ers of the 80's, the skins of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 90's, the Steelers of the 70's.

So what's stopping the Eagles who have been favored the last two nfcc greatly and choked?:eaglesuck

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by Pocono

Those stats are interesting Bubba. I mean you hear about the legend of the Hogs and Bugel but the yds per carry numbers over that span were clearly below average. Their average rank in yds per carry during those 12 years was 17th which is very close to bottom third when you consider there were fewer teams back then. I didn't figure it but it looks like the average per over that span is about the 3.9 yds per carry you averaged last year under Spurrier. Historically the average yds per carry in the NFL is a little over 4 per carry.

BTW...It's interesting that Portis only faced 2 top 11 D's on his way to compiling a 5.5 yds per carry average while Brian Westbrook faced top 11 run D's 9 times when he averaged 5.3 yds per carry last year. The 4.7 per that Portis averaged outside of his own conference was the same as the Eagle's 3 headed running attack averaged against much more potent run D's.

The question was how many yards Potis will get, in total yardage Gibbs team avg ranking #9, with one year ranked #25 '88, and #17 '86, take away those two years his teams avg being ranked 7. The YPA avg is lower because Gibbs teams had many short yard runs for TD's and first downs.

The avg total yards per year is 1988, take out the strike year 1982 and the avg is over 2065 yards per year. Fairly impressive totals.

again Gibbs never had a break away back like Portis before, he always had veteran power backs (like a Eddie George) Riggins, Riggs, Rodgers, Byner all at the tail end of their careers. Portis's speed will add many more yards per game than the old workhorse backs of Gibbs past could muster.

[helluvaskinsfan]

i hope he is still as hungry,now that he's rich

[grimreaper36]

Originally posted by China

Here are the leading rushers in each of Gibbs previous 12 seasons.

Year Rusher Yards

1981 Washington 916

1982 Riggins 513

1983 Riggins 1347

1984 Riggins 1239

1985 Rogers 1093

1986 Rogers 1203

1987 Rogers 613

1988 Bryant 498

1989 Riggs 834

1990 Byner 1219

1991 Byner 1048

1992 Byner 998

Just out of curiousity, when did we start 16 game seasons? Was it before Gibbs?

[Jumbo]

Originally posted by jpgirth

It's interesting that you compare Westbrook to Portis.

Let's see:

Portis 290 carries 1500+yds and 3 missed games 5.5ypc

Westbrook 117 carries 613yds 5.3ypc

It is also interesting how Portis has done this for two consecutive seasons. Was Westbrook even around two years ago, Oh yeah he was: 46 carries 193yds 4.2ypc

It is also interesting how you have a slanted arguement when it comes to the skins.

Who or what group of people was responsible for the superbowls, The Great Gazoo and his band of merrymen?

You'll probably pick someone or group of people that doesn't exist in the franchise any longer.

Another question, what stops the Eagles? According to you, the ultimate homer,Westbrook is on par if not better than Portis. Mcnabb is the best qb in the league, TO is better than Rice, your line is better than the hogs, the defensive rivals the steel curtain.

Your coach is the next coming of George Halas. Your front office is smarter than 49ers of the 80's, the skins of the 80's, the Cowboys of the 90's, the Steelers of the 70's.

So what's stopping the Eagles who have been favored the last two nfcc greatly and choked?:eaglesuck

:eaglesuck :point2sky

[Maxdavious]

Everyone is talking about yards which is of course a main point of interest. However, why doesn't anyone talk about the TD's Portis has scored (29) in two seasons!!!! You can rack up yards all you want, but TD's is what you really want. You can find high powered ofenses all over the place..take the Vikings. Sure even when RB M. Bennett got barely over a 1000 yards, he only scord like 5 or 6 TD's that season. So what? The Vikes usually can march up and down the field but when it comes to putting up points when they really need to..they usually choke. Point is, rack up all the yards you want, but I'll take TD's anyday. I say Portis will get at least 12 TD's this season!!!!!

[Streater101]

Originally posted by Pocono

Those stats are interesting Bubba. I mean you hear about the legend of the Hogs and Bugel but the yds per carry numbers over that span were clearly below average. Their average rank in yds per carry during those 12 years was 17th which is very close to bottom third when you consider there were fewer teams back then. I didn't figure it but it looks like the average per over that span is about the 3.9 yds per carry you averaged last year under Spurrier. Historically the average yds per carry in the NFL is a little over 4 per carry.

BTW...It's interesting that Portis only faced 2 top 11 D's on his way to compiling a 5.5 yds per carry average while Brian Westbrook faced top 11 run D's 9 times when he averaged 5.3 yds per carry last year. The 4.7 per that Portis averaged outside of his own conference was the same as the Eagle's 3 headed running attack averaged against much more potent run D's.

Thats a pretty ridiculous comparison. Portis has been a feature back for the past 2 seasons, while Westbrook has been placed on spot duty gettin about 5-10 carries a game. Why not wait to see what happens to that average when he has about 250 carries.

[Pocono]

Bubba....I have to disagree that total yds is a better indication of a running attack's ability than yds per carry. Total yds could just be an indication of a great D that stops the other team cold and allows for greater TOP. I agree Portis is much more likely to break off big runs than the bigger backs they had in Gibb's first run but the bigger backs were probably more capable of powering through tacklers and gaining an extra 1/2 yd or so or carries than Portis is likely to get in the same situation and over a ton of carries the two factors may even out. It should be interesting to watch.

It's funny how wrong I was when I said Bugel may have lost his touch and tried to justify it with the anemic yds per carry average they had during his 4 years in SD. The truth is when you make a slight adjustment for personnel and add in the fact that D's really couldn't scheme to stop your run in the 80's because Gibbs would kill them with the pass the below average yds per sort of even out. Spurrier's O actually had a better yds per carry average over his 2 years than Gibbs had over his 12 and only in one year during Gibb's run did he surpass the 4.3 yds per carry that Spurrier's team acheived in 02. I think these numbers don't bode well for this magical improvement you all seem to expect in the OL.

As for JP Dumbo and the other guy I agree that Portis is a much more valuable back than Westbrook. Westbrook would never survive the amount of carries Portis has done during his 2 years. My post was directed at earlier threads which compared the two team's running games and the general assertion around here that the two don't compare. This thread opened my eyes to how Portis feasted on weaker teams and so I checked and found that when the Eagle's running backs finished 3rd in yds per carry in the NFL and 2nd in TD's scored it was against much stiffer competition that that faced by Portis. Also thanks to Bubba's numbers it becomes apparent that this supposed Bugel driven improvement in the play of the OL is a myth so I think it would be wise for many here to rethink their evaluation of the 2 team's running games.

[bulldog]

Westbrook is not even a starting back, give me a break :laugh:

When you are in there for all three downs and the defense is keying on you, the job is a lot more difficult than if you are splitting time with Duce Staley and Buckhalter and you come in on third downs when the field is spread for McNabb to throw the ball

'Westbrook is as good as Portis'.........That is perhaps the dumbest comment I have EVER read on ExtremeSkins in three years folks :laugh: :laugh:

[Jumbo]

Originally posted by Pocono

Bubba....I have to disagree that total yds is a better indication of a running attack's ability than yds per carry. Total yds could just be an indication of a great D that stops the other team cold and allows for greater TOP. I agree Portis is much more likely to break off big runs than the bigger backs they had in Gibb's first run but the bigger backs were probably more capable of powering through tacklers and gaining an extra 1/2 yd or so or carries than Portis is likely to get in the same situation and over a ton of carries the two factors may even out. It should be interesting to watch.

It's funny how wrong I was when I said Bugel may have lost his touch and tried to justify it with the anemic yds per carry average they had during his 4 years in SD. The truth is when you make a slight adjustment for personnel and add in the fact that D's really couldn't scheme to stop your run in the 80's because Gibbs would kill them with the pass the below average yds per sort of even out. Spurrier's O actually had a better yds per carry average over his 2 years than Gibbs had over his 12 and only in one year during Gibb's run did he surpass the 4.3 yds per carry that Spurrier's team acheived in 02. I think these numbers don't bode well for this magical improvement you all seem to expect in the OL.

As for JP Dumbo and the other guy I agree that Portis is a much more valuable back than Westbrook. Westbrook would never survive the amount of carries Portis has done during his 2 years. My post was directed at earlier threads which compared the two team's running games and the general assertion around here that the two don't compare. This thread opened my eyes to how Portis feasted on weaker teams and so I checked and found that when the Eagle's running backs finished 3rd in yds per carry in the NFL and 2nd in TD's scored it was against much stiffer competition that that faced by Portis. Also thanks to Bubba's numbers it becomes apparent that this supposed Bugel driven improvement in the play of the OL is a myth so I think it would be wise for many here to rethink their evaluation of the 2 team's running games.

I thought the "dumbo" thing was pretty good but your reasoning as you make your points is highly suspect and more a matter of slants, spins, and seeing what you want to see...which I can identify at least a bit with the last ten years...

[bubba9497]

I have to disagree that total yds is a better indication of a running attack's ability than yds per carry.

we shall see won't we :laugh:

Gibbs offense's set records in points and total offense, and fewest sacks allowed, During his first run the NFC East was the toughest division in football with some very good D. now he has a solid young line with Portis the youngest fastest back he has ever coached.... will be interesting to watch

[jpgirth]

Originally posted by Pocono

Bubba....I have to disagree that total yds is a better indication of a running attack's ability than yds per carry. Total yds could just be an indication of a great D that stops the other team cold and allows for greater TOP. I agree Portis is much more likely to break off big runs than the bigger backs they had in Gibb's first run but the bigger backs were probably more capable of powering through tacklers and gaining an extra 1/2 yd or so or carries than Portis is likely to get in the same situation and over a ton of carries the two factors may even out. It should be interesting to watch.

It's funny how wrong I was when I said Bugel may have lost his touch and tried to justify it with the anemic yds per carry average they had during his 4 years in SD. The truth is when you make a slight adjustment for personnel and add in the fact that D's really couldn't scheme to stop your run in the 80's because Gibbs would kill them with the pass the below average yds per sort of even out. Spurrier's O actually had a better yds per carry average over his 2 years than Gibbs had over his 12 and only in one year during Gibb's run did he surpass the 4.3 yds per carry that Spurrier's team acheived in 02. I think these numbers don't bode well for this magical improvement you all seem to expect in the OL.

As for JP Dumbo and the other guy I agree that Portis is a much more valuable back than Westbrook. Westbrook would never survive the amount of carries Portis has done during his 2 years. My post was directed at earlier threads which compared the two team's running games and the general assertion around here that the two don't compare. This thread opened my eyes to how Portis feasted on weaker teams and so I checked and found that when the Eagle's running backs finished 3rd in yds per carry in the NFL and 2nd in TD's scored it was against much stiffer competition that that faced by Portis. Also thanks to Bubba's numbers it becomes apparent that this supposed Bugel driven improvement in the play of the OL is a myth so I think it would be wise for many here to rethink their evaluation of the 2 team's running games.

Pinnochio calls "The Bugel Driven Improvement a Myth"

Hey Stat Boy, just because carolina didn't have the number one ranked offense and defense doesn't mean they didn't kick your a$$ in the nfcc. As likewise for the Patriots winning the superbowl. The offensive line will greatly improve as it contributes to the overall game (pass blocking/runblocking).:eaglesuck

We just have a franchise back that has proven to be that. The scheme will vastly improve this talented line, Bugel will take it to the next level.

Portis won't have a problem this year except for maybe the Cowboys.

2003 against the rush

dallas-3, giants-18, eagles-22

2002 against the rush

dallas-15, giants-16, eagles-9

Pinnochio is going to state the drop off due to the injuries when the only major injuries were to Hollis Thomas who didn't play at all in 2002 or Mcdougle (rookie) where he didn't even register a sack all year and had 5 tackles, 1 solo. I'm sure Jevon Kearse will come up. Well here is Tennessee against the run.

2003-1 (Jevon played in 14 games)

2002-2 (Jevon played in 4 games this season)

Big difference:laugh:

[Darth Tater]

One year, 1990 I think, Byner's longest run from scrimmage was about 24 yards. The thing about the YPA under Joe Gibbs was that that was the amount of yards the run would get, we also WOULD NOT turn it over. Remember, even 3 carries at about 3.5 yards/pop will get you a first down every three plays and you will get to the end-zone. Offensive Football is about getting first downs and getting into the end-zone. Consitency like this is much more demoralizing to the opponent than anything. We were not like some of these flashy teams that get 5 YPA but that's because they go 60 yards on one play then get no yards on the next 11 carries. One TD and then a bunch of punts. This time around we'll see Portis pop those 60 yarders but he won't be shut down on the next several carries. He'll still be getting positive yards!

[Jumbo]

Originally posted by RC

One year, 1990 I think, Byner's longest run from scrimmage was about 24 yards. The thing about the YPA under Joe Gibbs was that that was the amount of yards the run would get, we also WOULD NOT turn it over. Remember, even 3 carries at about 3.5 yards/pop will get you a first down every three plays and you will get to the end-zone. Offensive Football is about getting first downs and getting into the end-zone. Consitency like this is much more demoralizing to the opponent than anything.

This the type of analysis that goes beyond "spin" or stats. Context always includes more than two ot three factors, esepcially if you're avoiding self-serving editing, if you want to get the most accurate picture of a team or player's season.

I'm with ya RC...You keep your offense on the field (including using a varied and opportunistic passing game) ya don't turn it over or regularly go three and out. AND you score.

Gibbs and his staff certainly didn't become more stupid than they were in the 80's. They'll learn whatever they need to regarding the changes in the league...you can see the evodence of that in their media comments.

I'd add one other "most demoralizing" factor I think we'll see our opponents deal with...despite all the concern about our (changed) D Line...we will generally be fielding a well-rested defense that can be fresh, fast, and very agressive with which GW will do very well. :point2sky