I'm a soldier, #@$ d@m!t!!!!!!

[bubba9497]

Originally posted by ccableguy

can someone clarify this i thought i read countless time that winslow sr. was the first hb, at san diego, i just dont want to go on using that if i'm wrong?

and as far as the soldier thing ,let it go. coaches do say their about to go to battle all the time. its just talk taht is in no way meant to be direspectful.

Winslow 1 never played H-back or ever lined up in that position. There was no H-Back before Gibbs came to the Redskins. Winslow lined as a TE or out like a WR. or in the slot or in motion. Gibbs uses the H-back mainly for blocking purposes

Three Super Bowl wins is impressive under any circumstance, but it is more remarkable considering the following: the Super Bowls were spread out over a nine-year period, each championship team featured a different QB-RB tandem, and only one Hall of Fame player to date on those rosters (RB John Riggins, although CB Darrell Green is a shoo-in to be inducted when eligible). With this in mind, Gibbs arguably was the NFL's best coach in the last 25 years.

Gibbs was an offensive innovator, popularizing three-WR sets and the notion of an H-back as a way to neutralize the pass rush of New York Giants LB Lawrence Taylor. A disciple of Don Coryell, Gibbs' displayed a strong knowledge of both the short and long passing games. Under Gibbs' guidance, even flawed QB talents like Mark Rypien and Jay Schroeder threw 20-plus TD passes per season. Meanwhile, relatively unheralded WRs like Charlie Brown, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders became legitimate fantasy stars.

http://kffl.com/static/ewire/nfl/sample_impact_reports.html

By PAUL TAGLIABUE

The strategies of the game will grow even more sophisticated and interesting. Football is characterized by being a constantly evolving game. New offensive ideas lead to new defensive ideas. A supremely talented player produces new tactics, as Joe Gibbs' Washington Redskins developed the H back and the double-tight end offense to deal with the Giants' Lawrence Taylor. This will continue.

http://www.sptimes.com/News/012601/Odyssey/Back_to_the_future.shtml

[Darth Tater]

bubba,

Niether of those sentences you quoted attribute the creation of the position to H-Back.

"the notion of an H-back..." KEYWORD: NOTION

Joe Gibbs' Washington Redskins developed the H back, not created it.

The position might not have been called H-Back, but it has been in offenses since the 60s.

I CAN TELL YOU I PLAYED H-BACK IN 1979 AT THE HS LEVEL!

[BG]

Originally posted by SkinsandTerps

This is one of the Saddest threads i have read here in some time.

Who really gives a crap that K2 called himself a soldier ??

My Dad is a "Nam Vet and My G'Father a WW2 vet and neither of them where offended.

A soldier is someone willing to die for a cause in which THEY believe in.

A player making millions who is already rich, ready to play til his hearts stops for the game he loves....

I will take him any day of the week to be a Skin.

Regardless of all of that the Skins are going to Draft the Best player available @ 5 otherwise move down and pick up an extra pick.

Joe Gibbs is one of the Greatest Coaches of all time and if some of you believe that a TRUE football fan (which Gibbs is) can just ignore the game for years then you should just go cheer for the Cardinals or the Eagles; because thats what they have always done.

Here here:cheers:

Taylor and Winslow are both more than worthy of the #5 pick.

If you honestly think they are no more worthy of that spot than the D-linemen in this class, you are on crack.

[bubba9497]

By PAUL TAGLIABUE >> Joe Gibbs' Washington Redskins developed the H back

Well I guess your High School was ahead of the time, The position of the movable blocker i.e. H-Back was delveloped, created, invented, devised whatever you want to call it when he came to Washington. Winslow lined up in multiple sets to get him free for the passing game, but he wasn't an H-Back.

Sure there was the offset I, the wishbone, TE lining up as a FB, but it was not an offense design in the NFL as Gibbs created with the H-Back. A pulling guard/FB/TE hybyrd.

[Darth Tater]

No offensive positions in football has been truly been 'created' since George Halas slid Sid Luckman under center. He took the Tailback and made him a what today is called a Quarterback. Actually, people had proposed this (some may have even tried it) for several years before although using it was considered a major factor in beating us 73-0.

Once again, the H-Back position was NOT CREATED by Joe Gibbs, unless you consider naming an already existing position 'creating the position'. KWSR played almost exclusively off the shoulder of and slightly behind the tackle or the TE in a one-back set and that is what defines the H-Back.

[bubba9497]

KWSR played almost exclusively off the shoulder of and slightly behind the tackle or the TE in a one-back set and that is what defines the H-Back.

Winslow lined up on the line, in the slot, as a wideout, as a FB/HB.

I was a big Winslow/ Air Corayal fan back in the early 80's late 70's

Although he was listed as a tight end, Winslow was used in many ways, particularly early in his San Diego tenure when the Chargers were stunning their foes with a seemingly unstoppable attack. Kellen sometimes lined up as a wide receiver, slot back, man-in-motion and even on occasion at halfback or fullback. The defense never knew from where he was coming or where he was going or even what to call him.

http://www.glorifythepast.com/news.php?newsid=171

The H-back position is not lining up behind the tackle off the line. In a single back offense, the H-Back is a second TE/or a FB that lines up in several position behind the line, (or goes in motion) to create mismatch blocking for the running game, or as as a double team, extra blocker on pass plays. On occassion the H-Back would be sent out in the formation but not as a rule.

Short passes have been around since the early days of the game, but Bill Walsh is the inventor, creator, developer, the notion of... what ever you want to call it, of the West Coast offense. He designed a new way of using the scheme, plays, formations.... etc....

Gibbs didn't create a 13th player, but took a hybrid of the TE and FB and used him in a new way, new formations, and way of game planning around that creation.

I have had my say. the floor is yours for the last word.

[Sowers]

I think that Winslow was an eminem fan and had just finished listening to "I'm a Soldier" a song on eminem's latest cd. All out of context ofcourse !! haha

[Darth Tater]

bubba,

The H-Back IS defined by were he lines up. All positions are. Positions in any formation define what the position is called (the only real exception these days is the QB who would really be the TB in a shotgun) combined with the designations of Knute Rockne and Pop Warner.

The main point I'm trying to make, however, is that it would NOT be incorect to call KWSR an H-Back (to choose not to would also NOT be incorrect). Your quote describes much of the pre-snap motion that you see in the position even with the Redskins of Joe Gibbs. What you really saw in Joe Gibbs use of the position was an evolution from a secondary formation to a primary formation and changing it from a primarily passing form to a running form. His use of motion was his real inovation -- the abiltity to change the angle of attack at the snap. The greatest genius of Joe Gibbs was not his set-piece X-Os but his ability to adapt the talent available to him to best attack his opponent.

BTW, the term H-Back probably derives from the fact that the position was originally filled by a motion by the Half Back (see descriptions of Wing forms). Most of the double-wing offensive playbooks designate the second wing as H in ace sets.

[PleaseBlitz]

Verse 1

Yo... Never was a thug, just infatuated with guns,

Never was a gangsta, till I

graduated to one

And got the rep of a villain, for weapon concealin'.

Took the image of a thug, kept

**** appealin'

willin' to stick out my neck,

for respect if it meant life or death,

never live to regret what I said

when you're me, people just want to see, if its true,

if its you, what you say in your rap's, what you do

so they feel, as part of your obligation to fulfill,

when they see you on the streets, face to face, are you for real

in confrontation ain't no conversation,

if you feel you're in violation, any hesitation'll get you killed

if you feel it, kill it, if you conceal it, reveal it.

Being reasonable will leave you full of bullets, pull it, squeeze it

till its empty, tempt me,

push me, pussies,

I need a good reason to give this trigger a good squeeze...

Chorus

I'm a soldier,

these shoulders hold up so much, they won't budge,

I'll never fall or fold up

I'm a soldier,

Even if my collar bones crush or crumble,

I will never slip or stumble

I'm a soldier,

These shoulders hold up so much, they won't budge,

I'll never fall or fold up

I'm a soldier, Even if my collar bones crush or crumble,

I will never stumble

Verse 2

I love pissin' you off, it gets me off, like my lawyers,

when the ****in' judge lets me off

all you mother****as gotta do is set me off,

I'll violate and all the mother****in' bets be off

I'm a lit fuse, anything I do bring it's news,

pistol whippin' mother****in' bouncers, six-two, who needs bullets?

Soon as I pull it, you sweat bullets,

an excellent method to get rid of the next bully

It's actually better cause instead you murderin',

you can hurt em' and come back again and kick dirt at em

it's like pourin' salt in the wounds,

assault and get sued, you can smell the lawsuits soon as I waltz in the room

everybody halts and stops, calls the cops,

all you see is ****es comin' out their halter tops

runnin' and duckin' out to the Hot Rocks parking lot,

you'll all get shot whether its your fault or not, cus...

Chorus

Verse 3

I spit it slow so these kids know that

I'm talkin' to em, give it back to these damn critics and sock it to em

I'm like a thug, with a little bit of Pac influence,

I spew it, and look how I got you ****es rockin' to it

you mother****as could never do it like I could do it,

don't even try it, you'll look stupid, do not pursue it

don't ever in your life, try to knock the truest,

I spit the illest ****, ever been dropped to two inch

so ticky-tock listen as the sound ticks on the clock,

Listen to the sound of Kim as she licks on a ****

listen to the sound of me spillin' my heart

through this pen, mother****ers know that

I'll never be Marshall again

Full of controversy until I retire my jersey,

till the fire inside dies and expires at thirty

and Lord have mercy on any more of these

rappers that verse me, and put a curse on

authorities in the face of adversity

I'm a...

Chorus

Yo Left, Yo Left, Yo Left, Right, Left

Yo Left, Yo Left, Yo Left, Right, Left

Yo Left, Yo Left, Yo Left, Right, Left

Yo Left, Yo Left, Yo Left, Right, Left

[GorditoShawn]

In 12 years of playing football, I have never had a football coach who didn't, at one point or another, equate the game to a battle. Though this may not be close to accurate, many players buy into the concept in order to A) give them a since of importance and get themselves pysched up. So Winslow saying he is a soldier is just evidence that he bought into this type of mentality, not that he was comparing himself to actual members of the armed forces.

I am sure even the most idolized of Redskins have once (if not consistantly) played with the mentality that they were a soldier in battle. This is often called mental imagery, the variety in which you put yourself in a life or deatch situation in order to increase performance. This is nothing new or offensive. So the fact that KWII said that he was a "SOLDIER" is nothing offensive, or for that matter immature, but rather something emotional. And if some of you don't remember a loss, particularly the first loss of the season (after a few wins) is particularly emotional.

I would further argue that we need more players with this type of fiery emotion. I don't want a team full of players who don't like to lose, I want a team full of players that hate losing with a similar fiery.

[No1SkinzFan]

Speaking as a fellow Airman of the United States Air Force and stationed at Osan AB, ROK, I for one did not take offense to what Kellen Winslow Jr. had to say. I still remember clearly after he said it, Mark May went ona similiar tirade saying he isn't a soldier and try putting on the uniform and that it was insulting to us military members blah blah blah.

Now I may be an Airman, but I am also 21 years old, and when Kellen Winslow said he was a ****in soldier, he simply meant that he puts everything he has into the game of football every second of the game, every down, every play. It was meant in no disrespect. He was pissed off at the referees. His hit on the opposing player was legal as hell, like he said, what is he supposed to do? Let his head get knocked off? He simply has his guard up all the time, and that is someone that makes **** happen on the football field.

Kellen Winslow would be a great addition to the team, I think the fact that Joe Gibbs is friends with his father would make a huge difference. Winslow not only loves the game of football, but has respect for it. Jr. that is. He plays it with all the heart and passion his father did. Now I agree he overreacted when he went off, but come on, Shaq, Steve Francis last night? Everybody overreacts when they are pissed off. It's life, get over it!

[JWB]

Anyone, when put in a very emotional situation, where, to play your hardest, need to be pumped up, would react that way. I agree with the above post. It was the heat of the moment c'mon guys.

However, I would rather see us take ANY defensive player in the draft.