NavyDave Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Sports reporting the Times has closed the gap OP/ Eds pieces its the Times by a mile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WM_Marylander Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Editorials? I don't know. Like Tony K or Wilbon or not, they're better than any of the Times guys. Boswell's ok at times. I enjoy his Orioles stuff. And I happen to like Tony most of the time (really sad his radio show's going off the air) and can tolerate Wilbon, though at times he's a bit much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I wasn't talking about sports when it came to Op/ EDs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Wilbon hasn't been high on the Skins for a while. That being said, I like his writing, and can atleast understand where he is coming from when he bashes the Skins. Len P...seems to have a grudge like Dr Z. Dr Z has said he has a grudge. Fine. You don't have to like the Skins or write positivly on them to be held in high regard on here. Dr. Z and Len P aren't held in very high regard because their writing comes across as having bias. Times vs. Post....Post, but only because I'm basing the vote on during the season. Lately the Times has been better for Skins news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Art Errors in the Times are the stuff of legend the last few years. From breaking the story that Jansen will leave in free agency on the very day he signed long term, to repeated, recent articles suggesting no one wants to work for the Redskins as coach, there is a LOT more here to work on to rehab a broken reputation. However, it is true they are doing a better job the last few weeks than the Post. Not only has there been a clear improvement as to the ability to first print news, but, the tone has shifted. Meanwhile, the Post can't seem to get out of the way of Nunyo learning on the job. He's produced articles with no attribution, with mistakes in spelling, with mistakes in player position identification. He is late to the party always repeating hours later news we've already seen elsewhere. He seems overmatched for the best sports beat in Washington at Washington's top newspaper. Honestly, the Post should bring Maske back to the Redskins beat and put Nunyo on the NFL beat. At most papers the NFL beat is a promotion. But with Gibbs in town, the choice job is the Redskins beat and the fans expect quality reporting. Give Nunyo the NFL beat and let him learn a little about a league he clearly lacks knowledge of for a few years. Then give him the Redskins. He certainly doesn't seem to deserve the position he has and I'm not sure how he got it. Though I don't always like content in the Post, it is generally fair to say the writers the post hires are wonderfully skilled in the craft of writing. Nunyo doesn't seem to have this. He seems to be ideally suited for a back woods job or less important beat where he'll go largely unnoticed. But he is a second-class writer of limited ability and that, more than the lack of content or sourcing he's brought to the table, is what's really painful to see. I agree 100% with everything Art said. I think this less about the Times getting better than the Post getting much, much worse. Copying AP stories, getting player positions wrong - this is basic stuff. You have to be on the ball in this town, where the Redskins beat is second only to the White House (and with Gibbs back, it's really #1). Thus far, Nunyo has done nothing to impress and done several things that have caused us to question his ability. Bring back Maske already! Oh, and SKINZ_DOMIN8 is totally a troll, and a whiny one at that. Find me one post he's made that isn't trying to incite something or personally attack someone. BD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne The Fan Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Om Can one froth hebetudinously? Drool maybe ... but froth? OK, I'll play. Sure one can froth hebetudinously. Think of a car stuck in the mud and the sound the tires make, or of an overly tired two-year-old who needs a nap but won't lie down. I think that's what Art's referring to (or maybe not, I shouldn't speak for him). To me, that's the sound of an SD post. But drool is good too; drool works. I'm going to run away now before SD tracks me down and blows up my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Ignore Om, Anne. He's still recovering from the breathtaking usage of the word . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citigent Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 until the last month i'd say the post easy but now i have to give the nod to the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Art He seems overmatched for the best sports beat in Washington at Washington's top newspaper. Honestly, the Post should bring Maske back to the Redskins beat and put Nunyo on the NFL beat. At most papers the NFL beat is a promotion. But with Gibbs in town, the choice job is the Redskins beat and the fans expect quality reporting. Give Nunyo the NFL beat and let him learn a little about a league he clearly lacks knowledge of for a few years. Then give him the Redskins. He certainly doesn't seem to deserve the position he has and I'm not sure how he got it. Though I don't always like content in the Post, it is generally fair to say the writers the post hires are wonderfully skilled in the craft of writing. Nunyo doesn't seem to have this. He seems to be ideally suited for a back woods job or less important beat where he'll go largely unnoticed. But he is a second-class writer of limited ability and that, more than the lack of content or sourcing he's brought to the table, is what's really painful to see. So Art you are saying you could do a better job then him :laugh: If I recall isn't it the editor's job to make sure the mistakes are not printed? Nunyo has never said anything that was completely wrong. They might be a littler slower then usual but Maske was exceptional. It is like putting Pettibone in Gibbs spot, there is going to be a big dropoff right away. Hopefully over time it will get back to somewhat decent. I just love how everyone on this board attacks a writer when none of us know the exact truth. For instance the entire Green thing he posted wrote about wasn't wrong. Green was considering coming back and him and Gibbs met a couple of times. He decided it was better for now not to come back because of other things going on in his life. Nunyo has been the first recently with actual dollar amounts on the new deals before anyone else. He might be reporting info he hears about from the AP and everything but this could be because his boss wants that for now. I don't think anyone here is his boss so none of us know what is really happening there. To put him in Pasta in the same breath just proves most of you are ignorant. Pasta at least makes it a point to attack. Nunyo is just doing a job. Then again I bet all of you would love people criticizing your work all the time, oh I forgot most of you are on this site while working :paranoid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 JB, An editor can't be expected to know a football team like a beat writer. An editor should protect Nunyo from names spelled incorrectly as happened in an article a few days ago. But, they can't protect Nunyo from positional references that are incorrect like happened yesterday. The beat writer has to know what he's talking about and often Nunyo does not. An editor did get ahold of him about his lack of sourcing, but, as I've actually BEEN a copy editor for a daily newspaper, there is only so much an editor can do when a story comes in and a deadline is at hand. He can pretty it up. Remove some garbage. Dictionary check words. But he can't rewrite the story on deadline. Could I do the Redskins job better than Nunyo? No. I'm too invested in the team. I'd be too clouded by my status as a fan to objectively cover the team. I could cover any other NFL team better than Nunyo covers Washington though . As a writer some of my best work was done on deadline when editors had to let my liberties go. I always got snapped down the next day though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Originally posted by Art JB, An editor can't be expected to know a football team like a beat writer. An editor should protect Nunyo from names spelled incorrectly as happened in an article a few days ago. But, they can't protect Nunyo from positional references that are incorrect like happened yesterday. The beat writer has to know what he's talking about and often Nunyo does not. An editor did get ahold of him about his lack of sourcing, but, as I've actually BEEN a copy editor for a daily newspaper, there is only so much an editor can do when a story comes in and a deadline is at hand. He can pretty it up. Remove some garbage. Dictionary check words. But he can't rewrite the story on deadline. Could I do the Redskins job better than Nunyo? No. I'm too invested in the team. I'd be too clouded by my status as a fan to objectively cover the team. I could cover any other NFL team better than Nunyo covers Washington though . Thanks for the info Art do you think it is possible his boss wants him to take AP and other stories just to get his feet wet untill they give him the keys to the ship and let him do what he wants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 No, JB. He was given the web beat to get his feet wet. He should be well prepared to hit the ground running and he's clearly not. He's, at best, an average writer in terms of style and voice. He clearly displays a lack of knowledge on the topic. He can't hide those limitations. Because he can't, he can't know exactly what to ask the sources to get the stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Horse Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Both the Times and Post have posted bogus stories. One sat on the Post page for days not too long ago. People always overlook stuff like that with the Post, so it leads me to believe there is already a preference in the Redskin community. I'm from Norfolk, so I never grew up with a preference or a bias towards one or the other. The Times, specifically Dan Daly, pisses me off a lot more than the Post, since Daly tends to be so smackish - in fairness, his opinion peices are often treated as articles and not editorial. However, the Times often delivers news whether it's good or bad. The Post is often hesitant, although I have noticed they have loosened their tie up a bit lately. If one were to only read the Post, they would certainly have rose tinted contacts. If one were to only read the Times, they would think the sky was falling. The truth, most times, usually lies somewhere in between the Time's bitterness towards Snyder and the Post's delivering of the Redskins' company line. PS. Any way to find my old profile? And what is Dogmattic up to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 Finally Art uses “breathtaking” in a sound context. And Anne, aptly, reminds everyone that even a slightly strained adjective, if but applied with sufficiently sagacious-sounding style, can tickle the inner etymologist in us all. It’s been a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 The Post doesn't employ people to "get their feet wet". I get my feet wet at internships and wrapups. I get my feet wet doing dirty jobs that no one wants to do. Like field hockey. Or baseball. I don't get my feet wet as the beat reporter for the Washington Redskins at the Washington Post. "The Job" for any sports reporter. Arguably, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarb Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I have no proof of this, but I theorize that Mark Maske got fed scoops by the Skins FO in return for favorable coverage. Maske DID always have the big news first, and he RARELY wrote negative stuff about the Skins. Maybe there wasn't a "deal." Maybe it just evolved that way. And maybe not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Living outside D.C. I only get to read the online versions of each. For a long time the post has been the leader in my book for SKINS coverage with redskins.com second, and the times third. Let me caveat that by saying, extremeskins is in a league of its own, and we all know that! However, recently although I still go to the post first, I found that the times articles have gotten better and the reporting quicker. With regards to the Post, I dont recall seeing a pic online of probably the biggest addition for the Redskins in years, with the signing of clinton portis. Had to get that from extremeskins. HTTR! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I cant really say whos better because i dont read the times at all but i know one thing for sure and that is this sally jenkins for the post. her last 3 or so columns has been bashing dan snyder and the entire fron office. she has also dissed gibbs and the coaching staff indirectly. if you guys read her article, it sounds alot like that len pasqueerly guy from ESPN. she is annoying and i wanna know one thing, how the hell did she ended up covering the redskins? I wanna go up to her face and tell her" i get it already. you hate snyder. Now get over it and write something new for once" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 FWIW, here's my perspective on the subject: Nunyo: Two years ago (Spurrier's first camp), he came up to me on the track around Biddle Field in Carslile and introduced himself as Liz Clarke's replacement as the Post's feature writer about the Redskins. Up until a few days before that, he's been a beat writer for the Seattle SuperSonics for a Seattle area paper. He said that he hoped that the Post would let him do some NBA coverage during the football offseason. I thought that he developed into an excellent feature writer. His articles were solid and in depth, well researched and written without an agenda. Good, solid reporting. It's kind of an odd dynamic at work now with Maske moving up to the paper's NFL guru and Demasio getting the beat job. Usually when you're the new beat writer, the old guy is no longer in the building. The Redskins' front office had Maske's phone on speed dial for whenever they wanted to leak a story. It doesn't appear that Nunyo has the same advantage, at least not yet. Maske: Grew up a Redskins fan, was careful not to write anything negative about the team. That helped him to curry favor in the front office. Daly: IMO, he has cut the sarcastic edge off of his commentary about the team and has become a much more reasonable critic. I've sat next to him in the press box at a number of games and he's very polite, quiet, and pensive. He's very much a sports historian and probably deserves a spot on the Pro Football Hall of Fame board of selectors more than others who are there. Fodelsey I'm not really sure about what his background is. His predecessor as the Times' main beat writer, Rick Snider, was a DC area born and bred Redskins fan, albiet a cynical one. To be sure, Snider started covering the Skins in 1993 and had reason to be skeptical. I ran into him at the Gibbs II introduction press conference and he seemed to be slightly regretful that he'd left the Skins' beat for that of U of Maryland. Bottom line is that supremecy for Skins coverage is very much up in the air. As much as I like Nunyo, he isn't Maske and as much as I'd like to be able to have one-stop shopping and just be able to check out the Post for breaking news, Nunyo doesn't always have the story. On the Times side, Daly is moving more towards reasoned critical comments as opposed to outright nasty attacks. Fodelsy is solid, although he has been working in the dark for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimReaper21 Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Nunyo isnt so bad. Although he has made a few mistakes, and is not as good as Maske, he has shown the potential to be a good beat writer. And when i heard him talk on ESPNews, he was very knowledgeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sick Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Originally posted by WM_Marylander The Times in general is a joke. Jimmy Johnson coming to the Skins article anyone? I won't read that Mooney paper unless I get it for free, I'm done with the Post, Baltimore Sun, and am completely bored otherwise. The Post overall is a more reputable paper. The Times is awful. :applause: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishomelette Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I do agree with rt in that I enjoyed reading 'Yos features as well. There's still hope for him I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraftNik Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 Art, I have forgotten what offensive lineman you are talking about that Lenny panned after signing with us. A guard prospect who doesn't project well at guard? Who was that again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 DN, This was back a couple of years with Rod Jones. In April of the year he wrote, quoting NFL people, that Jones was an excellent pick up who had wonderful projections as an in line blocker. In an article a few months later he wrote, without attribution, an article that essentially took back everything he'd written before. Jones only got to play a very short stint -- one half of one preseason game -- at guard where he just wrecked the Panthers before he had to cover for Samuels at tackle and he got hurt there later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lavarminator Posted March 11, 2004 Share Posted March 11, 2004 I didnt pay much attention to this at first when you all started this issue, but I can sure tell the difference in writing now. This new guy is terrible. I long for the days of Maske, who is quite a good guy. he answered tons of question for me and some other fans at camp last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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