Commander PK Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I was wondering how many people plan to go see "The Passion of the Christ" when it is released? You'd have to have been on Mars to miss all the controversy surrounding this film. I plan to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazz2 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I would like to see it. I have been on mars what contaversy. I heard something about it but I don't know the details please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Many Jewish people are concerned that this movie will start a rash of anti semitism. The crucifiction, and beating of Christ is said to be brutal and gratuitous, much more than what has been scene on film before. Mel Gibson directed and he has been accused by some as being an anti semetic, which he totally denies. There are some that believe the Jewish people are primarily responsible for the crucifiction of Christ. Some Jews have said publicly that they are worried that this movie will fan those flames. It's been a while since a film has generated this much controversy. Should be interesting. I for one am a Christian, and plan to see the film, but I don't think that this film is just geared towards Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'll see it (and I'm, ahhhm, Jewish). Don't know about the movie starting a "rash of ant-Semitism". There's plenty of it around for everyone even without Mel Gibson. About the Jews being blamed for Christ's crucifixion - well, I'd blame one Jew if I really had to, but I also blame one for killing Itzhak Rabin, much more recently. So what about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'll go, I went to see schindler's list and I never held it against the germans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blugene Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Going to the pre release screening on the 24th here in Richmond! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo da Magnificent Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'm planning to see it, if just to screen it for my kids, who also want to. Out of all the press on the movie, the only thing that truly bothers me is that *apparently* Mel Gibson made Pontus Pilate out to be some kinda nice ruler dude who reluctantly went along with the bloodthirsty Jews. That's a complete reversal of the role of the Romans and the history of Pilate at that time. I'll find out when I see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Waldo da Magnificent That's a complete reversal of the role of the Romans and the history of Pilate at that time. I'll find out when I see it. "Welease Woderwick!" is what remember of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I will see it, may wait for the DVD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blugene Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Waldo da Magnificent I'm planning to see it, if just to screen it for my kids, who also want to. Out of all the press on the movie, the only thing that truly bothers me is that *apparently* Mel Gibson made Pontus Pilate out to be some kinda nice ruler dude who reluctantly went along with the bloodthirsty Jews. That's a complete reversal of the role of the Romans and the history of Pilate at that time. I'll find out when I see it. Actually, the Romans weren't as bloodthirsty as everyone seems to think. You can't run an empire by killing everybody. The Romans were actually very political. Pilate sent Christ to Herod twice in order to have him judged by his own people hoping that they would condemn him. Herod, also could not condemn him. He was reluctant and even tried to bait the people into releasing Jesus by offering a choice releasing him or Barabbas (sp?), a murderer in a long forgotten custom or granting a pardon to a condemn man for passover. Keep in mind that I never said Pilate was some nice dude. We just don't know much about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 The interesting thing about this is why are the Jews so upset when they were partly responsible for the death of Christ? Remember they don't believe he was the son of god just another person who broke the law and was punished for it. The were oppressed by the Romans during this time and the acutal Jews of today have barely any resemblance to the ones then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 979guy Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 And hey - would Jesus have become what he did along the ages had he not been crucified? So in effect we made him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Uhh, I am a Christian and do plan on seeing the film, but... The Romans killed Jesus. Crucifixion was a Roman punishment reserved for political insurgents. The fact that Jesus was being recognized as the Messiah would have stirred fears of an uprising, and likely would have prompted his execution. A few Jews like Caiaphus may have been complicit, just as a handful of Jewish people tried to save their own skin by cooperating with the Nazis, but the majority supported him; which is again what likely hastened his execution. Historical documents of the time (ie Josephus) paint a pretty vile description of Pilate. The controversy is essentially religion versus history. The religion of the New Testament seems to absolve the Romans of any blame. Seeing as how the Gospels were written a generation after the events they describe, and in an era when Christians were trying desparately to escape being identified as a Jewish sect following Roman hatred resulting from the Jewish revolt, their historical value from a strictly sceular perspective is quite suspect. Historical documents indicate that the Sanhedrin did not meet at night, had the authority to execute non Roman citizens without the permission of the empire, Pilate was a ruthless dictator, and that crucifixion was carried out only against insurgents (the word translated as thieves can also be translated as insurgents). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by riggo-toni The religion of the New Testament seems to absolve the Romans of any blame. Sorry Riggo you are wrong. I am a catholic and in chuch we say "crucified under Puntious Pilate" we never say jews at all, the blame is on Pilot no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanjoe Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by blugene Actually, the Romans weren't as bloodthirsty as everyone seems to think. You can't run an empire by killing everybody. The Romans were actually very political. Pilate sent Christ to Herod twice in order to have him judged by his own people hoping that they would condemn him. Herod, also could not condemn him. He was reluctant and even tried to bait the people into releasing Jesus by offering a choice releasing him or Barabbas (sp?), a murderer in a long forgotten custom or granting a pardon to a condemn man for passover. Keep in mind that I never said Pilate was some nice dude. We just don't know much about him. Good point. Also, Pilates wife is recorded in Matthew 27:19 as saying " Have nothing to do with that just Man, for I have suffered many things today in a dream because of Him." Although Pilate may have been a brutal Roman leader, I think he was battling his gut instincts in the judgement of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I'm planning on seeing it, controversy only drives audiences to want and come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanjoe Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I plan on seeing it the first day it comes out. I heard some churches are renting whole theaters on opening day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 I think thing that upsets Jewish people is that the movie makes out like Pilate is a nice guy who only has Jesus killed because the Jews ask him to do it......the movie ignores a lot fact about Pilate and his blood thirstyness..........this isn't how history records things and neither does the New Testament......the biggest problem is that you are going to have thousands of priests and preachers...bishops etc...telling their flock to go see the movie because it is a great and accurate depiction of Christ and they will use the movie as a promotion tool for Christianity....a lot of ignorant people are going to assume the movie is very factual and this could lead to a backlash against the Jews...of which I am one.....I hate it when someone tries to stick their religion in my face and if someone starts giving me **** ....I will deck them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Funkyalligator I think thing that upsets Jewish people is that the movie makes out like Pilate is a nice guy who only has Jesus killed because the Jews ask him to do it Funky the upperclass Jews didn't want him around. What is so interesting is why do Jews care if they don't believe he is the son of god, if this is just a normal man why all the uproar? That is what I am interested to know. We also have to take this film with the attitude how they felt back then not how we feel now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 It's a movie. If you dont like what it says, dont see it. I cant wait to see it. Not for the story, or the controversy, but the reviews of the production are phenominal. THAT is what Im looking forward to seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Kilmer17 It's a movie. If you dont like what it says, dont see it. I cant wait to see it. Not for the story, or the controversy, but the reviews of the production are phenominal. THAT is what Im looking forward to seeing. Have you seen some of the previews, WOW, what is amazing is the main actor almost died a couple of times filming this, and once was hit be lighting while on the cross. The actress that plays the Virgin Mary even got pregnant during the filming. Very interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatFischer37 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Since I seem to be the only Jew on this board, I will give my point of view I am all for freedom of speech and the freedom to express religious beliefs..christianity, muslim, buddism, and of course judiasm. Of course the entire movie going population knows of the talent of one Mel Gibson...Braveheart should be a great indicator to all doubters. If I am to have a fear about the release of this movie, it depicts this film as history and not as someone's interpretation of history. I am a conservative jew which indicates that although I have links with all sects of jewish people throughout the world...my judiasm does not resemble the same judiasm as the same as the ultra-orthodox that live in around the old city of Jerusalem, nor the same Judiasm of those buiding settlements in the occupied West bank who deplore any right of any Palestinians the right to their own existance. For the most part, I believe in my heart that most who will see this movie, will be moved by the creative nature of the movie and will not inappropriately judge current day Jewish people for events that may or may not have happened 2000 years ago. However, I can always be wrong ...look at hate inspired events currently happening in Western Europe and sporatic hate crimes done by hate groups in the US who will use this movie inappropriately to fan their hate message to those that are naive enough to be pursuaded by ignorance rather than truth. I too would like to see this movie but only to entertain..not to find a scape goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by jbooma Sorry Riggo you are wrong. I am a catholic and in chuch we say "crucified under Punches Pilate" we never say jews at all, the blame is on Pilot no one else. I believe much of this has to do with a rapprochement the Vatican made with Jews in the aftermath of WWII following criticisms that the Vatican had been to some degree complicit in the Holocaust. Ultra-conservative Catholics like Gibson do not agree with/approve of what they see as an erosion of core beliefs to make their religion more palatable to the public. Gibson, for example, insists on attending Latin mass, despite a papal edict (I believe by John the 23rd) that mass should be held in the local language. This movie is Gibson trying to promote the conservative early Catholic traditional view of events, as opposed to the more recent conciliatory interpretations. He is not doing so because he is an anti-Semite, but rather because he devoutly espouses earlier traditions. (BTW, pardon my nitpicking, but it's spelled Pontius). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Funkyalligator I think thing that upsets Jewish people is that the movie makes out like Pilate is a nice guy who only has Jesus killed because the Jews ask him to do it You saw the movie already? I'm still not getting how ordering Jesus' death makes him out to be a "nice guy"... the movie ignores a lot fact about Pilate and his blood thirstyness That's becasue the movie is about Jesus not Pilate. lot of ignorant people are going to assume the movie is very factual and this could lead to a backlash against the Jews. Well, Mel said he's going by the Bible word for word whether you believe the bible is fact or not is up to you I'd like to know where all this backlash is going to come from though. Please inform me of the type of people that would get upset at the Jews? Can't be Christians....well, at least not the ones who believe the bible. Muslims? Canadians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by riggo-toni I believe much of this has to do with a rapprochement the Vatican made with Jews in the aftermath of WWII following criticisms that the Vatican had been to some degree complicit in the Holocaust. Ultra-conservative Catholics like Gibson do not agree with/approve of what they see as an erosion of core beliefs to make their religion more palatable to the public. Gibson, for example, insists on attending Latin mass, despite a papal edict (I believe by John the 23rd) that mass should be held in the local language. This movie is Gibson trying to promote the conservative early Catholic traditional view of events, as opposed to the more recent conciliatory interpretations. He is not doing so because he is an anti-Semite, but rather because he devoutly espouses earlier traditions. Riggo very good point. I am still curious why jews would care if Jesus to them was a criminal and not the Son of God? This is what is interesting to me the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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