bubba9497 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Black QBs lament Limbaugh's comments http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/football/nfl/specials/playoffs/2003/01/29/bc.fbn.superbowl.blackq.ap/index.html HOUSTON (AP) -- Some retired black quarterbacks want to help their modern-day counterparts deal with the extra scrutiny of being a high-profile minority player in the NFL. Rush Limbaugh's comments about Donovan McNabb earlier this season reminded them that black quarterbacks still aren't on equal footing in all respects. Warren Moon, Doug Williams and other former NFL quarterbacks said Thursday they've formed "The Field Generals" to serve primarily as a support group for players. "As a quarterback -- I don't care who you are -- there's going to be some of those days," said Williams, the first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl. "As a black quarterback, sometimes they're a little tougher." Black quarterbacks have made great inroads since Marlin Briscoe broke a barrier and started for Denver in 1968. Briscoe is one of six founders of the new group. "There are some ups and downs in terms of their public persona and I guess Rush Limbaugh lends credence to that, but I think black quarterbacks today are judged more by performance on the field than we were," Briscoe said. Limbaugh put the spotlight on them early this season, when he said in his role as an ESPN sports analyst that the Eagles quarterback was getting gentle treatment from the media because he was black. "The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well," Limbaugh said on Sunday NFL Countdown. "There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team." Limbaugh's comments caused a furor, and he resigned from ESPN. McNabb went on to lead Philadelphia to its third straight NFC title game. Moon, who ranks third all-time in NFL passing yards, talked to McNabb and was impressed with how he dealt with Limbaugh's comments. "He knows he's getting a great opportunity to play this game, but he knows everything is not going to always be rosy," Moon said. "There's still stereotypes out there, there's still prejudice and bigotry out there." The quarterbacks hope that the NFL's emphasis on interviewing minorities results in more black coaches and front-office personnel. They'd like to see blacks considered for those jobs the way they are for roster spots. "The bottom line today: If the kid can play, I don't think the color of his skin is going to matter because everybody is trying to get to where we are today -- the Super Bowl," Williams said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 LOL once again it seems people are taking something that wasn't said and using that as their clarion call to action. It was never said that all black QBs can't play or even that McNabb was a bad QB, but that McNabb(not all black QBs, but this could be a trend) was given more praise than he deserved because of his race. And in the aftermath of that and his streak of good play and then his collapse in the NFC Title game, I think it was proven correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 And in the aftermath of that and his streak of good play and then his collapse in the NFC Title game, I think it was proven correct. What MAY have been proven correct was that McNabb is overrated. It was absolutely NOT, NOR EVER WILL BE proven correct that he was overrated by the media BECAUSE he was black. McNabb was overrated for the same reason Garcia (a couple years ago) or Manning (I know Manning is good, but he's not as good as the god the media makes him out to be) was overrated... because he and his team have enjoyed recent success and the media loves to love a winner. What Limbaugh said was NOT racist... but it WAS stupid in that he couldn't see the real and obvious reason McNabb was overrated. It also was annoying because even though his statement wasn't racist, it falsely accused the media of being racist (ie preferring black QBs) and brought racism into the spotlight again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Terp Do you recall that part in Remember the Titans where Coach Boone benches Petey and the white assistant coach puts him on defense? He was coddling the kid, in part, because he was black. He didn't do the same with the white kids. If you listened to the pundits, read the columns that overstated McNabb's credentials and performance this year and basically engaged in hagiography, the impression I got was one of paternalism towards McNabb(or race cheerleading like Wilbon.) I don't think the ENTIRE media was guilty of what Limbaugh said, but certainly some of them. They would not have gone so overboard in their fawning if it had been a white QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. D Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Agreed ghost. I was all ready to explode with vigor agin the hyppocrites but I have found that this board is usually smarter that the rest of the general populace. If I remember correctly Rush was talking to(and about) members of the media and the societal trend(kid gloves with minorities) behind it. McNabb as a QB simply is. his statistics and importance can be inspected ad nauseum with blind statistics. As usual there are always those that try to exploit. Path of least resistance and all. malleable weak minds have no limit to the crap that can be poured into it. hello, McNabb is overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Yeah yeah media exploited Rush..... who gives a crap. I expected that from the media cause it's part of their job. Bottom line is this though. What ever the color of your skin may be, Mcnabb is indeed overrated. Just a reminder to be a great successful super bowl winning QB, you have to be a classic stay in the pocket think pass first type of QB. It is rare a scambling Qb wins super bowls and are considered a "great" QB in the nfl. Scrambling QBs might work in college but not in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Ghost and Dr D, I did not see the movie you mentioned, but I certainly disagree with your assessment of the media's "paternalistic" treatment of McNabb. You have your opinion and I have mine, but you certainly cannot say that the Limbaugh comment was proven correct. Moreover, my explanation of why he is overrated (simply that the media goes overboard in praising a winner) explains the media's overrating of every overrated QB (that was a mouthful)... while your explanation is more complicated and only explains why McNabb is overrated. Usually the simpler yet more powerful explanation tends to be the truth. In my mind, there is no difference between the way the media went crazy over Manning until he almost single-handedly lost the game for the Colts and the way the media went crazy over McNabb before his ugly performance against the Panthers. It's just the media being the media. But you certainly have the right to your opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Except there's this: Manning had given people a reason to go crazy. McNabb had a mediocre performance at best(despite the rushing up an empty secondary lol) in the GB game and was being hailed as "ready for the next level." Then Wilbon writes a long article about a QB being responsible for his team's playoff loss. About Mcnabb right? No about Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I agree with terpSkin 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Terp is absolutely correct. McNabb may be overrated, but then again, so is the entire Eagle organization, of which McNabb is the frontman. I wouldn't call Rush's comment racist either, just ignorant beyond words. Oh, and the entire race issue was made up in Remember the Titans. I liked the movie, but it was 75% fiction, including that speech about coddling the black players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Whats with this cheerleader pic everytime i post a reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Henry Oh, I'm not saying that incident was true, I read up on it and saw that a lot was made up or "dramatized" as Hollywood likes to say. But the fact is that happens and that's what the movie was drawing attention to, and so it's still an appropriate example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfanforlife Whats with this cheerleader pic everytime i post a reply? http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46753&highlight=for+the+newbies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Ghost, I don't think the ENTIRE media was guilty of what Limbaugh said, but certainly some of them. Given that you believe this, let's look into the following: If I were to say that "white people like to see black QBs fail," would that be an intelligent comment? That comment is not racist... it is an accusation of racism. Certainly some white people want to see black QBs fail, afterall there still exist organizations like the KKK that hate blacks. But the vast majority of white people do not want to see black QBs fail so it was a stupid comment that probably would anger a lot of white people. Certainly there are probably a handful of journalists who wanted to see McNabb do well just because he was black, but for the same reason that the above hypothetical statement is stupid, Limbaugh's comment was stupid. And for the same reason that a white person would be justified in getting upset over the above hypothetical statement, a black person would be justified in getting upset over Limbaugh's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 What gets me is these people thinking or believing that rush's comment about mcnabb was actually racial. It makes me laugh so hard because Im like "how the hell did you convey it like that?" If you read or listen to rush's remarks carefully there weren't any racist remarks towards mcnabb wahtsoever. Aftermath of it all is one man losing his job and the other being praised for no freaking reason. Everybody feeling sorry for mcnabb when infact all rush said was "mcnabb was overrated" practicing his freedom of speech last time i checked we do have freedom of speech right? anyway if i was in mcnabb's shoes at the time i would said something like this "rush is entitled to his own opinion and i respect that. if he thinks im overrated thats fine. i can live with it. it wont bother me. i wont lose sleep over it... blah blah " and go on with your freakin life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by TerpSkin What MAY have been proven correct was that McNabb is overrated. It was absolutely NOT, NOR EVER WILL BE proven correct that he was overrated by the media BECAUSE he was black. McNabb was overrated for the same reason Garcia (a couple years ago) or Manning (I know Manning is good, but he's not as good as the god the media makes him out to be) was overrated... because he and his team have enjoyed recent success and the media loves to love a winner. What Limbaugh said was NOT racist... but it WAS stupid in that he couldn't see the real and obvious reason McNabb was overrated. It also was annoying because even though his statement wasn't racist, it falsely accused the media of being racist (ie preferring black QBs) and brought racism into the spotlight again. I think you got it pretty much right TerpSkin. However, I disagree that Fatbaugh didn't know WHY McFlabb is overrated. He's made a career of observing and commenting on the media for a long time. He's well aware of the truth as well as what will get him high ratings and the fawning admiration of "Dittohead Nation". Guess which one he's going to go for ? He's no different than the "Poverty Pimps" he harps about. Like them, he pimps an issue (made up or otherwise) to make a living. Furthermore, in hindsight I think Fatbaugh probably decided that once his drugging was discovered he'd probably be fired from his gig at ESPN anyway so why no go out in a blaze of glory? Put simply, I have no respect for the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Oh, I'm not saying that incident was true, I read up on it and saw that a lot was made up or "dramatized" as Hollywood likes to say. I'm not saying your saying that, Ghost. It just always bugged me that the movie gave us white folks such a bad rap, and so I thought I'd point it out here. Wilbon is not 'the media.' He has always pushed his own agenda, but then again Kornheiser is always calling him an idiot. In general I think there's a little more balance than Rush gives the sports media credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan913 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 In my mind McNabb is NOT overrated he just does not have the recievers he needs. If and when TO goes to the Eagles we shall see how overrated he is. You guys cannot actually be serious in thinking a QB that has taken his team to the NFC championship 3 times in a row with no true #1 reciever is overrated. Give me a break!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan913 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 It just always bugged me that the movie gave us white folks such a bad rap, and so I thought I'd point it out here. A bad rap? Now that's funny!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 While Wilbon certainly has had an axe to grind in the past regarding race in sports, I think Manning was in fact a better choice for the subject of his column. Manning had been red hot going into that game and unlike McNabb actually had some real offensive weapons to work with. Also, two of McNabb's interceptions were due to his WR's not staying with their routes. Mannings picks were mostly poor throws that never should have been made. Additionally, Manning is hailed as the audible king and should have audibled to the run a lot more than he did. In this case, I think it's clear that Manning choked while McNabb never had much of a chance with his WR's dropping every other pass and breaking off routes etc. I'm no McNabb fan. However, it would be interesting to see what kind of QB he'd be in a different system with at least one very good NFL WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Quick question for those of you who think Rush hit the nail on the head... do you honestly believe that if McNabb was white, and had thrown for 13051 yards, with 87 TDs and 49 INTs, rushing for 2239 yards and 17 TDs in 4 seasons leading his team to the playoffs four times and to the NFC championship game three times, that he would not be glorified by the media? If your honest answer is "yes," than I am simply put... flabbergasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 FOR YOSUF Michael wilbon praied mcnabb talking about mcnabb endured all the BUll**** he had to go through and that he was the man after the playoff win against the packers. How come he didnt write a column about mcnabb when they lost to the panthers? You think mcnabb is overrated but FATBUAH doesnt know why MCNABB is overrated? DUDE rush is a fan of football that talked about football when he was with ESPN cause the was his job just like Michael Wilbon. Just like RUSH , Im sure wilbon has never played organized football but when wilbon writes a column and just cause its positive and not negative you think rush is wrong? While we are on this subject lets say just about all media have never played organized football . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Not sure Terps But even you must recognize there is such a thing as "Degree." If a Halll of Fame QB like Troy Aikman said that this same QB was one of the most inaccurate passers he'd ever seen, I think there'd be a lot of back and forth about it. Plus, when I read Rick Reilly fawning over Dean Smith's lefty politics and assuming that anyone who disagrees with him is somehow not conscientious---and then I hear Mitch Albom. And then I extrapolate from all the white, "pat blacks on the head" paternalists I've ever met or read or heard---then I can say it wouldn't matter if this white QB were "praised." The degree and the reaction to criticising him or the appraisal of him would be the issue. You can be paternalist and still bloviate on any number of issues and embrace white players. It's like talking about race issues and living in an all-white suburb or talking about school vouchers and how evil the idea is when you're a pub school teacher that sends your kids to private school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by skinsfan913 It just always bugged me that the movie gave us white folks such a bad rap, and so I thought I'd point it out here. A bad rap? Now that's funny!:laugh: With regards to the 1971 TC Williams football team, yes, the movie puts white people of Northern Virginia in an extremely overexxagerated bad light. As someone who's family was living in this area during that time, it bugged me a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 A great QB does not need GREAT wide recievers. A GREAT QB MAKES great wide receivers. Great Wide recievers DO make average QBs look great. So if TO goes to Philly, I expect Runovans numbers to improve. That doesnt mean he's as good as the media desperately tries to paint him to be. Why does Tom Brady look so great with WRs no better than Philly's? Why does Jake Delhommme? Brad Johnson has had identical numbers for the last 3 years with worse WR talent, worse Oline talent, and no running game. But he has a ring..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.