Troy Fakeman Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Apparently If you say the word 'black'.......you get in trouble..... Its kind of like this whole stink about Eminem's old lyrics that people have found....He says the word 'black' a couple of times....and people flip out...saying he is racist.... Yah ok, Eminem is racist....and he hates Dr. Dre, 50 Cent, and all his other friends. Jackasses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Henry What really struck me was that it was NORTHERN VIRGINIA, right near DC. I never thought of it as being that racist a place. Heck, my grandma's ancestors were able to live in VA in a way they couldn't in the rest of the south. Called the "Black-and-White Coles" they had people who "passed" and genuine mixed race folks and didn't seem to have huge problems. But it's Hollywood and you knew it was going to go down that road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Terpskin and henry, I agree. Let's set aside the fact that McNabb is or isn't overrated. In fact, let's assume he is. Is it because he's black? Well, where's the proof? A couple of Wilbon articles? There are other variables that might make him overrated - he's a nice guy, he's a young QB in a large market, he did get his team to the playoffs in his first complete year of being a starting QB, and at the time that Limbaugh made those comments, he had gotten his team to the NFC Championships twice in a row. But Limbaugh lazily assumed that McNabb was overrated because of the liberal sports media - without providing a scintilla of evidence that race is the variable that made McNabb overrated (assuming that he is.) If you listened to the pundits, read the columns that overstated McNabb's credentials and performance this year and basically engaged in hagiography, the impression I got was one of paternalism towards McNabb(or race cheerleading like Wilbon.) Maybe Bufford, but you also forgot to mention that there were a bunch of articles that criticized McNabb for playing so poorly in the Tampa game, and giving up key interceptions in the Tampa and Rams game. McNabb was raked over the coals almost as much as he has been praised - and he was simply getting vilified during the Eagles' early-season loss. And just because he was praised doesn't mean that it was because he was black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Limbaugh cvomment about McNabb, however inadvisable, was an editorial comment. This type of comment need not be proven true but only must be possibly true. That it is possibly true is proven here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Iggle you actually quoted me. But I don't think even Limbaugh was saying he was praised JUST because he was black. Like I said, it's a matter of degree. Now to really flip the script, I'll give you my insight onto the complains about "celebrations" in football. I think some of it is founded in whites uncomfortable with young, exuberant black men acting out. So I come from all sides on these issues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Whoops, sorry Ghost. About the celebrations - I have to recuse myself since McNabb did that stupid 'Thriller' thing against the Skins. Hard for me to get all sanctimonious now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Limbaugh cvomment about McNabb, however inadvisable, was an editorial comment. RC, I agree and that's why, despite my disagreement with Rush, I wasn't thrilled with him getting fired. He should have been allowed to stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Iggle limbaugh said mcnabb was overrated at the time because the eagles were 1-2 buddy and mcnabb was sucking so bad. His numbers were awful. So limbaugh's comment was timely appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 limbaugh said mcnabb was overrated at the time because the eagles were 1-2 buddy and mcnabb was sucking so bad. His numbers were awful. So limbaugh's comment was timely appropriate. Skinsfan, he was talking about McNabb as a player, not just that stretch when he was playing poorly. Certainly McNabb wasn't overrated during that period when he sucked; in fact, all the articles at that time were 'why is he so bad', not 'boy is McNabb great'. Limbaugh also said that McNabb 'wasn't that good from the get-go' - so he had been talking about McNabb's career, not just that one period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The context of what he said was that McNabb was carried by a great defense and special teams. That's an accurate portrayal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The context of what he said was that McNabb was carried by a great defense and special teams. That's an accurate portrayal. Kilmer, but that also neglects McNabb's contributions. Also, McNabb didn't have the benefit of a great defense this year and yet he duplicated his team's previous successes (and admittedly, his team's failures....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 He enjoyed the same benefit of defense as Jake Delhomme. But Delhomme isnt propped up like McNabb. Im not saying he sucks (although there I times I think that). Im saying that he is OVERRATED, which is what Rush said. And it's true. He's not an elite QB. He lacks to skills. He IS, however, a true threat and a team leader. Although I think his reccent comments about needing playmakers at WR slaps the face of his current teammates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 There are several truths that should be noted. One, Limbaugh didn't criticize race, he criticized the media, and look what happened to him. Not only did he lose his job, but all of a sudden his drug addiction is splashed all over the papers, and his life goes on an immediate downward spiral. Moral: Don't F with the media machine. It is EXTREMELY powerful. 2. F-ing with the media machine .. everything,, and i mean EVERYTHING except maybe C-Span is geared towards entertainment. ESPECIALLY so-called news media. Find the most disgusting, bloody thing you can, and show it off all over the place in stop action slow motion etc. The media damn sure WOULD like to see a minority QB win the super bowl, and why? Because it is an easy story to write. It sells itself. there's a million billion stupid angles that they can play up for that with VERY little effort. Minimal work leading to maximum exposure and profitability. 3, and most importantly, I've heard the term "freedom of speech" floated around in this thread. Understand, you have NO such thing as freedom of speech. Hell, the number of basic freedoms you have are dwindling away as it is, but freedom of speech has been long long dead. Sure, you can SAY anything you want. but if you say it loud enough and in the presence of ears who don't like it, then they have the 'freedom to crush you', they have the 'freedom to use enormous resources to absolutely destroy you".. they have the freedom to exercise THEIR rights to completely ignore the issue you originally spoke about, and smear you. Kinda like Limbaugh's comments led directly to his being outed for pain killer addiction. It's a fish on a bicycle. Do I think the media hyped McNabb because he was black? I don't think so, not really as the way that has been bantered around. I think if the Eagles hadn't won all those games since he's been there, we'd probably never hear much about him at all. I think McNabb has received some attention because he's black. Let's face it, media especially always has felt it is their obligation to show that they are tuned to sensitive issues so they can appeal to the largest audience possible.. So, they are conscious of the fact that McNabb is black, and they know that his success makes their jobs easy. Black quarterbacks have had to answer silly questions forever, and probably will forever. But overall, I think the media will pursue those who give them good copy. Manning will talk, and he will say what's on his mind. He's a good interview. McNabb is a personable guy, he has a good smile. He's well spoken and he's usually talking about a win. When was the last time you saw Jake DelHomme before the last couple of weeks? Even thru the whole season, why talk to him? You may have seen a piece here and there, but people don't know who he is in week 4 or 7.. he's not a high profile draft choice.. Same with a guy like Matt Hasselbeck.. Trent Green, ..Marc Bluger.. You don't see those guys always yakking on TV because you don't know them by sight. McNabb, Manning, you know them instantly, you know them for their exploits on the field, their draft position, the big college programs.. plus the fact that they account for so much of their offense. Will the media hype things to make theirt job easier? Sure they would. Will they hope that a story like "minority QB in the Super Bowl" comes along? Hell yes, they would, that stuff sells papers and gets you tuned into the TV. Would they actively do anything to manipulate that? I don't know, but I wouldn't go around acting all shocked if they did.. I think Rush has a point in how the media can manipulate things, however, I think he was wrong about McNabb. He IS overrated, but that's because people think he's a better passer than he is. However, overall he is NOT overrated, because the number one most important stat for any QB is the WIN. And he does win a lot of football games. Just not when it really matters. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Im not saying he sucks (although there I times I think that). Im saying that he is OVERRATED, which is what Rush said. And it's true. He's not an elite QB. He lacks to skills. He IS, however, a true threat and a team leader. Although I think his reccent comments about needing playmakers at WR slaps the face of his current teammates. Kilmer, earlier I wrote that for argument's sake I agreed that he was overrated. My focus was on Limbaugh's pointing to the supposed liberal sports media for making him overrated, when there were other, more convincing reasons why he was supposedly overrated. As for his comments about needing playmakers, at this point I really can't blame him for slapping the faces of his current teammates. After the way the Panthers CBs slapped them around, they should be well-acclimated to it. But yeah, it could hurt the team dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 regardless of what limbaugh said LOOK man, mcnabb is overrated because he thinks run first and pass second. yeah sure he has success. he gets his passing yards and he gets his rushing yards but to say that mcnabb is "great" is over doing it. sure he takes the eagles to the nfc title games but is that enough to say he is "great" and who labels mcnabb as a "great" QB? the media. but to me mcnabb is another cunningham. mcnabb just like cunningham will not win a super bowl cause in my mind to win a super bowl u have to be that classic stay in the pocket think pass first type of QB. it is rare that scambling qbs win super bowls. u can have great scambling qbs in college winnning national titles but not in the nfl. totally different system. lastly just cause somebody has a great yr or two doesnt mean u can label him as a "great" player. should use that word "great" wisely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Fair enough. But it begs the question, if Rush was wrong in his assumption of the reason, then why DOES the media overrate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 I think Rush has a point in how the media can manipulate things, however, I think he was wrong about McNabb. Bang, good post. I would just note that Rush is part of the media. Sometimes he's the manipulator, this time he was the manipulatee. What comes around.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The context of what he said was that McNabb was carried by a great defense and special teams. That's an accurate portrayal. Actually kilmer hit it on the note. thats exactly what limbaugh said so all of u who keep saying limbaugh just said mcnabb is overrated and dont know why mcnabb is overrated are wrong cause limbaugh did back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 The context of what he said was that McNabb was carried by a great defense and special teams. That's an accurate portrayal. Skinsfan, I repeat: saying that McNabb was carried by the defense neglects McNabb's contributions. If Doug Pederson had started for the Eagles in 2000, 2001, and 2002, I seriously doubt that the Eagles would have been as good as they were. Additionally, the Eagles had a good defense - even in the dark days of Ray Rhodes' last year. The defense was, for the most part, the same in the years in 1999 and 2000. The major difference between those two years (which were 5-11 and 10-6 with a playoff win) was McNabb's maturation and being the starting QB. And again, it wasn't just Limbaugh saying the defense carried McNabb, it was also the comment about the liberal sports media coddling him because he was black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Originally posted by Iggle in Exile Bang, good post. I would just note that Rush is part of the media. Sometimes he's the manipulator, this time he was the manipulatee. What comes around.... You got that right Iggle. Karma is real. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 You got that right Iggle. Karma is real. Tell me about it Bang; we're still paying for Buddy Ryan being such an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 mcnabb's contribution to the team? as far as i recall eagles offense sucked. their defense kept them in games. u look at eagles offensive numbers this yr. not that great. game vs the panthers? what was thier total score? i dont wanna hear about mcnabb has no WRs. mcnabb has recievers he just thinks rush first instead of pass. thats why he messes up the entire offense because the receivers dont know if he gonna pass or run. kinda like our redskins linebackers lost in space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Skinsfan, your post is a caricature of reality. First, the Eagles had a mediocre defense this year and yet they were 12-4 and won a playoff game. Explain how this is possible please. Second, u look at eagles offensive numbers this yr. not that great. game vs the panthers? what was thier total score? What about the regular season game against the Panthers? What about our blowout against the Skins in the last game? What about the offensive firepower against the Dolphins? Against the Bills? Against the Cowboys? Against the Giants? What about the way McNabb can have a lousy game and still turn it on when it matters most, like he did against the Packers in Green Bay, the Packers in the playoff game, etc.? I'm not saying the guy's Joe Montana Jr., and I'm even willing to admit that he's somewhat overrated. But he doesn't suck. Take the blinders off. Third, i dont wanna hear about mcnabb has no WRs. I haven't made the WR argument, except to say that I can't fault him for saying he needs playmakers. But it is a ying-yang thing; he would almost certainly be better if he had better WRs. Trade Coles and Gardner for Thrash and Pinkston and how good do you think Ramsey would be? Fourth, mcnabb has recievers he just thinks rush first instead of pass. thats why he messes up the entire offense because the receivers dont know if he gonna pass or run Simply untrue. First, his rushing numbers dropped considerably this year. Second, he was the most-sacked QB this year because he held the ball for so long. Hardly a case of him running too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfanforlife Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Mcnabb was the leading rusher for the eagles man. what are u talking about. hahahaha . a team with their qb as the best rusher. mcnabb's numbers are similiar to brad johnson for the past 3 yrs and wht does johnson have? a super bowl ring. dont tell me he has great receivers. johnson plays QB position like it should be. think pass first and run second if u have to. like i said mcnabb is athletic and he can run but keep that scrambling crap in college. dont bring it to nfl . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iggle in Exile Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Mcnabb was the leading rusher for the eagles man. what are u talking about. hahahaha . a team with their qb as the best rusher. Skinsfan, where did you get your stats? Here's what I found: McNabb 71 attempts, 355 yards Staley 96 attempts, 463 yards Westbrook 117 attempts, 613 yards Buckhalter 126 attempts, 542 yards Now, where are your stats? mcnabb's numbers are similiar to brad johnson for the past 3 yrs and wht does johnson have? a super bowl ring. Now you're just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. If NcNabb has similar numbers to Brad Johnson, then he must be pretty good because Johnson has had a pretty good career. Also, IF McNabb has similar numbers to Johnson then maybe the causes of McNabb's inability to win the Super Bowl lie outside of him - the system? the coach? the receivers? dont tell me he has great receivers. johnson plays QB position like it should be. think pass first and run second if u have to More throwing stuff against the wall..... McNabb did think pass first, and that's why he got sacked so much. Have you watched any Eagles games this year? He was holding on to the ball for minutes, practically. Contradicts your 'run first' argument. like i said mcnabb is athletic and he can run but keep that scrambling crap in college. dont bring it to nfl . Again, he's not a scrambling QB. His attempted rushing numbers have gone down every year except this year, which is because he missed 5 games last year, so those numbers were artificially low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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