For everyone who feels that Gibbs has "nothing to prove"

[Morning Wood]

Let me preface this by noting that I am in the same boat as every soul on this board is as far as Gibbs' return is concerned. I too wholeheartedly believe that he can and will turn this team around. I too damn near wept when I watched the press conference announcing his return. This is the proudest I've been to be a Redskin fan in as long as I can remember. Gibbs has been to four Super bowls, and brought home the trophy on three of them. He has built champions and hall of famers. That is one hell of a resume'.

...That being said, I don't necessarily agree that he has nothing to prove to the current players. We've all heard about the grumblings of certain guys. Now, I will agree that some of the things that have fallen out of our beloved pricey players yaps would have been better left to silence, but I do understand the spirit in which the comments were made. This is a team that has endured nothing but turmoil and changeover since ALL of these players have been here. They were teased by playoffs in '99, the Super team in 00', the rough and tough Schott season, and then promised excitement and greatness in two seasons under Spurrier. (I won't even get into D Cord. changes) They have jack **** to show for it all. It has been a vicious circle, one that would cause the most sound of minds to question sanity. They as players can't grasp what we as fans know... Gibbs is to the Redskins what Elvis was to Rock n Roll. And likewise, we as fans can't possibly imagine what it must be like to find yourself standing in quicksand season after season.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but I can definitely understand how some of the guys might be a bit apprehensive about yet another change. I'm sure that they've all gotten the memo about what Gibbs' history with the Redskins involves, and I'm sure they all would like to see history repeat itself. But, if I personally were a player, and hadn't grown up a Skins fan, there would be nothing anyone could tell me to ease my mind at this point.

Many of you here claim that Gibbs has nothing to prove. I disagree. He has been removed from pro football for a right good while, and past championships do not in any way guarantee the same for the future. Likewise, the players have a great deal to prove to Mr. Gibbs. Yeah I know these guys are gettin paid more dough than any of us will ever see, but that doesn't change frustrations. I guess my point with this rant is... ease up folks. Gibbs was the soul of the Redskins, and hopefully will be able to return to form. And on the other side of the fence, we have some great players who I believe really want to be part of something special. ... And they will soon find out what it is like to play for a REAL coach.

Enjoy the ride people, all will soon be right with the universe.

[mcees4life]

The proof is in the pudding.....3 world championships is enough proof to me. And football is football, the basic principles of football remain the same, regardless of how long Gibbs has been out of the game. It's like riding a bicycle......if u haven't rode your old one in 10 years, then u decide to buy a new one with more features and gadgets, u can still ride it because the principles of riding a bicycle remains the same.

[Art]

Gibbs has something to prove.

As measured against history. As measured against his legacy. As measured against our memories. He's got a lot on the line and a lot to prove to any number of people, but most especially against his legacy as a coach.

He has absolutely NOTHING to prove to a bunch of athletes off a 5-11 team. Zero. Nada. The problem with our team is that there's not nearly as much selflessness as there was when Gibbs was last here. There isn't nearly as much surrender of one's own potential to improve the team's potential.

Attitudes as we've seen from any number of our guys is distressing, because, well, simply put, they should have some understanding that in Washington when they are 5-11 and Gibbs won three Super Bowls, the necessary proof of one's abilities isn't necessary from Gibbs.

[SonnyJ]

Just to amplify Art's point, the players ALSO have to realize that they are PART of the reason for the constant change.

THEY probably wouldn't be in this situation if THEY had done THEIR jobs better.

For them to act like they're just innocent victims of the turmoil is extremely disingenuous.

[kleese]

I pretty much agree with the premise of this thread- good thoughts TK421.

Nothing Gibbs does now will erase what he did in his first stint in DC. 3 Super Bowl Titles, 4 NFC Titles, and 5 NFC Title Game appearances in 11 years, all with a fairly rotating roster got him in the Hall of Fame and IMO, ranks him in the Top 5 all-time coach's.

Nothing he does here will "erase" those accomplishments. But we are living in la-la land if we think his leagacy won't be tainted if he falls on his face here.

I have no doubt that Gibbs is every bit as smart as he was 15 years ago. I have no doubt he understands the game as well, and that he knows what it will take to win. I do have a mild concern though that his energy level won't be quite where it was before. I keep telling myself he wouldn't have taken the job unless he felt up to it, but here's my worry:

I said I wouldn't talk about our "losing culture" anymore, but I do still believe that that is a huge mountain to climb. Just listening to Lavar, you can see it is going to take more than just Gibbs' arrival to get these players on a "winning page."

A TON of damage has been done over the past decade or so. A ton. This is a 5-11 football team we're talking about after all.

But Parcells took a 5-11 team and turned them into a strong 10-6 playoff team with a bright future. Gibbs could do the same, but we must NOT underestimate what situation he is entering.

The team has some talent. It has a high draft pick. The young QB is in place with 2 years under his belt.

But some of these players are jaded, angry, and have no clue how to win. They are distrustful of their empolyer and IMO, ready to accept defeat at the first sign of trouble. I believe the work ethic and preparation has suffered along the way.

You can't just wave a magic wand and make all of that go away. It's going to take some hard work. Hard work in the film room. Hard work in the draft room. Hard work on the practice field. And hard work turning around the psychi's of the players on this team. I'm still in favor of getting rid of any players who may be "lingering" with those attitudes from the past-- regardless of their stature with the team.

I belive in Joe Gibbs. I believe he understands these things 100 times better than I do. I have faith that he knows how to push all the right buttons. But I'd by lying if I said I thought it was a done-deal. I still have some doubts, simply because I have lost complete faith in the Redskins as an organization.

Nothing could make me happier than getting Gibbs. Nothing. I am estatic he is back.

Because if he can't do it, I really wonder if anyone can.

So, yes, I think his age, coupled with his decade absence, coupled with the Redskins situation, does make this a "prove yourself" situation for Joe Gibbs.

Joe Gibbs will never be removed from Canton. He will be there and deservedly so forever, but he will taint his legacy some if he fails to get the Redskins back to a winning tradition.

But if he succeeds (and I truly believe he will), then Gibbs just may jump from "one of the best coach's in history" to the top of the list. Seriously.

[MidPennSkin]

Gibbs has to prove to the team that he can still produce a winner.

The players have to prove that they can fit on his team, doing the kind of things he wants them to do. Except for a few players like Arrington, who are uncutable and untradeable due to his new megamegacontract. I'm hoping that Gibbs & Williams can persuade him to play the game their way.

[NavyDave]

Its the players have something to prove.

The one remaining constant are the players and unlike Oakland the selfish players will be the ones ran out of town by fan and media backlash.

And its only been what 12 years since he left. What does he have to learn besides that there are alot of Leons in the NFL since 92

[Morning Wood]

I agree that the players must take on their share of the responsibility of what events have lead them to where they are. A great deal of the problem has been them not playing up to par, but some of it is also due to playcalling, game planning, lacidasical coaching, etc. It goes both ways.

I'm not trying to Gibbs bash. Far from it in fact. Just tryin to be understanding of the whole situation from both sides.

[Cskin]

It's the players that have something to prove. Things such as..

*Remembering their assignments and executing them as coached

*Football fundamentals, running, blocking, tackling.

*That they understand it's a team game, and that their is no "I" in team. An example: There is no I in Lavar either. STFU!!!!!

[BCS:BraveCaringSoul]

Another great post Kleese. :notworthy

The losing culture which has infested the Redskins for years IS THE PROBLEM. It will not go away simply because we've hired the best coach in the history of the game.

I said I wouldn't talk about our "losing culture" anymore, but I do still believe that that is a huge mountain to climb. Just listening to Lavar, you can see it is going to take more than just Gibbs' arrival to get these players on a "winning page."

A TON of damage has been done over the past decade or so. A ton. This is a 5-11 football team we're talking about after all.

But Parcells took a 5-11 team and turned them into a strong 10-6 playoff team with a bright future. Gibbs could do the same, but we must NOT underestimate what situation he is entering.

Joe Gibbs has undertaken a challenge far more difficult than any he has attempted before. If he fails there will be no other.

Though his coaching staff is a fine fellowship, Gibbs and Gibbs alone is the ring bearer. The path ahead is a perilous one filled with danger at every turn. If he can not bear the burden and somehow navigate his way to the fires of Mordor-- then surely no one else will.

"We choose to go to the moon and do the other things, NOT because they are easy, but because they are hard."

John F.Kennedy

[SonnyJ]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a player thinking "show me" about Gibbs and the new coaching staff. Yesterday's success will buy you nothing tomorrow.

The players NEED to also make it clear that THEY need to impress the new coaching staff, as well. Players like Lavar don't have a huge resume to hang their hats on - they also need to demonstrate that they are willing to match Gibbs' demonstrated committment to winning.

The only guys I get that sense from are Ramsey and Coles (maybe Thomas, too).

[Morning Wood]

I seemed to have touched a nerve up in this mutha. Good, I much prefer a heavy debate.

Yes, it is disheartening to hear the comments made by several players. Unfortunately, we'll probably have to endure a great deal more of that until this ship turns around, or at least until training camp progresses, and the "malcontents" either figure out what the possibilities are and get onboard, or they walk the plank so to speak.

I think the ones who "get onboard" will work that much harder. The latter will weed themselves from the group, and well... we didn't need em anyway.

[Heavy Jumbo]

Gibbs came into this knowing that there was alot to get done, including showing the players that he is a REAL coach. It doesn't matter what he's done in the past, the future is where we will win games.

In his opening press conference, he stated that he wasn't wearing any of his SB Rings because this is a new beginning. I think this will carry over with meeting the players too. Once they see that he has a genuine will to win, hopefully that will carry over to the their attitude's.

I'm expecting the first few games next season to be something like what happened with Marty. Close to halfway through the season is where we'll probably see most of the players starting to grasp Gibbs' system.

[bubba9497]

Well I am pretty sure no one on the other teams we play next season will think that they will lose now that Gibbs is back on the Redskins sidelines.

[Vegas-Born]

I agree he has nothing to prove to anybody but himself...but prepare to duck. If things take longer than a game to turn around...the shots will be fired.

In sports--even heroes are measured by the here and now...not the then...

[freakofthesouth]

Gibbs is an extremely, extremely hard worker. That's what his strong point is, and that's why he's been as successful as he has been.

As fasr as the players go, let them think what they want this offseason.

Because the SECOND that they get back into that uniform, participate in mini-camp and the like, they will see an incredibly conhesive coaching unit that identifies w/ the players and unites the team as a whole.

So, let them work out the frustrations and the pain of the past few seasons. But when it's time to work, that's all they'll be doing. Or they won't be around very long.

[Dan T.]

Gibbs himself said at his introductory press conference that his past doesn't mean squat regarding the task at hand. Part of that was him being his usual humble self, but he realizes that once the ball is snapped, no one in the national media, the NFL, and maybe even among the fans will cut him any slack because of what he did 10-15 years ago.

One of the very reasons he came back was that he himself feels that he has something to prove - that he can still successfully coach in the NFL.

I think he's up to the task.

[Om]

There is nothing anyone has said here that isn't on Joe Gibbs' mind his every waking hour.

All you need do is go back and listen to or read again his comments at his initial press conference. What you’ll see is that the concerns voiced on this thread are precisely the reasons he HAS come back. The man quite simply lives for challenges ... he lives to test himself ... and he openly states that he knows the only way to approach it is to outwork the other guy.

I’ve posted before that I am not putting the burden of expectations on the man in terms of number of wins or “how long it takes” for him to infuse professionalism back into this franchise. No one can predict that at this point, there are simply too many variables. But I am quite comfortable defending the proposition that there is simply no one man that the Washington Redskins could have hired who is better suited to the task. Not one.

You can have your Belichick’s and your Parcells’ ... great coaches, to be sure, but “better?” Not in my eyes.

And you’d find no argument from me if you suggested we still might need to bring in another front office guy in the next year or two (just between you and me, this is something I half expect Gibbs to push for next offseason) ... but in the meanwhile, if Joe Gibbs is comfortable with the present arrangement, I’m really not arrogant enough – despite appearances – to seriously question the man’s judgement. Why? Because in my eyes he is the single best candidate the franchise could have lucked into to stop the bleeding, and begin the process of once again making it a competently run, professional concern.

Seems to me that’s all any reasonable fan of this team should be asking at this point. And I submit that it’s also something that no team can realistically expect to win big without. The Redskins have not been a professionally run organization for years, and who is “to blame” is not really the point. What is, is that the team has been floundering badly and needs to find its legs again.

So I’m not thinking in terms of winning the Super Bowl in the next couple of years; I’m thinking in terms of rebuilding a foundation of professionalism that will allow this franchise to even realistically think about competing for championships again, when the vagaries of talent and scheduling and luck and all the myriad other variables that play into deciding who hoists the trophy at the end of the year all fall into place.

At this point, I’m smiling quietly to myself a lot, believing in my heart that we’ve been fortunate enough to re-hire a man who has made climbing mountains his reason for living, has already successfully scaled those heights like few others ever have done, and, for reasons known only to himself, has committed to throwing himself utterly back into the fray on our behalf.

Think he doesn’t know what he’s up against? He does.

I don’t think he’s failing to plan ... or planning to fail.

[OURYEAR#56]

"The past doesn't buy you nothing but relationships" Socrates couldn't have said it any better. Gibbs knows what is at hand. I feel that he knows he has a lot to prove not only to this team but to the league. Gibbs is unlike Vermiel and Parcells if you ask me. Vermiel came back becuase he never won a chip, and Parcells comes back to try and change teams around. Gibbs is coming back to the place where he won three rings. There is going to be a lot of pressure on him to repeat that feet. Look at the post on this thread. All of you believe in Gibbs so much that I swear some of you think he walked on water. Stop it, he's a football coach and he has to work twice as hard to fulfill our wildest dreams of another Lombardi Trophy. Let the man do his thing. The players and us should not expect nothing more than the man working twice as hard to make us a champion again. If he does that the only people that should have a problem with him are the slackers.