sonsofwashington Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 After having watched two years of mal-strtegized offensive and defensive plays I am ready to see what our friend Mr. Gibbs has up his sleve. I must say that I think the guy is a football genius for his play calling. Watching Spurrier and his flapping slow motion fishlips flutter in his utter ignorance and lack of coordination made me realize that SS could not call a decent game for four quarters. Every game he seemed to come up with some long shot play that would miraculously swing us back into the game for a surprising victory. The only surprise, and it soon became no surprise, is that we would lose these games. Anyways since I am too young to remember the types of plays that Gibbs called back in the day I wonder this: Our team is built around Spurriers desires and offensive strategies. How does Gibbs strategies work well with the roster that we have and how exactly could we make improvements to accomodate Gibbs' game plan? I started pondering this because wanted to know how our running back situation was portrayed by Gibbs. Does he like the fact that we have about 4 running backs that are not great but can get the job done as a unit if the opportunity is given to them. Anyways, I will be excited to see an offense that retreats to good ole fashinoed NFL football. The fun and gun is just a big headache. Good ridence. So how does our roster gel with Gibbs game plan. I guess Gibbs will have to adjust, but I am considering the Gibbs style of football with our current roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxskins Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I'll give you two things to expect. Hidden Blitzes - defense Counter-tre - offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Fakeman Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 dont forget LaVar.... I got $ on 14 sacks this year.....perhaps 2 ints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsofwashington Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 I love the counter-tre........That play became famous to me after the SB in 1987. Counter-Gap I think they called it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Ahhhh. Gibbs offense. Counter tre? Oh yeah, and lots of it. But he also liked to go three wide; that may be his biggest reason for running the single back *and* the counter tre. No fullback means one more wide reciever (or TE) and means the lead blocker must be a lineman. Gibbs was very creative in his formations, sometimes lining up three WRs, one behind the other to one side of the field. He likes to run but he also likes to go deep. Waaaaaay deep. The threat of the two extremes keeps defenses honest. It will be interesting to see how he adapts to todays NFL. I expect the basis of his offense will not change much, I don't think there will be much need to. But I'm sure he will refine it to cope with the new defensive schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Even Madder Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Counter-trey, counter-gap, and 50 gut. Hog heaven! On the other hand, Gibbs was always a passing guy first. He was just smart enough to realize that when you have Riggins, you run. He once had three 1,000 yard receivers in the same season. He'll know just what to do with Coles. He turned Jay Schoeder into a 4,000 yard passer. He won Superbowls with Doug Williams and Mark Rypien, both just average QBs. In 1991 they gave up under 10 sacks for the season -- he'll protect Ramsey and turn him into a star. You can bet on this: whatever his opponents plan for, he'll do something different. If they get ready for smash-mouth, 50 gut, heavy jumbo football, he'll throw for 400 yards. If they plan for Air Coryell, he'll grind it out on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 SONSOF WASHINGTON. Much of the Gibbs offense is a one back formations. The tight ends play a important role in blocking. Sometimes he will sneak out a tight end for a pass but not much. One thing that you will notice is how much line shifting Gibbs does, He can run the same play over and over because the line will shift 3 or 4 times before the ball is snapped. There is also a WR in motion a lot of the time. He used to do this with Riggins all the time. Everybody knew the Riggins was going to get the ball but with the line shifting so much, nobody knew which formation they would run it from. This would open up the passing game also. With recievers in motion and the line shifting Gibbs would get favorable macthups to throw the deep ball. The QB's in Gibbs system have to have a quick release also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by sonsofwashington Anyways since I am too young to remember the types of plays that Gibbs called back in the day I wonder this: Our team is built around Spurriers desires and offensive strategies. How does Gibbs strategies work well with the roster that we have and how exactly could we make improvements to accomodate Gibbs' game plan As a young guy you don't know it yet, but you're about to see a thing of beauty. See the part of your message I highlighted in green I did for a reason, because you have that exactly backwards. Gibbs will eventually tailor the team to his ideal of what he thinks it should do, but in terms of the roster we currently have and what he does with it... what he will do is adapt to his players, rather than force them to adapt to him. Gibbs' ability to adjust is unlike any coach I've ever seen. He will take a look at this team, and devise the best way to utilize it, whether it fits his eventual ideal or not. That said, here's what he will do, guaranteed. he will use his strong armed QB quite a bit in conjunction with our speedburner wideout. He will use guys like Samuels, Jansen, Thomas and Dockery, and he will make sure they keep said big strong armed QB upright and comfortable. He will have them salivating at the chance to run block and maul people.If he must go with the backs we have now, he'll try to pound with Betts, I'd bet, and he will incorporate dash plays and rollouts to take advantage of the speed of Morton and Canidate in short pass plays. (remember that, old guys? Theismann or Schroeder dash out to the right, halfback trailing him 5 yards across the line, on a dead run, QB had the option of hitting him with a high percentage pass already with the man in full gallop, or throwing across the grain deep. Either way, both receivrs lined up in his field of sight, and he could choose which one to throw to without tipping off anyone with his eyes.) Frankly, Morton has "Joe Washington" written all over him, I think. But before you see him do any of that, the team will be put into the weight room. Gibbs teams are some of the most physically fit and strongest teams out there. Their conditioning programs were a big part of their success. This is why he has lost i believe only FIVE games in December. His teams are tough, physically dominant. You'll see discipline. Aggressiveness with purpose. No stupid post play finger pointing penalties. And if you do see that, you'll see players cut the next day. Anyone remember Brian Davis? Our first pick of the 87 draft (2nd rounder) He was a defensive back. He wasn't all that good, but he got his chances, picked off 5 pases in about 40 or so games. I believe it was a game against San Francisco in 1990, the redskins lost, and he gave up a TD late in the game that gave the Niners the lead or got them really close.. can't recall exactly which, but Davis then shoved the receiver in the end zone from behind, costing us a 15 yard penalty on the kickoff. Insult on top of injury. He got beat, but he lost his cool, which was unforgiveable. The next day he was gone. He wasn't threatened or hollered at like Parcells would do. He was just simply fired. As I think on it, he was either flat out released, but I have this thing in the back of my head that says he was placed on the equivalent of today's Physically Unable list for some sudden mysterious ailment. Either way, he never dressed for another game in the burgundy and gold. That's what you'll see. You'll see him adjust his game to the players, and you'll see him immediately adjust his players approach to the game. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Well said Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Being one of the younger guys, could one of you mature gentlemen please explain to me what the counter-trey is? Thank ya' kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Offense: PLAY ACTION. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Golgo, that is a play where the line and the RB act as if the running play is going one way, then a OL or two pull to the other side and the RB goes and follows them. It became huge in the late 80s and 90s and is now pretty standard on several teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Does anyone think Rod Gardner can be salvaged now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinker Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Counter-trey is where the one back steps one direction at the snap and the the guard or sometimes tackle from that side pulls to lead the play in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by SlinginSammy Does anyone think Rod Gardner can be salvaged now? :hump: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Originally posted by Bang As a young guy you don't know it yet, but you're about to see a thing of beauty. Gibbs' ability to adjust is unlike any coach I've ever seen. I agree with this the entirely. For those who haven't had the opportunity to see Gibbs coach I think you'll be just dumbfounded as to the effectivness of his teams compared to the crap we've been subjected to for the last decade. The best game day coach ever. Without question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 without going into the X's and O's it's a counter play, which means at the snap the running back immediately fakes as if the play is going one way, and then suddenly shifts back the other way with the handoff. The opposite side of the line pulls and they overload the point of attack with gigantic mounds of just really nasty behaviour. The DE and LB on that side are easily trampled into dust, leaving a very frightened CB or safety look at a 340 pound offensive lineman bearing down on him at full speed with a RB breaking into the clear behind him. And if that RB happens to weigh 240 pounds, that guy is in a world of trouble. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clubisyohankovic Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 counter-trey: Hopefully i get this right.... It's an inside power running play. let's say it's going left. The running back would take one step to the right as the ball is snapped, then moves left to take the handoff. as the ball is snapped, the right side of the line (usually a combination of RG, RT, or TE) will pull to the left behind the left side of the line. These guys become the lead blockers - when it works well, you've got a 300+ pound tackle running through the hole with a full head of steam and crushing a linebacker or safety. Good fun. (edit) guess i'm too slow. no wonder i'm not an nfl coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 See if this helps. Goggled it & found a modified version of it. http://www.pmfb.net/handbook/offplays/countertrey.shtml Here is a running play that I have been able to use with moderate success that was designed after the original Washington Redskins Counter Trey of the eighties. Hopefully it will invoke memories of the huge 300+ lb. offensive lineman like Russ Grimm and Joe Jacoby (affectionately known as "The Hogs") pulling to lead great powerful and agile backs such as John Riggins and George Rogers. Both running backs in the I formation start left to try and get linebacker motion in that direction. The left TE sweep blocks right to try and pick up onrushers coming through the area left vacant by the pulling left tackle and guard. The fullback (optimal 100 STR) is also there to pick up these onrushers as well. The pulling offensive lineman need to be at least 75 SPD in order to get to the point of attack on the other side of the offensive line. The center, RG, and RT are trying to block their respective men down to the left away from the point of attack. The quarterback pump fakes to try and freeze the defense, and once again try and give the OL and HB (high speed and strength are nice qualities) a chance to reach the point of attack first. The pulling offensive lineman hopefully block linebackers trying to get to the HB. The play can go either inside the right tackle and the pulling linemen's blocks, or outside the right tackle and the pulling linemen's blocks, depending on the angles of the pursuit of the defense and the HB's ability to read his blocks. The right side tight end and wide receiver are simply trying to pick up defenders on that side of the field. The play works well on defenses that read quickly with motion initially starting in the opposite direction, and also works fairly well on defenses that delay their read as that gives a chance for the two pulling lineman to lead the HB. The play's shortcomings are against defenses that penetrate up the field over or near the right tackle (penetration too wide still allows the play to go to the inside), defenses that can get to the quarterback on his pump fake before he hands the ball off, or against a smart, strong left-side defensive lineman coming hard on a pass rush towards the quarterback who ploughs into your halfback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dstephens Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Coach Gibbs said he got the play from Nebraska in the 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 TK421 thats it. In Gibbs book he wrote it was a varation of Student body right that used misdirection to make the defenders move the wrong way. It is defended with disciplined Line and lLnebackers that follow the pulling guards and tackle to clog the ball carriers route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The play pulls more than one lineman? The way some of you describe the play, it is really common. Even spurrier would run canidate on a counter up the middle pulling his guard to the opposite side of the formation to open up a hole. That being said I don't remember him pulling more than one lineman. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 The counter-tre was used a lot less in Gibbs' later years because teams (especially the Giants) stopped it by chasing the RB from behind with the weakside linebacker. Because both the Guard and the Tackle from one side of the line pulled, the H-back or tight end, who had been in motion in the opposite direction of the play, had to seal off the defensive end. But that left the linebacker free. The real staple of Gibbs running game was the 40 or 50 Gut, which (if I remember correctly) was a simple play with the back running between the guard and tackle on either side of the line. It was a simple play with simple blocking, but it was so effective because they would run it out of so many different formations that the defense could never figure out when it was coming. Sometimes, they would even run it when O-linemen were in a two-point blocking stance. Gibbs explained, when he was hired the first time around, that his offensive philosophy centered around running just a few plays out of multiple formations because he believed that defense was based on recognition. These days, those kind of read-and-react defenses are less common, but even attacking defenses must read keys. Gibbs is a master at making the defense think one play is coming and then running another, attacking a weakness. Gibbs never really had a defensive "philosophy," so to speak. He left most of that to Richie Petitbon and his staff. Gibbs would have input in the defensive game plan, however, because he could break down an opponent's offense and he and 'Bone would bounce ideas off each other. I expect a similar relationship with Gregg Williams. Williams has coached under Buddy Ryan and Jeff Fisher, so his defense is based somewhat on Ryan's 46 defense used with the Bears and Eagles in the '80s. While it's derived from the 46, its not the defense that Ryan ran. It's an aggressive, attacking defense that utilizes a safety at or near the line of scrimmage as part of its base set. Williams is known for adapting his defense. He incorporated zone blitzes into his defense in Buffalo, which is something that wasn't used much in Tennessee. In a way, Williams is a great fit with Gibbs, because he gives the opposing offense multiple looks hoping to confuse quarterbacks and blockers. Should be fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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