2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Being from the Tristate area of Pizza greatness also makes me hate Chicago and that casserole bull**** they call pizza.

 

Been a long time since I've been to Chicago.  I wanted to go last year to that game but it didn't link well scheduling wise for me so went to Indy instead.  Back when I lived in DC for a bit, long ago, they had really bad pizza.   I go to DC usually at least once a year and I'll say their food in general but pizza specifically is light years better than it was when I lived there. 

 

Back in my day in DC, Chicago pizza was more oddly prevalent than NY pizza.  Pizzeria Uno in Union Station back then was considered high end pizza. 

 

Yeah I am a NY style pizza >>> Chicago pizza person too 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

 

 

Wonder if he's related to the Boyz II Men singer?  Just named after him?

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

27 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

There goes my theory that Dawand was one of the two OLs we didn't like because he was too big and slow.

[Est.1974]

Maybe in this era where veteran QBs are getting 40mil per year, outside of say 6-8 teams the rest should be prepared to take that chance on Anthony Richardson. Elite traits right there on display. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

Maybe in this era where veteran QBs are getting 40mil per year, outside of say 6-8 teams the rest should be prepared to take that chance on Anthony Richardson. Elite traits right there on display. 

 

Yup. I think people have been way too harsh on Richardson and the blue print for guys with lacking accuracy has been set and has worked.

 

I still think he needs to go somewhere that they will fully support him immediately and he'll be on the field. But if that happens he's going to be special. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm kind of excited to see the Bears drafting this year. I want it to suck because my last two ex girlfriends are from Chicago, so **** that place, but they can potentially trade down twice and still have a top ten pick this year. That's bonkers. It's the kind of draft that makes them a legit contender for the next decade if they play it right. 

 

They could go from 1 to 2 and add pick 33 and a 2024 1st.

 

They could go from 2 to 4 and add 35 and a 2024 1st.

 

They could get the guy they were planning to take at #1 and add 33 and 35 (at a minimum) and go into 2024 with three #1s

 

Some simulators have dumb trade proposals. But I think PFN is pretty fair. I played with the Bears and was offered 2, 12, 33 and a 2024 1st from Houston for #1. In reality, they won't get that for one jump. But they could get half of that and it would be a "steal" for them. And then they could do it again.

Edited March 6, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Koolblue13]

31 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

They could go from 1 to 2 and add pick 33 and a 2024 1st.

 

They could go from 2 to 4 and add 35 and a 2024 1st.

 

They could get the guy they were planning to take at #1 and add 33 and 35 (at a minimum) and go into 2024 with three #1s

 

Some simulators have dumb trade proposals. But I think PFN is pretty fair. I played with the Bears and was offered 2, 12, 33 and a 2024 1st from Houston for #1. In reality, they won't get that for one jump. But they could get half of that and it would be a "steal" for them. And then they could do it again.

Most of the mock sims are totally trash IMO. The fan speak one is kind of the most realistic. I'm sure you say the thread I started just for them.  I enjoy your posts around this time of year

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Most of the mock sims are totally trash IMO. The fan speak one is kind of the most realistic. I'm sure you say the thread I started just for them.  I enjoy your posts around this time of year

Everyone who does these draft sims winds up with 45 draft picks.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Everyone who does these draft sims winds up with 45 draft picks.  

 

I refuse to do that one simulator that gives you a gazillion picks. I honestly pick the simulators that have the most realistic trade offers v. draft board even. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Just now, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I refuse to do that one simulator that gives you a gazillion picks. I honestly pick the simulators that have the most realistic trade offers v. draft board even. 

 

For the same reason I turn down the trade offers on the PFN mock simulator.  Heck if I accepted them all, I'd build a SB roster in one fell swoop, I'd have 20 picks in the first 5 rounds.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

wow.  O line, O line, O line is all the beat guys are saying they are obsessed with, maybe taking 3 at a minimum is slam dunk

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I almost never post a long part of an article on this thread but this one was too good to take too much out.

 

 

INDIANAPOLIS — The Washington Commanders spent a significant chunk of their one-on-one time at the NFL scouting combine talking to offensive linemen. The team used at least 19 of its 45 formal interviews on prospects across tackle, guard and center, including Northwestern tackle Peter Skoronski and Ohio State tackle Paris Johnson Jr., who are both projected to be top-15 picks.

 

 

Though formal interviews are not perfect gauges of interest — a team can like a prospect but not “formal” him — they do offer insight into what a team prioritizes with one of its most valuable combine assets.

Overall, Washington seemed to prioritize size, versatility and experience. Thirteen of its 19 O-line interviews were seniors, and the team spoke to many prospects who started at multiple positions in college and several who weighed near the top of their position groups, including Ohio State tackle Dawand Jones (6-foot-8, 374 pounds) and Florida guard O’Cyrus Torrence (6-5, 330).

 

This spring, Washington is expected to pick a lineman in the early rounds of the NFL draft as its front office tries to rebuild a line that was one of the league’s worst in 2022. The unit seems to only have two starters solidified: left tackle Charles Leno Jr. and guard/tackle Sam Cosmi, whose spot will be dictated by the team’s offseason acquisitions. In interviews, Coach Ron Rivera has said he’d like to get younger at center and wouldn’t be concerned about pairing quarterback Sam Howell with a rookie.

“In my three years here, we haven't had a season where [our interior line] has played the majority of our starters in the majority of the games,” Rivera added. “[Improvement is] about staying healthy.”

 

Washington’s prioritization of size makes sense. In Kansas City, offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy almost always had tall tackles and guards — only one regular contributor was shorter than 6-foot-5 — and most of them weighed between 304 and 321 pounds. The only true physical outlier was left tackle Orlando Brown Jr., who was 6-foot-8 and weighed 340 pounds.

 

At center, the Chiefs had a type. Either Austin Reiter (6-3, 300) or Creed Humphrey (6-4, 302) made nearly every snap of Bieniemy’s tenure. Washington interviewed several centers with nearly identical measurements, including Minnesota’s John Michael Schmitz (6-3, 301), Oregon’s Alex Forsyth (6-4, 303), Troy’s Jake Andrews (6-3, 305), Arkansas’s Ricky Stromberg (6-3, 306) and Michigan’s Olu Oluwatimi (6-2, 309).

Though Washington didn’t interview Ohio State’s Luke Wypler (6-3, 303), he would fit the mold. The team also had formal interviews with bigger center prospects who are considered among the best in the class: Wisconsin’s Joe Tippmann (6-6, 313) and TCU’s Steve Avila (6-3, 332), who could also move to guard.

 

 

...Washington has one advantage in evaluating linemen this year. Assistant offensive line coach Travelle Wharton worked with prospects for a week last month at the Senior Bowl. He coached several linemen the Commanders interviewed in Indianapolis (Andrews, Oluwatimi, Dawand Jones, North Dakota State’s Cody Mauch) and against several others (Torrence, Schmitz, Avila, Alabama’s Tyler Steen, Syracuse’s Matthew Bergeron, Tennessee’s Darnell Wright and Oklahoma’s Wanya Morris).

Wharton said the firsthand experience with players would “help a lot” when it comes to building the draft board and ultimately making picks.

 

“Sometimes, you only see them on the film and at the combine doing drills,” Wharton added last month at the Senior Bowl. “I get to see them [up close], how they play football, how they react, how they took something from the classroom and they work that technique on the field. It gives me a chance [to say], ‘I like the guy. He did this. He did that.’”

 

In the combine interview room, several players said Commanders offensive line coach John Matsko began their meetings by asking them for a physical demonstration. He wanted them to break the huddle, walk up to an imaginary line of scrimmage, get into a stance and narrate their pre-snap evaluation of an opposing defense.

“It was very old-school,” Stromberg, the Arkansas center, said. “I enjoyed it.”

Andrews, who played at Troy, didn’t think much of the assignment because the Trojans used a pro-style offense his last year and huddled often. Forsyth, from Oregon, felt as if he were being tested because the Ducks ran an up-tempo scheme and rarely huddled.

 

“He’d show a play on the board, and I’d have to go through my process,” Forsyth said.

 

Forsyth remembered explaining that before a pass play, he reads the linebackers first and then the defensive line. If he can, he looks at the safety rotation, but if the offense is using tempo, “it’s a little bit harder to do that.” Forsyth said he dove into the finer details of schemes, combo blocks and pre-snap movement that would lead him to flip a protection call.

 

“[Matsko] was asking me a bunch of questions, showing me some different coaching points as well,” Andrews added. “There were just a few little plays where we talked about positional leverage, hat placement here and there.”

“It was so interesting,” Morris, the Oklahoma right tackle, said of the Commanders’ process. “I enjoyed the experience.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/03/06/commanders-nfl-draft-offensive-linemen/

Edited March 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Zim489]

Were going to draft a guard round one...

 

I feel in my bones. One last boomer moment from Ron and Co

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

wow.  O line, O line, O line is all the beat guys are saying they are obsessed with, maybe taking 3 at a minimum is slam dunk

Its never about building for the future for us. Its always about fixing the previous years problems. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

Its never about building for the future for us. Its always about fixing the previous years problems. 

 

I am with you as for build for the future.  I still think is beyond wacky and sad that if I recall right the only GM we had to trade picks during a current draft for the next draft was McCloughan, he picked up 3 future picks that way.  He got no fanfare for doing it but its stuck with me.   Unless am forgetting some other time?  I hate that.  And EVERY regime we've had is guilty about that.

 

But i am 100% on board with all hands on deck about the O line.  It always stuck with me reading two different scouts say years ago its hard to be a good team with a crap o line.

 

Yeah obviously QB comes first.  But the O line is big.  When the Giants had their SB run years ago, they not only had a good D line but also an O line -- their years of suck has coincided with their O line sucking.

 

So yeah I am not crying with them going O line early.  You seem focused on them taking a guard, i am gathering as a shot.  But most indications are if its in the first it would be a tackle.  And nope a tackle in the first isn't a bad thing.

 

Rivera i doubt is here in 2024.  And no i wouldn't hate him and Masko giving the next regime a young-good O line.

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I feel in my bones. One last boomer moment from Ron and Co

 

You've got to stop with this boomer **** man.  It's just ageist trollish ****posting.  This is a good thread.

[Zim489]

I think some resources should be diverted to it. But spending top ones on anything but a LT is another punch in the card of them not understanding value in their assets. Your most valuable assets should be going towards the most impactful positions. Taking a Guard in the first couldnt be more anti modern football move. Just tired of this mindset from this franchise. Ron and the legion of boomers repeating the Scherff mistake for one last hurray frustrates me to all hell.

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

You've got to stop with this boomer **** man.  It's just ageist trollish ****posting.  This is a good thread.

Its a major portion of player selection. You cant ignore it. Its not trolling. Theres plenty of analytical and industry talk about how old fashion this franchise does things. Be angry about if you want but its a fact of the matter right now. 

[Est.1974]

So, not 100% sure, but does anyone think we’ll draft a center ? 

[PlayAction]

Scherff was a #5 pick of the first round.  That's not the same as picking one at #16.  Personally, I would prefer a tackle to start at RT and possibly move to LT in the future.  Depends on what Bienemey thinks of Cosmi.  But I want the best OL possible to support a young QB

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I think some resources should be diverted to it. But spending top ones on anything but a LT is another punch in the card of them not understanding value in their assets. Your most valuable assets should be going towards the most impactful positions. Taking a Guard in the first couldnt be more anti modern football move. Just tired of this mindset from this franchise. Ron and the legion of boomers repeating the Scherff mistake for one last hurray frustrates me to all hell.

 

RT these days isn't a mile behind LT, so many pass rushers are coming at the QB from that side.  Within our division the Eagles-Cowbiys best pass rushes often come at the RT.

 

But yeah everything being equal, I'd like a tackle who can play or transition to either spot.  Sort of like what the Eagles did when they drafted L. Johnson.  Anton Harrison fits that theme.

 

Sharp who is the ultimate anayltics guy, crunched the numbers and picked OT for this team.  PFF usually also focuses on OT for this team.

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/2023-nfl-mock-draft-ryan-mccrystal/

16. Washington Commanders, Top Draft Pick Prediction: Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee

Previous 1.0 Mock Draft selection: Peter Skoronski, OL

Best Draft Targets for the Commanders with the 16th pick:

• Offensive Line: The offensive line was a mess last year, making it an obvious area to target with this selection. Although most of last year’s unit remains under contract, expect Washington to add a rookie at some point and shuffle guys around in training camp. This selection is likely the floor for the top tier of offensive line prospects. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

But spending top ones on anything but a LT is another punch in the card of them not understanding value in their assets. Your most valuable assets should be going towards the most impactful positions.

 

Like a blocking tight end?  You're right.  We should spend our first round pick on that and ship off Daron Payne, because no DT ever dominated the NFL or was the best player on a superbowl team.

[Est.1974]

We need a couple of OL free agents and 3 draft picks probably.........if Roullier is done your not keeping more than 5 from this sorry bunch :

	Tyler Larsen69	C	31	6' 4"	335 lbs	7	Utah State
	Nick Martin60	C	29	6' 4"	299 lbs	7	Notre Dame
	Chase Roullier73	C	29	6' 4"	312 lbs	6	Wyoming
	Nolan Laufenberg74	G	23	6' 3"	312 lbs	1	Air Force
	Wes Martin63	G	26	6' 3"	315 lbs	4	Indiana
	Andrew Norwell68	G	31	6' 6"	310 lbs	9	Ohio State
	Chris Paul75	G	24	6' 4"	324 lbs	R	Tulsa
	Wes Schweitzer71	G	29	6' 4"	300 lbs	7	San Jose State
	Keaton Sutherland61	G	26	6' 5"	316 lbs	3	Texas A&M
	Trai Turner53	G	29	6' 3"	320 lbs	9	LSU
	Alex Akingbulu62	OT	25	6' 5"	300 lbs	1	Fresno State
	Saahdiq Charles77	OT	23	6' 4"	322 lbs	3	LSU
	Sam Cosmi76	OT	24	6' 6"	309 lbs	2	Texas
	Charles Leno Jr.72	OT	31	6' 3"	302 lbs	9	Boise State
	Cornelius Lucas78	OT	31	6' 8"	327 lbs	8	Kansas State
	Aaron Monteiro67	OT	25	6' 7"	320 lbs	1	Boston College

[Going Commando]

7 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Its a major portion of player selection. You cant ignore it. Its not trolling. Theres plenty of analytical and industry talk about how old fashion this franchise does things. Be angry about if you want but its a fact of the matter right now. 

 

Yeah, it's trolling.  You may think it's a clever put down, but it just makes you look callow and like you don't really know anything.

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

RT these days isn't a mile behind LT, so many pass rushers are coming at the QB from that side.  Within our division the Eagles-Cowbiys best pass rushes often come at the RT.

 

But yeah everything being equal, I'd like a tackle who can play or transition to either spot.  Sort of like what the Eagles did when they drafted L. Johnson.  Anton Harrison fits that theme.

 

Sharp who is the ultimate anayltics guy, crunched the numbers and picked OT for this team.  PFF usually also focuses on OT for this team.

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/2023-nfl-mock-draft-ryan-mccrystal/

16. Washington Commanders, Top Draft Pick Prediction: Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee

Previous 1.0 Mock Draft selection: Peter Skoronski, OL

Best Draft Targets for the Commanders with the 16th pick:

• Offensive Line: The offensive line was a mess last year, making it an obvious area to target with this selection. Although most of last year’s unit remains under contract, expect Washington to add a rookie at some point and shuffle guys around in training camp. This selection is likely the floor for the top tier of offensive line prospects. 

Yeah im not as down on a RT if they are a bonified RT. But I am not a fan of their approach in valuing the "position flex" to attacking that position. If your guy is going to be a bonifed RT sure take him. I would rather have one of the great CBs that everyone seems to love in various orders but I can understand it. If they attack the position in the way they thought of AVT of "we think he can be a tackle but if cant we have a really good guard." To me thats placing value in the pick selection over the position itself. Which IMO is the wrong way to team building. 

 

To me, theres no world where a guard is ever worth a first rounder. If they are thinking its good value because the pick can play guard they are IMO thinking in completely out of touch manner of roster building in the 2020s.

 

To me theres only 5 positions you take in the first in most situations. QB WR CB LT Pass Rushers. Pass game play makers, offense and defense, carry you to victory. Draft playmakers in those positions. Once you get late first then those lines blur. 

[Est.1974]

Got to agree that a OG at #16 can’t be right. I’ve said the same earlier re TE. If they are the preferred positions, as an example, we better trade back in the first for additional picks.