Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I guess since we won, the usual scapegoats aren't being thrashed. You know who they are, Champ, Spurrier, Edwards. I really didn't have much else to say. Just thought it was pretty funny that for the last few weeks Champ has been overanalyzed yet no one is talking about his play today. If anything, be consistent. He played well today, as he has when others said he didn't, so give the man his due for once instead of always tearing him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Preach on brother gamebreaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Bailey was decent today. He was in on 3 plays. The deflected pass from a receiver 10 yards away that fell into his arms. The fumble recovery which landed right in front of him. And a pass completed on him by Toomer on 3rd and long. And this wasn't exactly a game showcasing the passing game. He was decent enough. Again, not someone who deserves any more than an $8 M SB right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 He should be playing well. He played relatively well today. But its not like guys here have some personal bone to pick with Bailey and are just making **** up. He's had, at best, a sub-par season (and I think thats being generous). He set the bar at the start of the season. Its not our fault he's failed to live up to the expectations he himself set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Only being shown for 3 plays in a whole game says alot for a corner. My only point was the usual posters that have been his biggest critics on here have nothing to say. These same posters, act as if they only watch the games to see him fail so they can claim how overrated he is and how we don't need to spend any money on him. If you ran your mouth a few weeks ago, you should be able to run your mouth now. Yet none of them have anything to say today. I know it was a cold day, and usually the passing game isn't a factor in games like this. But none of them wanted to give Champ the benefit of the doubt when he was being screwed by refs for PI calls. All I'm asking, is for these pessimistic people to stop bashing him when he's down, and being no where to be found when he isn't. Act like a real Redskin fan, and cheer our players when they play well and stop using your voice only when they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 We're too busy complaining about Barker. And deservedly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 The reason we've all been all over Champ is because he wanted that 18 million dollar SB before the year. He brought this on himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 It's the money. That's my problem with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 champ played well today. If he won't sign the deal on the table, I won't blink. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Tarhog He should be playing well. He played relatively well today. But its not like guys here have some personal bone to pick with Bailey and are just making **** up. He's had, at best, a sub-par season (and I think thats being generous). He set the bar at the start of the season. Its not our fault he's failed to live up to the expectations he himself set. He has not had a sub-par season. If he'd played like this completely healthy, I would agree with you. But he hasn't really had anything but two bad games. The others, are just games where people have overanalyzed his play, as if he gives up any plays it's automatically a bad game. If he doesn't catch a INT, it's a bad game. Be glad that goes as a deflected pass and not a completion for a first down, and stop being so critical of every little thing he does. Too many fans are looking at the glass as if it's half-empty. I find it's funny that fans compare him to past great corners, yet never want to admit that none of those past corners have dealt with the lack of pass rush he has this season. Oh no, why be objective when you're trying to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I'd say giving up a 14 yd out on 4th and 10 is pretty disappointing. The intercept fell in his lap, along with the Tiki fumble. No one argues with the physical talent and ability of Champ Bailey, only that he wants a cap-busting $18 million bonus yet rarely makes impact plays considered the norm by "elite" defensive players making $18 mil signing bonus. HE DIDN'T MAKE AN IMPACT PLAY TODAY DID HE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 he made two dude. I don't care if you think these are plays that MUST be made by every starter. They were easy plays, but they were plays. Don't take that away. Still, not a penny more than the offer on the table. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlinginSammy HOF '63 Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I wouldn't even think about what he wants if it means we have to sacrifice Lavar later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Skins26 The reason we've all been all over Champ is because he wanted that 18 million dollar SB before the year. He brought this on himself. He brought it on himself? Wow, I would be able to seperate objective thinking from the subjective kind. Analyze the way he plays on the field, don't set the bar extremely high and criticize him for every play he gives up. Ray Lewis misses tackles occasionally, yet that doesn't mean he stops being a great MLB. The same applies to Champ. And if his DL weren't doing their jobs, he would find it alot more difficult to do his. Be fair, and not set unrealistic goals for a player ill-equipped to meet them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 He still does not worth half the money he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Gamebreaker He has not had a sub-par season. If he'd played like this completely healthy, I would agree with you. But he hasn't really had anything but two bad games. The others, are just games where people have overanalyzed his play, as if he gives up any plays it's automatically a bad game. If he doesn't catch a INT, it's a bad game. Be glad that goes as a deflected pass and not a completion for a first down, and stop being so critical of every little thing he does. Too many fans are looking at the glass as if it's half-empty. I find it's funny that fans compare him to past great corners, yet never want to admit that none of those past corners have dealt with the lack of pass rush he has this season. Oh no, why be objective when you're trying to make a point. Don't you think all of us would LOVE to be talking about all of the impact plays he's made this year? Its not personal. But sorry, just can't agree. I'm not even talking about his inability to hold onto an INT and the plays he occasionally appears to quit on. I'm talking about his basic every down play. I just don't see a star corner out there. Sorry. but Fred Smoot's outplayed him this year (he was injured too). I do think you are correct regarding the time QBs have had to throw on us this year. Makes it tougher on any cornerback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Cskin I'd say giving up a 14 yd out on 4th and 10 is pretty disappointing. The intercept fell in his lap, along with the Tiki fumble. No one argues with the physical talent and ability of Champ Bailey, only that he wants a cap-busting $18 million bonus yet rarely makes impact plays considered the norm by "elite" defensive players making $18 mil signing bonus. HE DIDN'T MAKE AN IMPACT PLAY TODAY DID HE? You are the type of fan I'm talking about. You make excuses for the impact plays he makes, then ask what did he do that was so special? Recovering a fumble didn't make an impact on the game? It allowed us to go up 3-0, than I believe it did. He accounted for 2 turnovers, those aren't impact plays? If they aren't then what the hell is your definition of an impact play? So I guess that one play on 4th and 10 overshadows two turnovers. If that is the case than I hope their aren't many fans who think like you, because that is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Gamebreaker You are the type of fan I'm talking about. You make excuses for the impact plays he makes, then ask what did he do that was so special? Recovering a fumble didn't make an impact on the game? It allowed us to go up 3-0, than I believe it did. He accounted for 2 turnovers, those aren't impact plays? If they aren't then what the hell is your definition of an impact play? So I guess that one play on 4th and 10 overshadows two turnovers. If that is the case than I hope their aren't many fans who think like you, because that is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Answer me two questions... 1) Should he go to the Pro Bowl this year? 2) How much money are you willing to offer him at the end of the season? How big of a bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by Tarhog Don't you think all of us would LOVE to be talking about all of the impact plays he's made this year? Its not personal. But sorry, just can't agree. I'm not even talking about his inability to hold onto an INT and the plays he occasionally appears to quit on. I'm talking about his basic every down play. I just don't see a star corner out there. Sorry. but Fred Smoot's outplayed him this year (he was injured too). I do think you are correct regarding the time QBs have had to throw on us this year. Makes it tougher on any cornerback. It's good that you can at least acknowledge the circumstances of playing corner with a DL that has trouble pressuring the QB. I have yet to see a play where he quit before the play was over. The ONLY play I've seen where people gave him criticism of that kind for, was a running play where he came from all the way on the other side of the field to try and catch Ricky Williams. Williams isn't slow, not by indication, and he was still 10 yards away from him. What was he suppose to do? Teleport in front of him and make the tackle? Like I said, unrealistic expectations. No matter what he does, it is viewed as not being good enough. I cannot say Smoot has outplayed Champ when Champ is the only covering the best reciever for most of the game. Smoot has done his job exceptionally well, yet situations have been different. If Gardner could actually catch the ball, he numbers could be comparable to Coles'. Yet I still wouldn't say Gardner has outplayed Coles, because Coles is the primary reciever and his assignment is tougher than Gardner's. The same goes for Champ and Smoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 8, 2003 Author Share Posted December 8, 2003 Originally posted by CrankyTodd Answer me two questions... 1) Should he go to the Pro Bowl this year? 2) How much money are you willing to offer him at the end of the season? How big of a bonus? 1) Champ has given up plays this season he usually hasn't, but this has not been a sub-par season. He's still played like a top corner in this league, just not on his usual level. That said, I think other corners have outplayed him in the NFC, although they were most likely healthier. 2) I would give him a bonus slightly bigger than the highest bonus given to a corner. I can't recall what that was, I think it was somewhere between 10-12 million. Regardless, pay him what he's worth and make it a contract that he not only good for him, but good for the team as well. Don't backload it, but give him a nice amount upfront and don't leave a good chunk of it as an option bonus. Basically, they should offer him a contract similar to the one they offered in pre-season but don't structure it like they did Stephen Davis' and give him a deal that won't have to be redone in the next 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cope Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I am not bashing champ, in fact I would place my self in the supporter category. However, I think his expectations are too high, and if he won't accept something in the area of our first offer, then I think he is going to be gone. If you notice, Chirs McCalister has shut down some very good recievers in the last 5 games: Chad Johnson, Darryl Jackson, Torry Holt, Chris Chambers, Jimmy Smith. I believe the stat I heard was the avg for that set of recievers was like 40 yards on 3 catches per game. He will be available, and I bet its for less then champ. Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 You misunderstood my post. I've never accused Bailey of taking a lot of plays off. I was referencing that 'argument', not saying it was a valid one. Could've worded that post more clearly, my bad. I'm just going to say I disagree with your primary point, that people have it out for Bailey no matter what he does. Look at his first few years here. He was practically worshiped. I don't see how you can argue otherwise? If he's getting some criticism now, its partially because of the self-promotion and chest-thumping he engaged in, and the feeling (you say unfounded, many think its deserved) that he's not been a star playmaker on the field where it counts. And doesn't the fact that there is no one here bashing Bailey after this particular game evidence refuting what you claim to begin with? In other words, when Bailey plays decently, no one's 'out to get him'? I'm done...we can agree to disagree...I'd rather enjoy a win, convincing or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 For all you Champ-haters out there: Collins lit up Smoot like a pinball machine before he was injured. On a bad day for passing Smoot had a very poor game. Smoot cannot handle being our #1 DB. We will cry when Champ leaves.:40oz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just skins baby Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 I think Champ is an excellant player but I just don't think he is worth the money he wants on a defense that has so many holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 He ain't worth the money he wants. End of story. And no lobbying by the President of the Champ Bailey Fan Club (you know who you are) is going to change my mind about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.