grego Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 unfortunately, the car sales thread for last year isnt active ( http://es.redskins.com/topic/384555-to-the-car-salesmen-on-es/), so i wanted to start another and get some ideas. looking at a new car, which i haven't done in awhile. some questions- is december (or the end of the month/year in general) really the best time to buy? -what fees (doc fees, freight, etc- true coat, ya, gotta have that true coat, ya know....) after taxes and tags are real, and what are negotiable? -can a dealership really offer lower financing than your own bank? -and why do dealers always say they can beat your banks rate, then want you to fill out a loan app even if you already have a check in your hand from your bank? -trade in- good idea to trade in at the dealership, or shop around? and, if you've settled on a price for the car you want, will they low ball you on the trade in as part of the negotiation? -some dealers are offering rebates on, in one case, a 2016 kia sorento. msrp is just over 25k, but its listed at just over 19k with rebates. (some rebates are college grad $400, military $1000 , and, i think, a general $1000 manufacturer rebate). that doesnt add up to 6k in savings. so, is that price legit? i think i know the answer to some of these, but any questions and answers, especially from those in the know, would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'm not a dealer. 1. The best time to buy is at the end of the MODEL YEAR which usually happens around September. You can still find last year's stock until later though and that may be the ultimate best time to buy. 2. Not sure about that. Don't need paint protection and extended warranties are pretty much a loss for sure. 3. Dealers can sometimes offer better financing than banks. Best best is to see what you're approved from by your bank first. That way, you can negotiate the price independent of financing. Lots of time you can get lost in the idea of what the monthly payment is instead of what the OTD price is. 4. They get incentives if you finance through them. 5. Shop your trade in. At least take it to CarMax and see what they'll offer you. They will low ball you if you've agreed on a great price for the car. It's all one transaction and they'll try to win any way they can. 6. Rebates are to move cars and usually come from the auto manufacturers. Remember, it's all one transaction so they will probably try to make that rebate up somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I am a dealer...Here we go. 1. Nothing really special, in general, about the end of the year that's different than any other financial quarter. The "end of model year" is a bit of a trick as the rebates in that case tend to specifically offset set depreciation that has occurred...i.e. 2015 models that sold 6 months ago that will have approximately the same value as your just purchased 2015 on the wholesale market. There are good deals out there on new cars, though! 2. Theoretically, everything is negotiable. But your not gonna get a lot of traction fighting over freight. If the doc fee is killing ya, I'll reduce the sales price by that amount, if I can justify it. Tru-coat AKA Pro-Pack is usually a pretty cool product. Tell em you'll do it for a $150. 3. Yes, absolutely. We move millions of dollars through any given bank's finance depts on a monthly basis. We have programs and rate schedules available to us that the average customer simply will not ever see. You may qualify for 3.9 from your bank, I can get 1.9 from mine, I charge you 2.49, you save money and I make money. Economies of scale, sorta. 4. Some trades are quite desirable, most are not. If you feel you have a desirable trade...one that can be reconned and flipped for a profit...the more eyes you get on it, the more it will be worth. Carmax is always a good resource. 5. Yup, sounds legit. If you qualify for all rebates and the dealer sells the car $1000 back of invoice...not likely but possible...that sounds totally legit. PM me if you have some more questions. I'll help you anyway I can. Good luck! Pearsonmazda.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'm not a dealer. 1. The best time to buy is at the end of the MODEL YEAR which usually happens around September. You can still find last year's stock until later though and that may be the ultimate best time to buy. i think thats true. the only caveat is that youre buying the last models of the year, so resale will likely be a little less. buet, if youre saving enough..... 3. Dealers can sometimes offer better financing than banks. Best best is to see what you're approved from by your bank first. That way, you can negotiate the price independent of financing. Lots of time you can get lost in the idea of what the monthly payment is instead of what the OTD price is. true. now, in my past experiences buying used cars, i got preapproved thru my bank and had a check from them in hand, so by doing the math i knew exactly what my car payments would be at a given out the door price. 4. They get incentives if you finance through them. just talked to a salesmen and he said the same thing. even if its not the very cheapest rate, they may offer discounts to make it worth it over the life of the loan. 5. Shop your trade in. At least take it to CarMax and see what they'll offer you. They will low ball you if you've agreed on a great price for the car. It's all one transaction and they'll try to win any way they can. probably doing that tonight. i've had both good and bad experiences with carmax when it comes to trade ins. a few years ago, they offered me the most out of 3 places (2 were dealerships where i was looking to buy). offers varied, so it does pay to get one or two alternate estimates. i used the carmax quote as leverage to get another thousand over their initial offer. 6 Rebates are to move cars and usually come from the auto manufacturers. Remember, it's all one transaction so they will probably try to make that rebate up somewhere else. to add to this, from what i understand, since the dealers are reimbursed directly for rebates, there isnt as much pressure to make up the difference, since the dealer isnt actually out any money. but as far as all being one transaction, i think thats true, so if youre getting a good deal on a car and its not in the form of something they get reimbursed with, they'll make their money somewhere, thru 'reconditioning fees' of over $1000 on used cars, in some cases, or charging extra (twice) for freight or destination charge when its already included on the invoice for a new car. good points, spriingfield. thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 I am a dealer...Here we go. thanks, beal. will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 This was a great podcast, it's not instructional per se, but you can get a good insight into what sales at a car dealership is like. http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/513/129-cars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Go Figure TryTheBeal lol The only part I would disagree with is the lending part. I always beat the dealers, but I have good credit. I usually refer my friends to a couple different credit unions with unbeatable rates for the most part. I have others with better auto loans, but not all as easily to qualify. PenFed costs something like $14 to join some military support group one time fee. Interest rates for new cars below. https://www.penfed.org/New-Auto-Loan/?WT.ac=1853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 One other thing, in MD there is a tax implication with regards to trading in your car versus a carmax deal, then cash transaction. Not sure where you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Go Figure TryTheBeal lol The only part I would disagree with is the lending part. I always beat the dealers, but I have good credit. I usually refer my friends to a couple different credit unions with unbeatable rates for the most part. I have others with better auto loans, but not all as easily to qualify. PenFed costs something like $14 to join some military support group one time fee. Interest rates for new cars below. https://www.penfed.org/New-Auto-Loan/?WT.ac=1853 What's so funny? But yeah, if you have sterling credit you're probably good to go. Anything under 720 beacon and I can likely save you money...the lower your score, the more likely I can help you. One other thing, in MD there is a tax implication with regards to trading in your car versus a carmax deal, then cash transaction. Not sure where you live. .25% tax in Henrico County on difference between sale price and appraised value of trade. Not really a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 How do you define "DAGGER!"? How about taking your car you bought used to carmax for an appraisal, only to find out it has frame damage .... And I actually got a carfax before I bought it. There was an accident listed, but the bastiges I bought it from forgot to mention the part about the frame. Nice. **** me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 That sucks. Do you owe money on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Yeah...If you owe on it makes a huge difference. You could sell it privately and withhold that info...but that's just as crappy a thing to do to the next person as the last folks did to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 Ya. About 8k. Carmax offered 7. Just went through all of my paperwork from when I bought it. Carfax report isn't in there. Odd. Or not. Cuz I definitely had one at the dealership. And the inspection paper they fill out has a few things left blank, concerning vehicle history and certification. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Carfax isn't failsafe. I don't know what reporting rules are. I know a mechanic and he put in a new engine on a car—I asked if he's required to report it (to Carfax) and he said he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Carfax isn't failsafe. I don't know what reporting rules are. I know a mechanic and he put in a new engine on a car—I asked if he's required to report it (to Carfax) and he said he doesn't. There are no reporting rules. Carfax might give folks piece of mind but it doesn't really mean much. Some insurance companies wont share car information with carfax. Nothing is "reported" to them, they buy the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 $1K flipped isn't too bad. Dirty Carfax and "frame damage" are two very different things, though. I wonder how they came to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Hog Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I've read that the extra warranty and the under carriage protection are not worth it. This article may be helpful: http://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/buying-a-car-what-dealer-add-ons-should-you-avoid-227127 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 $1K flipped isn't too bad. Dirty Carfax and "frame damage" are two very different things, though. I wonder how they came to that conclusion. There was an accident reported on carfax. Some parts repainted, and they inspected the frame, saw clamp marks from a frame machine. Definitely could have been worse, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I've read that the extra warranty and the under carriage protection are not worth it. Always felt the same, but here up north rust is an issue. I might spring for it. The metal transmission fluid line on my Jeep Liberty wore away and it had to be replaced. Now that was only about $150 repair, so in the end it's a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Pretty much any car built in the past decade should have adequate under proofing from the factory. YMMV, in extreme winter states. Aftermarket "warranties" may have value for you in as much as they can provide protection for your budget and the piece of mind any insurance plan might give you. Buying a used civic...you prolly don't need one. Buying a used Land Rover...go ahead and get the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 sorry beal, are you referring to the undercarriage coating as "warranty" or are you saying it may void the warranty to add it? Or none of the above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 sorry beal, are you referring to the undercarriage coating as "warranty" or are you saying it may void the warranty to add it? Or none of the above? Shoulda put a couple returns in there. Purchased service contracts are totally different than any sort of under coating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 $1K flipped isn't too bad. Dirty Carfax and "frame damage" are two very different things, though. I wonder how they came to that conclusion. Maybe the Frame Damage light was on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 CarFax certainly isn't a failsafe. If you don't go through insurance for an accident...I don't believe they have to report anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Go Figure TryTheBeal lol The only part I would disagree with is the lending part. I always beat the dealers, but I have good credit. I usually refer my friends to a couple different credit unions with unbeatable rates for the most part. I have others with better auto loans, but not all as easily to qualify. PenFed costs something like $14 to join some military support group one time fee. Interest rates for new cars below. https://www.penfed.org/New-Auto-Loan/?WT.ac=1853 Surprisingly, last year when buying a Honda CRV the dealer was able to beat my credit union rate. I have almost near perfect credit. I was pretty shocked. Wasn't a huge difference, but slightly better. First time ever it has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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