Mufumonk Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Oops! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Great documentary. Will never step foot in a Sea World again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted December 12, 2013 Author Share Posted December 12, 2013 Sea World's Latest Problem: Rock Stars Won't Perform There. www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-12-11/seaworlds-latest-problem-rock-stars-wont-perform-there I have a feeling Sea World's going to end up suing CNN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Ok so I saw blackfish. Documents how they catch killer whales.... which is kind of rough... Then tells you how terrible their conditions are especially if they are not fortuneate enough to be in a park like seaworld... I'm like ok but that park must have been doing something right because their blackfish was the largest in captivity and they got him as a baby.. But ok... Fish eats first human... a swim team chick who they made a trainer... Ok Ok, some chicks can be very annoying.. It's a shame Sea World buys the fish for breeding because the other park needs to get rid of him and after all he's worth a few million dollars... Ok I don't see a problem there.. Sea World doesn't tell it's trainers that this big black fish just ate it's last trainer... Ok kind of scummy.... but fish performs for years without eating any sea world babes... ok... Fish has an "episode"... some dude breaks into sea world at night and tries to go skinny dipping with Mr. Blackfish.... Blackfish eats his second human... very sad, but he can't sue cause he's dead and he was trespassing anyway. Sea world basically says it's the dead dudes fault. Few more years go by.....Sea world babe short fishes the blackfish after one of his tricks... Blackfish is pissed. Blackfish eats chick, this time a sea world chick.. Ok Sea world starts spreading it around that the chick provoked him... pony tail... going into the water without a spotter.. none of it's true... not many people know this fish has now killed three people... That factoid starts to get around.... Sea world is exposed for basically being shmucks. Lawyers start circling the fish place... They also go into various lies which Sea World tells the public... Only it's the former trainers who are telling us these lies sea world tells and they are the ones on tape saying the lies.... They discuss how poorly credentialed these trainers are... No joke... One lie is the fish in capitivity only live to be 30 years old, but in the wild live to be 80-100... Film says "human life expectancy"... ok These sea world trainers are telling us that sea world gave them that false information.... So these trainers don't even know how long a blackfish live in the wild? I'm asking myself how does that work? I mean seriously how clueless can you be? So what do we have.. we have hundreds of these killer whales in captivity doing shows every day, You have Sea World who is getting sued. You have this tape which kind of suggests sea world is kind of scummy. Yet hundreds of these black fish swim with trainers, throwing them, balancing them on their noses.., generating millions for these theme parks,, maybe billions; and have done so for 30 years or longer... We also have one fish who has eaten three people. He might have eaten a few more, but they got away.... I have to ask, is that an indictment on all killer whale shows or is it an indictment on this whale? Does one killer whale killing three folks over a 20 year period really justify dramatically changing how these shows are performed? I thought blackfish was a very interesting documentary.. but it didn't prove to me whale shows were bad. It proved to me this one monster large male killer whale was bad and shouldn't be used in shows. It also proved to me sea world was kind of a scummy organization at least that's what some folks want us to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ok so I saw blackfish. Documents how they catch killer whales.... which is kind of rough... Then tells you how terrible their conditions are especially if they are not fortuneate enough to be in a park like seaworld... I'm like ok but that park must have been doing something right because their blackfish was the largest in captivity and they got him as a baby.. But ok... Fish eats first human... a swim team chick who they made a trainer... Ok Ok, some chicks can be very annoying.. It's a shame Sea World buys the fish for breeding because the other park needs to get rid of him and after all he's worth a few million dollars... Ok I don't see a problem there.. Sea World doesn't tell it's trainers that this big black fish just ate it's last trainer... Ok kind of scummy.... but fish performs for years without eating any sea world babes... ok... Fish has an "episode"... some dude breaks into sea world at night and tries to go skinny dipping with Mr. Blackfish.... Blackfish eats his second human... very sad, but he can't sue cause he's dead and he was trespassing anyway. Sea world basically says it's the dead dudes fault. Few more years go by.....Sea world babe short fishes the blackfish after one of his tricks... Blackfish is pissed. Blackfish eats chick, this time a sea world chick.. Ok Sea world starts spreading it around that the chick provoked him... pony tail... going into the water without a spotter.. none of it's true... not many people know this fish has now killed three people... That factoid starts to get around.... Sea world is exposed for basically being shmucks. Lawyers start circling the fish place... They also go into various lies which Sea World tells the public... Only it's the former trainers who are telling us these lies sea world tells and they are the ones on tape saying the lies.... They discuss how poorly credentialed these trainers are... No joke... One lie is the fish in captivity only live to be 30 years old, but in the wild live to be 80-100... Film says "human life expectancy"... ok These sea world trainers are telling us that sea world gave them that false information.... So these trainers don't even know how long a blackfish live in the wild? I'm asking myself how does that work? I mean seriously how clueless can you be? So what do we have.. we have hundreds of these killer whales in captivity doing shows every day, You have Sea World who is getting sued. You have this tape which kind of suggests sea world is kind of scummy. Yet hundreds of these black fish swim with trainers, throwing them, balancing them on their noses.., generating millions for these theme parks,, maybe billions; and have done so for 30 years or longer... We also have one fish who has eaten three people. He might have eaten a few more, but they got away.... I have to ask, is that an indictment on all killer whale shows or is it an indictment on this whale? Does one killer whale killing three folks over a 20 year period really justify dramatically changing how these shows are performed? I thought blackfish was a very interesting documentary.. but it didn't prove to me whale shows were bad. It proved to me this one monster large male killer whale was bad and shouldn't be used in shows. It also proved to me sea world was kind of a scummy organization at least that's what some folks want us to believe. I just caught Blackfish on Netflix last night and assumed there was a topic on ES. Low and behold... I think the root of the problem is holding these animals in captivity in the first place. That is why they show acts of aggression not only towards each other, but towards humans. As mentioned, there have been no cases of Orca aggression against humans in the wild. These animals travel and live with their families. When SeaWorld separates them as depicted in the documentary, not only does it cause grief (which BTW, that scene was a little heartbreaking), but odd and aggressive behavior (a la attacking one another). While normally, these animals would have thousands of miles to roam around, they have nowhere to escape here. IMHO, whales like Tilikum should be released into an sanctuary in the Ocean as I doubt he could survive in the wild. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the whole situation is just plain sad. These aren't chickens - they're very intelligent animals. I've always felt negatively about the circus, zoos, etc. This just reaffirms that. (Of course, I know there are establishments that only work with animals who are injured or need sanctuary. I'm fine with that.) Anybody else catch the movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeddyKGB Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Anyone who liked this movie should see "The Cove" also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I think the root of the problem is holding these animals in captivity in the first place. That is why they show acts of aggression not only towards each other, but towards humans. As mentioned, there have been no cases of Orca aggression against humans in the wild. Why "they" show aggression? Blackfish dealt with two animals? which killed 4 times across two continents and decades. 90% of the movie dealt with one fish.. The second fish who killed the guy in the Canary Islands was introduced and covered in about 5 minutes. We really don't know what happened to that guy. We know he was a happy well liked guy who was excited about his job right... We don't know why out of what looked like 20 trainers who had close contact with the fish, why that fish decided to kill this guy.. .Or even if it was on purpose... Looks like the Fish in Florida which killed 3 people over a decade, just occasionally get's pissed off and decides to take it out on who's around... Probable not a great choice for children shows... but also doesn't seem representative of all the blackfish in captivity. IMHO, whales like Tilikum should be released into an sanctuary in the Ocean as I doubt he could survive in the wild. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but the whole situation is just plain sad. These aren't chickens - they're very intelligent animals. How would that work exactly? Who runs the sanctuary, who pays for it, and who pays for the 300 pounds of fish one of these monsters eats every day? I agree though that releasing them into the wild is probable a death sentence. Maybe a moratorium on future captures as we don't need this problem getting any larger... Maybe also creating a certification for the trainers... some sort of degree in marine biology and animal behavior seems like it would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanSoMD Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ok so I saw blackfish. Documents how they catch killer whales.... which is kind of rough... Then tells you how terrible their conditions are especially if they are not fortuneate enough to be in a park like seaworld... I'm like ok but that park must have been doing something right because their blackfish was the largest in captivity and they got him as a baby.. But ok... Fish eats first human... a swim team chick who they made a trainer... Ok Ok, some chicks can be very annoying.. It's a shame Sea World buys the fish for breeding because the other park needs to get rid of him and after all he's worth a few million dollars... Ok I don't see a problem there.. Sea World doesn't tell it's trainers that this big black fish just ate it's last trainer... Ok kind of scummy.... but fish performs for years without eating any sea world babes... ok... Fish has an "episode"... some dude breaks into sea world at night and tries to go skinny dipping with Mr. Blackfish.... Blackfish eats his second human... very sad, but he can't sue cause he's dead and he was trespassing anyway. Sea world basically says it's the dead dudes fault. Few more years go by.....Sea world babe short fishes the blackfish after one of his tricks... Blackfish is pissed. Blackfish eats chick, this time a sea world chick.. Ok Sea world starts spreading it around that the chick provoked him... pony tail... going into the water without a spotter.. none of it's true... not many people know this fish has now killed three people... That factoid starts to get around.... Sea world is exposed for basically being shmucks. Lawyers start circling the fish place... They also go into various lies which Sea World tells the public... Only it's the former trainers who are telling us these lies sea world tells and they are the ones on tape saying the lies.... They discuss how poorly credentialed these trainers are... No joke... One lie is the fish in capitivity only live to be 30 years old, but in the wild live to be 80-100... Film says "human life expectancy"... ok These sea world trainers are telling us that sea world gave them that false information.... So these trainers don't even know how long a blackfish live in the wild? I'm asking myself how does that work? I mean seriously how clueless can you be? So what do we have.. we have hundreds of these killer whales in captivity doing shows every day, You have Sea World who is getting sued. You have this tape which kind of suggests sea world is kind of scummy. Yet hundreds of these black fish swim with trainers, throwing them, balancing them on their noses.., generating millions for these theme parks,, maybe billions; and have done so for 30 years or longer... We also have one fish who has eaten three people. He might have eaten a few more, but they got away.... I have to ask, is that an indictment on all killer whale shows or is it an indictment on this whale? Does one killer whale killing three folks over a 20 year period really justify dramatically changing how these shows are performed? I thought blackfish was a very interesting documentary.. but it didn't prove to me whale shows were bad. It proved to me this one monster large male killer whale was bad and shouldn't be used in shows. It also proved to me sea world was kind of a scummy organization at least that's what some folks want us to believe. I read this in Otter Stratton's voice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I read this in Otter Stratton's voice I was kind of going for John Blutarsky; I'll work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFanSoMD Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was kind of going for John Blutarsky; I'll work on that. I don't know if he would be intelligent enough to come up with that in depth of an analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I don't know if he would be intelligent enough to come up with that in depth of an analysis. He did go to college.. And then became a Senator.. But then he regressed. This is really the stage I try to pattern my arguments after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I was really referencing the wounds inflicted upon Tilikum from other whales (leading to his separation)... activity that they said normally doesn't occur in the wild. Maybe I'm just a softie - even when I was a kid, I remember seeing intelligent animals in captivity and seeing the look in their eyes - "please kill me now" - just doesn't seem right to pluck animals from their natural environment (esp the size of an Orca) for display. And there are enough interested parties, I'm sure, to create and maintain an 'open sea' kind of sanctuary. It's really not an impossible idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I went to the Washington National Zoo about 15 years ago, got depressed, and have never been to an animal park again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 And there are enough interested parties, I'm sure, to create and maintain an 'open sea' kind of sanctuary. It's really not an impossible idea. Big angry mal adjusted fish... I don't know if their are enough "interested parties" to support the infrastructure necessary. I remember reading it costs millions of dollars to set up the nets to protect Australia beaches from Great White Sharks.. Sanctuary would need the same thing only on a much larger scale... Then the fundraisers could start to work on the daily lunch bill.. An even bigger problem would be who's going to voluntarily surrender blackfish to this sanctuary. The documentary said Tilikum was worth several million dollars after his first kill and that must have been a decade ago. If the documentary was informative about anything I think it was informative about the motivations of Sea World. They are a business and motivated by money. I don't see Tilikum being donated to a sanctuary out of the goodness of Sea World's heart. I went to the Washington National Zoo about 15 years ago, got depressed, and have never been to an animal park again. And the Washington National Zoo is frankly pretty good, as is the San Diego Zoo. You want a more representative impression of a zoo go to the Baltimore Zoo, or the Montgomery Al Zoo. Those places will scar you for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 For some reason I saw this in my twitter feed:https://twitter.com/SeaWorld/status/426118928947871744 Hear the real SeaWorld story from trainers past and present. Don’t be misled by activist hype http://bit.ly/1hju3Ku pic.twitter.com/yGnf9utMFh 5:27 PM - 22 Jan 2014 Apparently it's being promoted now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I've seen the Shamoo show at sea world many many times.. I think I've probable seen Timkin a half dozen times going back a decade. My father when he was still alive loved that show... It's impressive as hell seeing such a monster fish do tricks... Having seen the shows what struck me as true in Blackfish was (1) talking about the credentials of the trainers being basically kids who work cheap and can swim well. I was amazed at that because Sea world absolutely puts on like they are all marine biologists and hyper credentialed. (2) I was amazed in the movie that these killer whales only live for like a third as long in captivity as they do in the wild... I've heard the sea world trainers discuss the life expectancy of killer whales as 30-40 years "better than in the wild".... That killer whales live for nearly 100 years in the wild really touched sea worlds credibility... Finally the collapsed dorsal fine... I remember the sea world trainers speaking of that too... that like 98% of captive killer whale males have that collapsed dorsal, and only around 2% have it in the wild, again just rang true.. What I couldn't embrace or get my head around was that these fish were so dangerous. Ok Timkin has killed what three people? That says to me Timkin is dangerous... We got another blackfish in the canary islands who killed another kid.. That's two fish, out of what 40 years, and hundreds of captive orca's. I don't think the movie made it's point.... They need to deal with Timkin, It doesn't seem to me that that means all killer whale shows need to be outlawed on the grounds these blackfish are dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.