***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[RonArtest15]

He plays for Houston. Everytime he shoots a mid-range jumper, Morey kills a puppy.

 

You guys are smarter than this. Harden had one bad playoff series and you have all determined he is "bad in the playoffs." This is Skip Bayless logic.

 

His playoff numbers are pretty much identical to his regular season numbers.

 

Coming off of a HORRID finals performance w/ OKC, he was not good in the series vs. the Thunder when he was on the Rockets last year. If' you're only looking at points, sure, you can argue that he maintained his average....however, the shooting % and shot quality left a lot to be desired.  He needs to be better going forward if the Rockets want to making things interesting in the West and actually challenge to come out of the conference. 

[JoeWolf990]

Coming off of a HORRID finals performance w/ OKC, he was not good in the series vs. the Thunder when he was on the Rockets last year. If' you're only looking at points, sure, you can argue that he maintained his average....however, the shooting % and shot quality left a lot to be desired.  He needs to be better going forward if the Rockets want to making things interesting in the West and actually challenge to come out of the conference.

yeah, and he wasnt good in the Lakers series in 2012 either.

When those fouls arent being called and he is forced to do on his own, he isnt the same player.

Im not a fan of dude at all. Houston wont do anything with he and Howard leading them.

[Ozymandias]

Wait so you guys are telling me, if you had to pick one to start your team, youd pick parsons?

[Predicto]

I would take Harden, but I wouldn't like it.  His ability to draw fouls on defenders who are actively trying not to foul is downright incredible, and surely helps his team win, but it ruins the beautiful game that is basketball.   I would like to see rules changes that make Harden-ball no longer work, but I'm not sure what they would be. 

Wait so you guys are telling me, if you had to pick one to start your team, youd pick parsons?

 

Oh hell no.

[JoeWolf990]

Wait so you guys are telling me, if you had to pick one to start your team, youd pick parsons?

Its a flawed question because having Parsons or Harden as your centerpiece wont lead you to a title.

But if I had a Durant or Lebron, id take Parsons over Harden.

Parsons is effing good. I dont think a lot of people realize that.

[RonArtest15]

Wait so you guys are telling me, if you had to pick one to start your team, youd pick parsons?

 

Who are "you guys?"  LOL.

 

Harden is my dude. 

[Ozymandias]

Its a flawed question because having Parsons or Harden as your centerpiece wont lead you to a title.

But if I had a Durant or Lebron, id take Parsons over Harden.

Parsons is effing good. I dont think a lot of people realize that.

 

You're avoiding the question. You said Parsons > Harden. So if it comes down to Parsons and Harden, just say you would take Parsons. It's a hypothetical question for a reason. It's comparing the two, if you had to choose one to start your team, who would you have? Simple.

 

 

Who are "you guys?"  LOL.

 

Harden is my dude. 

 

I thought there was more than just one person who said they'd rather have Parsons lol thus the "you guys"

[RonArtest15]

Let me see if I can explain what JoeW was trying to get at....

 

Obviously, Harden is the better player.  ****, he's a top-15 guy in the league.  HOWEVER, a guy with his skill set is not going to mesh with everyone.  Same thing can be said about Melo.

 

While Parsons is not a better player than Harden, you can put him on any team in the league and he'll fit in seamlessly.  Dude will quietly get you something close to 15/5/5 every night. 

 

If you're choosing between the two straight up, it's Harden.

 

If you choosing between the two and you already have a guy like KD or Lebron on your squad, you'd probably roll with Parsons. 

[JoeWolf990]

You're avoiding the question. You said Parsons > Harden. So if it comes down to Parsons and Harden, just say you would take Parsons. It's a hypothetical question for a reason. It's comparing the two, if you had to choose one to start your team, who would you have? Simple.

its not a simple question. Its like asking, "would you start a team with Klay Thompson or Luol Deng?"

Um, neither because that means we going to the lottery or 7th or 8th seed.

I like Parsons more, but Harden better.

Edited January 30, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[RonArtest15]

Martin Brian Ansah ‏@DaAnsahonSports 9m

Kyrie Irving has been telling people privately that he wants out of Cleveland. ( espn )

 

 

Chad Ford is the ESPN source. 

Edited January 30, 2014 by RonArtest15

[Ozymandias]

its not a simple question. Its like asking, "would you start a team with Klay Thompson or Luol Deng?"

Um, neither because that means we going to the lottery or 7th or 8th seed.

I like Parsons more, but Harden better.

 

If it had to be between those two, id pick Klay Thompson.

 

Okay so you say you like Parsons more, but harden is better. I can understand that, what I didnt understand was "Parsons>Harden" 

 

Those two statements contradict one another.

 

Chad Ford is the ESPN source. 

 

Funniest thing about that:

 

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/10/nba-cleveland-cavaliers-kyrie-irving-lebron-james/

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

 

While Parsons is not a better player than Harden, you can put him on any team in the league and he'll fit in seamlessly.  Dude will quietly get you something close to 15/5/5 every night. 

 

I don't think so. Parsons fits with certain teams really well. I don't think he'd fit it on the Spurs or Pacers. I think he would be okay on the Heat. I think he would be a monster on Golden State. He needs to be on a team that wants to push the ball and play the drive and kick game. Because he can run and knock down threes.

 

It's like Ryan Anderson. He needs to play in a certain system with certain types of players. In the right system, he's a monster. In the wrong system, he's just a floppy haired guy running around aimlessly.

[JoeWolf990]

you are doing a major disservice saying Parsons is like Ryan Anderson. Parsons can create his own shots.

He not elite there, but he isnt just a spot up shooter.

He and Anderson are two different types of players too. Different positions on the court.

Edited January 30, 2014 by JoeWolf990

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

you are doing a major disservice saying Parsons is like Ryan Anderson. Parsons can create his own shots.

 

I live in Houston and watch the Rockets and I've never seen this part of Parson's game. And with Harden and Lin on the team, it's not like he gets a lot of isolation plays to demonstrate this skill if it exists.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother

[Going Commando]

Damn. Where was all this Harden and Love criticism a year or two ago?

I think Harden is a star and that you can build a winner around him and his offensive game. He is ball dominant, especially for a 2. He isn't a knock down jump shooter. And he's left hand dominant. And he does rely on jumping into defenders and getting whistles, which can be a bit of a problem in the postseason when they swallow the whistles.

But he scores in tremendous volume and he creates his own offense. And he's a good crunch time creator, which is worth it's weight in gold. And he's a good passer too.

He should develop a Chauncey Billups-like post game to fall back on in the playoffs. As strong as he is, it could work for him.

Harden's biggest flaw is his defense IMO. It's pretty putrid. And he's a big SG with long arms, it could be good. But he doesn't care. Houston has Dwight Howard and they're still fairly lousy on D. Their perimeter defenders are pretty putrid and they let opponents get a free run on their bigs.

Their run and gun system doesn't do them any favors defensively. They chuck up three pointers non stop and don't put in effort on D as a team. But that's what they want to do and that's what the stat nerds that worship Daryl Morey like to see.

At any rate, I think Houston needs to become more balanced as they mature as a team. Do more legit inside scoring and show an ability to thrive at a slower pace too. And also play some defense on the perimeter. And I think they can build a serious team around Harden and Dwight. It's going to be fascinating to watch the WC playoff bracket unfold. I can't wait to see how Houston, L.A., Golden State, and Portland do.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Damn. Where was all this Harden and Love criticism a year or two ago?

 

 

I'm not down on Harden. I'm a little down on Love.

 

And for all the flaws with Houston, they are 14 games over .500 and absolutely own the Spurs. So, I mean, that's good.

 

And they are still stupidly young.

 

Harden is 24.

Parsons in 25.

Lin is 25.

Jones is 22.

Beverly is 25.

 

Howard is Old Man River down there at 28.

 

It's a flawed team, but it should get better. They had better get something for Asik quickly though.

[Going Commando]

On Love, he's definitely flawed. Everyone is right about his flaws. He hasn't been able to carry a team to winning records, which is an issue when you're talking about one of the most individually prolific PFs in the game. Dirk and KG played on one star constructions most of their careers and they won a LOT more than Love has. KG's teams were just as trash as Love's were. Dirk has almost never had a losing record despite playing with a revolving door of supporting players.

And Minnesota has had a pretty good group of players the past two years. And there were openings at the bottom of the playoff bracket for Minny to sneak in last two seasons and they didn't. Utah made it in over them? Really?

BUT, even though he's a flawed player, he's still has the potential to be EXTREMELY valuable for the right team IMO. He needs to be on a team with a legit second star and that ain't Rubio or Pekovic. He needs other floor spacers for his inside game and he DEFINITELY needs a true Center with size to play with. Someone who has some defensive talent. And he needs to play in a system that moves the ball and not some potential Lakers team where he and Russell Westbrook take turns hogging it and getting bounced from the first or second round of the playoffs each year.

In short, he needs to play in D.C. with John Wall and Bradley Beal. His value is as a co-star. He would be an amazing fit with Wall and Beal and I think DC would embrace him fairly quickly. Especially since his dad won a championship here.

Edited January 30, 2014 by stevemcqueen1

[Sticksboi05]

Can't stop him. Best you can do is try and deny him his spots, and deny him the ball before he catches it. Play up on him when he has the ball on the perimeter and hope the help gets there. He's going to draw fouls and make shots in your face. You just have to defend him with your whole team, count on your help, and give him as little space as possible for jumpers. I think you also have to try and get physical with him like teams used to try and do with Prime Dirk to disrupt his rhythms. But KD seems to thrive on physicality and get mad and play better sometimes.

He's definitely unique. Some sort of weird mix of Larry Bird and George Gervin. A legit killer instinct. He's got all sorts of other little wrinkles to his offensive game too.

I think Indy could definitely defend OKC. KD might drop 40, but George would make him work for it and the rest of OKC would get beaten. And I think Memphis with Gasol is a scary matchup for OKC because they can defend them too. But I don't think anyone else can.

 

This is a good description.  Bird's lethal shooting + Gervin's scoring prowess.  Durant has the talent to finish as a top 10 player ever, I've said this for a while.  LeBron already is.  I put Durant slightly below LeBron and Bird skill/talent-wise because he isn't an elite playmaker like James or an all-time great passer like Bird. but now that he is playing D he is really completing his game.  Of course Bird was also an elite rebounder which the other two aren't.  Either way by 2020, those are your top 3 small forwards ever.  Sorry Melo.

 

He's putting up 50-40-90 with 28 ppg (only guy to do that besides Larry Bird) except he's 25.. 25...that's scary.

[Going Commando]

This is a good description.  Bird's lethal shooting + Gervin's scoring prowess.  Durant has the talent to finish as a top 10 player ever, I've said this for a while.  LeBron already is.  I put Durant slightly below LeBron and Bird skill/talent-wise because he isn't an elite playmaker like James or an all-time great passer like Bird. but now that he is playing D he is really completing his game.  Of course Bird was also an elite rebounder which the other two aren't.  Either way by 2020, those are your top 3 small forwards ever.  Sorry Melo.

 

He's putting up 50-40-90 with 28 ppg (only guy to do that besides Larry Bird) except he's 25.. 25...that's scary.

If Durant plays for a long time, he could climb ahead of Bird IMO. 25 and this accomplished already is crazy. Figure we've got another five seasons of top of the NBA play if he doesn't get hurt.

And he has the type of game to be very productive deep into his 30s too whereas I'm not sure LeBron does. At least not without evolving his game some and finding a PG to play with.

I was actually kind of surprised to find that SF wasn't as strong a position on the All Time NBA list. I think you're taking a pretty big step down from LeBron and Bird to Rick Barry, Gervin, Havlicek, and Elgin Baylor. I think Durant finishes a top three SF easily.

[Going Commando]

I'm not down on Harden. I'm a little down on Love.

 

And for all the flaws with Houston, they are 14 games over .500 and absolutely own the Spurs. So, I mean, that's good.

 

And they are still stupidly young.

 

Harden is 24.

Parsons in 25.

Lin is 25.

Jones is 22.

Beverly is 25.

 

Howard is Old Man River down there at 28.

 

It's a flawed team, but it should get better. They had better get something for Asik quickly though.

Yeah they have a ton of time to get it figured out. Their cap situation is favorable right now and Howard and Harden are under contract for a long time. And as you point out, everyone is young. I think it might take a couple offseasons to get the right mix of role players around their guys. But they're already close. And the West is kind of a rock papers scissors power mix right now. Everyone has a flaw that a bad match up can bring out. Whose to say the playoff bracket doesn't break Houston's way and they get hot and make a run?

Indy and Miami aren't unbeatable either.

They do need to move Asik though. I think they've waited too long and they're losing a lot of value on him. IMO they should have called up the Wizards when Emeka Okafor got hurt and done a swap for Trevor Ariza straight up. Maybe they didn't like Ariza from his brief time in Houston, but this D.C. Trevor Ariza is pretty damn good. He could definitely help their team and help them save almost enough money for a max deal this summer. Three forward rotation with him, Terrence Jones, and Chandler Parsons. They might actually be able to defend the perimeter too.

And Asik could have helped the Wizards but now they have Marcin Gortat and don't have the money or the minutes for Asik really. It was a deal that made sense for both sides last summer.

[Going Commando]

Chad Ford is the ESPN source.

If this is true, I think Kyrie needs to suck it up and be patient. He should talk to his buddy John Wall about his first three seasons in the NBA. LeBron put in 7 seasons in Cleveland and took them to a Finals appearance before leaving as a free agent and he was persona non grata for it. If Kyrie forces his way out while still on his rookie deal, he's going to be hated.

Kyrie is also part of the problem in Cleveland because he hasn't really improved from his rookie season. He's going to get a Derrick Rose max extension too.

Kyrie's on court resume also doesn't match up with the strength of his brand at all. He's been given a whole lot of unearned respect so far. He only played 9 games at Duke and was the #1 pick. He's been a one dimensional player that's missed a lot of games on awful teams in Cleveland his first two and a half years. But he did make a bunch of snappy commercials for Pepsi and win a three point contest and outperform a very weak rookie class and has one of the strongest brands in the league...

[Destino]

Kyrie is having a sort of a disappointing season. His team is still not winning and instead of a third year leap many of his numbers are down. The year isn't over though and even at his current production he's an allstar level player.

In other news allstar reserves announced.

East: Roy Hibbert (Pacers), John Wall (Wizards), Joakim Noah (Bulls), DeMar DeRozan (Raptors), Paul Millsap (Hawks), Chris Bosh (Heat) and Joe Johnson (Nets).

West: Dwight Howard (Rockets), LaMarcus Aldridge (Blazers), Damian Lillard (Blazers), Tony Parker (Spurs), Dirk Nowitzki (Mavericks), Chris Paul (Clippers) and James Harden (Rockets)

Edited January 31, 2014 by Destino

[Predicto]

In other news allstar reserves announced.

East: Roy Hibbert (Pacers), John Wall (Wizards), Joakim Noah (Bulls), DeMar DeRozan (Raptors), Paul Millsap (Hawks), Chris Bosh (Heat) and Joe Johnson (Nets).

West: Dwight Howard (Rockets), LaMarcus Aldridge (Blazers), Damian Lillard (Blazers), Tony Parker (Spurs), Dirk Nowitzki (Mavericks), Chris Paul (Clippers) and James Harden (Rockets)

 

I might have gone with Mike Conley over Lillard.  I think Aldridge is the man that makes the Blazers go, not Damian.  

Edited January 31, 2014 by Predicto

[Going Commando]

Anthony Davis is the biggest snub IMO. He should have gotten in. Definitely over Lillard. They already have CP3, Harden, and Tony Parker going anyway. That was straight up punishment for his team's record and reward for Lillard's team's record. Hopefully Kobe Bryant will take himself out of the game and Davis will get to go.

On the East, it's just plain silly that Joe Johnson got in. If there aren't five guards that deserve to go, then take another forward or big man. Don't force a completely ordinary, washed up Joe Johnson playing for the league's most disappointing team over the first half into the game.

Also I'm a little surprised they went with DeRozan over Lowery. Lowery is the best player on the team. He should have made it over Joe Johnson.

[Going Commando]

But I think the coaches got all the other reserves right. All of the West reserves deserved to go even if Davis did too. Kobe is the only guy that shouldn't be there, and he said so himself.

The East is far weaker. But Wall, Noah, Hibbert, and Bosh were all no brainers. Millsap is deserving, he's carrying a middling Atlanta team without Horford. And DeRozan has a decent case as a last man in. Swap Johnson for Lowery and the selections would be fair.

The starters are still wrong. Wall should be starting over Irving and Hibbert should replace Wade in the starting line up with George sliding down to SG.