Mr. Sinister Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) I think that stuff is incredibly overblown. You are rich. Every-freaking-where is nice when you are rich. And when you have to dedicate so much time to your craft, you're not partying 24/7 if you want to have a successful career. And for the times when you get a chance to kick it, you can literally go anywhere in the world you want to, first class. The media is ridiculous with that stuff. If location matters, it will have something to do with finances. Edited February 12, 2018 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 28 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: The media is ridiculous with that stuff. If location matters, it will have something to do with finances. Yeah, like state tax... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: LKB has been crowing too hard about the success of Boston this season. They beat up on a soft schedule over the first half and reality is setting in. He was right that I didn't look at the Kyrie Irving trade from Boston's perspective, and that Isaiah Thomas's injury was more serious than anyone realized. But I'm going to end up being right about the upside of their build being low. I was wrong that Ainge will eventually get fired over it, because they're going to win 50 games a year under Brad Stevens. But they'll never seriously contend for a championship with this construction. Also that Lakers pick doesn't look like it'll transfer. They need to get ahead of the situation and trade Horford and/or Hayward this summer. Kyrie Irving is going to get a DPVE and those two aren't good enough to occupy max deals given their payroll situation. You can probably get away with spending that kind of money on one of them, but not both. I also don't like that they didn't do anything at the deadline. Signing Greg Monroe helped, but it wasn't enough to offset their depth issues. They had a real chance to make a Finals run this year given how beatable Cleveland and the Wizards have looked. They were and still are too reliant on young players getting big minutes for the first time in their careers, and their lack of reliable depth is going to get them bounced from the second round if they play a healthy Wizards or Cavs team. An early exit isn't the end of the world, but a Finals run would have been a very valuable experience for their young players. It would have set expectations for them moving forward, and made everyone's job just that much more secure. Every Steve McQueen post: "What happened yesterday in sports is always going to happen forever going forward for the rest of our lives." I'm not crowing about the Celtics' success. I don't really care about the Celtics' success one way or other. I have decided that I am now a Rockets' fan right until the point I am not. (Seriously, I think my perspective on the NBA is the future of sports. I get to have a new favorite team every year. It's awesome). I'm crowing about you deciding that trading Isaiah for Kyrie was going to, like, turn them into a lottery team. Whether they ever win a title with this basic team or not, I want it written on your tombstone that you thought they should move forward with a backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Markelle Fultz. In conclusion, you realize that they are totally going to go to the Finals now, and I am going to repost this sixteen times when they do, right? 1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said: The Toronto Raptors have won 5 straight games with an average victory margin of 21 points. My God. Predicto is right. 39 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I think that stuff is incredibly overblown. You are rich. Every-freaking-where is nice when you are rich. And when you have to dedicate so much time to your craft, you're not partying 24/7 if you want to have a successful career. And for the times when you get a chance to kick it, you can literally go anywhere in the world you want to, first class. The media is ridiculous with that stuff. If location matters, it will have something to do with finances. I think in the NBA, "white and cold" still matters, though not as much as it used to in an era where the sixth man can rent a private plane and be in South Beach with 8 hours notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I'm not crowing about the Celtics' success. I don't really care about the Celtics' success one way or other. I have decided that I am now a Rockets' fan right until the point I am not. (Seriously, I think my perspective on the NBA is the future of sports. I get to have a new favorite team every year. It's awesome). It's called front running, and it's the sports fan equivalent of being the kid whose mom ironed a crease into his jeans. 17 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I think in the NBA, "white and cold" still matters, though not as much as it used to in an era where the sixth man can rent a private plane and be in South Beach with 8 hours notice. Doesn't that describe Boston? They've attracted more stars in recent years than LA's palm trees. I think I remember Kyrie listing whiter and colder Minnesota as a team he wanted to play for too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Destino said: They've attracted more stars in recent years than LA's palm trees. They have traded for more stars. But in today's NBA, people want to join other great players . I don't think weather matters as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Destino said: It's called front running, and it's the sports fan equivalent of being the kid whose mom ironed a crease into his jeans. Doesn't that describe Boston? They've attracted more stars in recent years than LA's palm trees. I think I remember Kyrie listing whiter and colder Minnesota as a team he wanted to play for too. Al Hortford was the first major free agent signing the Celtics had made since Dominique Wilkins - who no on remembers actually playing for the Celtics. Like I said, it doesn't matter as much as it used to certainly. The dollar figures involved help. The 21st century has probably dramatically changed black athlete's perspective on Boston which used to be "Here there be dragons" on the sports map. Still doesn't explain the Patriots' skill position players. 7 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: But in today's NBA, people want to join other great players . I don't think weather matters as much. NBA culture has changed dramatically. All these guys have known each other since they were 15. They've been texting or talking on social media on a regular basis for years. You know that dream you had in your backyard of you and your best friend playing for the Redskins in the Super Bowl? NBA players actually can make that dream come true. I've been to these AAU tournaments. There is an inordinate amount of sitting around, and you can spend hours over a weekend talking to someone. Figure out you're the #3 guard in the country and he's the #4 forward and suddenly, "Hey man....when we get to the Lig....." Edited February 12, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 39 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: My God. Predicto is right. Amazing how many times this particular revelation has come to participants of the Tailgate. I think we are up into the high six figures now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Just now, Predicto said: Amazing how many times this particular revelation has come to participants of the Tailgate. I think we are up into the high six figures now. I don't want to live in this universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I don't want to live in this universe. Don't worry. You still have McQueen's Hot Takes to clown on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: But in today's NBA, people want to join other great players . I don't think weather matters as much. 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Al Hortford was the first major free agent signing the Celtics had made since Dominique Wilkins - who no on remembers actually playing for the Celtics. There aren't a lot of major free agent signings in the NBA to begin with, so I think you have to count players traded there that then choose to stay. 1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Still doesn't explain the Patriots' skill position players. They're cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Destino said: There aren't a lot of major free agent signings in the NBA to begin with, so I think you have to count players traded there that then choose to stay. Again, it's gotten better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: My God. Predicto is right. You make fun of me for recency bias and then post this? How many Toronto games have you and/or Predicto seen over the past four years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said: You make fun of me for recency bias and then post this? How many Toronto games have you and/or Predicto seen over the past four years? All of them. I love the Raptors. I actually think that February and the first half of March is the absolute worst time of the season to figure out what the hell is going to happen in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I actually think that February and the first half of March is the absolute worst time of the season to figure out what the hell is going to happen in the playoffs. On that we agree. Throw January, November, and December in there too. It's a second season and a different game. The playoffs get decided, by and large, in July. Cleveland vs Golden State 2018 was decided in July 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Whether they ever win a title with this basic team or not, I want it written on your tombstone that you thought they should move forward with a backcourt of Isaiah Thomas and Markelle Fultz. I wanted them to rebuild around Fultz and the Brooklyn pick and use Bradley/Crowder/Horford as the role players to prop them up enough to never have to go into the lottery. Isaiah Thomas was obviously going to have to be moved at some point. Fultz was supposed to be their future at the PG position with the other foundation player coming from the Brooklyn pick. I didn't see the Fultz injury coming. I don't understand what has happened to him at all, and I'm not sure anyone does. I assume Philly is trying to shelve him for his rookie season like they did with Noel, Embiid, and Simmons so that he doesn't have to ever play hurt as a rookie. All I know is that the kid was a Gilbert Arenas clone at Washington and I'm not going to write him off yet. If he lives up to his potential, then he's going to be helping Philly do what I wanted to see Boston to do--power a contender 5 years down the road, outside of the Golden State championship window. But let's say Fultz is a bust and trading down for Tatum was absolutely the right move. Imagine if they rebuilt around him + the Brooklyn pick + the pick they acquired in the trade down. That would have been a better rebuild. Now imagine if that Brooklyn pick ends up being Doncic or Ayton? And even if it's not a top two pick, this is a very top heavy class. Aside from those two can't-miss future superstars there are four to five other special prospects with All Star upside. Boston would have almost certainly gotten one of these guys if they had kept the pick. I'll change my tune about this Celtics build if the Lakers pick transfers, but it really looks like they're going to have to beat the odds to jump to two or three. It's much more likely that it'll be the Sacramento pick in 2019. That's a valuable asset, but it's value makes a lot more sense if you're building a Philly-like big three around draft picks who are about the same age. They're stuck competing for second place in this Golden State era with everyone else, and then when Tatum hits his prime and Hayward and Irving are old they'll be stuck behind teams like Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Kyrie Irving is 25. He's two years older than Embiid. I will never understand why you are treating him like Old Man River with this weird obsession on championship windows. Who is the reporter that said Irving will be better his first day in the league than Wall would ever be? I feel like we need to have a gofundme so you can fly to that guy's city and smack him and move on with your life. You're going to be 50 and someone is going to ask you why you never married and the answer is going to be "Kyrie was never better than Wall." Edited February 12, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I wanted them to rebuild around Fultz and the Brooklyn pick and use Bradley/Crowder/Horford as the role players to prop them up enough to never have to go into the lottery. Isaiah Thomas was obviously going to have to be moved at some point. Fultz was supposed to be their future at the PG position with the other foundation player coming from the Brooklyn pick. I didn't see the Fultz injury coming. I don't understand what has happened to him at all, and I'm not sure anyone does. I assume Philly is trying to shelve him for his rookie season like they did with Noel, Embiid, and Simmons so that he doesn't have to ever play hurt as a rookie. All I know is that the kid was a Gilbert Arenas clone at Washington and I'm not going to write him off yet. If he lives up to his potential, then he's going to be helping Philly do what I wanted to see Boston to do--power a contender 5 years down the road, outside of the Golden State championship window. But let's say Fultz is a bust and trading down for Tatum was absolutely the right move. Imagine if they rebuilt around him + the Brooklyn pick + the pick they acquired in the trade down. That would have been a better rebuild. Now imagine if that Brooklyn pick ends up being Doncic or Ayton? And even if it's not a top two pick, this is a very top heavy class. Aside from those two can't-miss future superstars there are four to five other special prospects with All Star upside. Boston would have almost certainly gotten one of these guys if they had kept the pick. I'll change my tune about this Celtics build if the Lakers pick transfers, but it really looks like they're going to have to beat the odds to jump to two or three. It's much more likely that it'll be the Sacramento pick in 2019. That's a valuable asset, but it's value makes a lot more sense if you're building a Philly-like big three around draft picks who are about the same age. They're stuck competing for second place in this Golden State era with everyone else, and then when Tatum hits his prime and Hayward and Irving are old they'll be stuck behind teams like Philly. I agree 5 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: Kyrie Irving is 25. He's two years older than Embiid. I will never understand why you are treating him like Old Man River with this weird obsession on championship windows. Who is the reporter that said Irving will be better his first day in the league than Wall would ever be? I feel like we need to have a gofundme so you can fly to that guy's city and smack him and move on with your life. You're going to be 50 and someone is going to ask you why you never married and the answer is going to be "Kyrie was never better than Wall." Dammit, you beat me ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: I will never understand why you are treating him like Old Man River with this weird obsession on championship windows. Because you have to build with concomitance to get the stars to align to have hope of contending for championships over an extended period of time. - LeBron, Wade, and Bosh all came into the NBA the same year. - Durant came into the NBA in 2007, Westbrook in 2008, Harden in 2009. Obviously they got broken up and got wrecked by the injury bug, but this was a future juggernaut - Duncan (97), Manu ('99), Parker ('01). - Durant ('07), Curry ('09), Thompson ('11), Green ('12). - Embiid ('14), Simmons ('16), Fultz ('17). - Irving ('11), Tatum ('17), Hayward ('10), Horford ('07). That is all over the place. Age is important. Kyrie Irving is about to enter his prime. If his sidekick is supposed to be Tatum, then Tatum is like five years away from being able to handle that role. If it's Hayward/Horford, then that is not enough blue chip talent to put them over the hump against Golden State or whatever team LeBron plays for. They are straddling two different windows with this construction. It's also about having the free agency cycles of your foundation players line up such that you're never hamstrung. Kyrie Irving is two years away from DPVE money kicking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) James ('03), Irving ('11), Love ('08) Leonard ('11), Ducan ('97), I dunno....(Diaw '03) Dirk ('98), Chandler ('01), Kidd ('94)....that window works according to your voodoo but it opened in 2011. Seriously, what the hell are you even talking about? Edited February 12, 2018 by Lombardi's_kid_brother 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Kareem '69, Magic' 79, Worthy '83....it never fails..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I love ya steve but you're getting dominated right now. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 Boston has a ton of good young players, draft well, have a great coach, and are among the best teams in a league despite being without one allstar. I'm not sure how anyone can look at that team and think they're in a bad position. If Hayward hadn't been injured I think they'd be favorites to come out of the east right now (which means little in February, but the point remains). A second 20+ppg player that can create his own shot is a significant upgrade, no matter how you feel about Gordon and his over hyped haircut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: You make fun of me for recency bias and then post this? How many Toronto games have you and/or Predicto seen over the past four years? I'm mostly going on what I have seen this year (three or four games). I don't think that Steve Novak and Tyler Hansborough are particularly relevant to evaluating their chances today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I actually think the Celtics are a year away. I'm assuming that Hayward comes back and is a reasonable version of himself by the second half of next year. I also think Tatum is starting to hit the rookie wall. Rookies are typically dead on their feet come playoff time. So, they should significantly upgrade at two positions next year simply by doing nothing. And Ainge rarely does nothing. If you are in the East, the goal is to win the East. If the Warriors win the next 5 titles, so be it. In the NFL, the Steelers have been 1-78 against the Patriots since Brady showed up. Still, they have two titles and a Super Bowl loss during that era. Basically, they filled their trophy case by letting someone else beat the team they can't beat. McQueen's suggestion is really that every team aside from the Warriors should tank. I don't think that would be much fun. And it's also rather pointless since even if 20 teams tank, a few of those are going to end up the playoffs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said: James ('03), Irving ('11), Love ('08) Leonard ('11), Ducan ('97), I dunno....(Diaw '03) Dirk ('98), Chandler ('01), Kidd ('94)....that window works according to your voodoo but it opened in 2011. Seriously, what the hell are you even talking about? The only reason Cleveland was able to build that team was because LeBron was born in Ohio and had a yearning to redeem himself in Cleveland. Everyone else except the Lakers has to build their multi-year contender through acquiring a generation of stars and having them spend their prime years together. Even so, the rest of the foundation came from getting a cluster of high draft picks from 2011-2014. They spent them poorly because their FO was horrible. They made reaches that were obvious at the time. But a good front office would probably have picked Kyrie, Lillard, Porter, and Embiid and that team would be amazing. As for the showtime Lakers, Magic and Worthy came into the league near each other and shared their prime years and Kareem had an extraordinarily long prime. Nobody else can team build today expecting that kind of longevity. I also notice that you didn't bring up how the 80's Celtics were built. The 90's Mavs did build a young big three through the draft. Jim Jackson was drafted in '92, Mashburn in '93, and Kidd in '94. They would have been special if they'd been able to keep it together but injuries and Toni Braxton broke them up. There are no guarantees that building your team this way will work out, but getting a foundation of two (or preferably three) stars whose career windows are the same is your best shot at multi-year contention when those guys hit their prime. The reason why Dallas's window was so sporadic and came so late was because they never were able to keep a worthy second star for Dirk. Nash was a '96 draft pick, if he'd spent his career with Dirk things would have been a lot better for both of him. Or if they'd kept Jason Kidd, he could have helped Dirk contend for multiple rings. Right now the Spurs are stuck without the ability to realistically contend because they don't have a second or third great player in Kawhi Leonard's career window. They got their ring with him at the end of their previous Big 3 era and don't have a realistic path back to the Finals any time soon without a landscape altering free agency acquisition. 10 minutes ago, Predicto said: I'm mostly going on what I have seen this year (three or four games). I don't think that Steve Novak and Tyler Hansborough are particularly relevant to evaluating their chances today. They weren't in 2015 either. The Raptors' best players are still Kyle Lowry and DeMar DeRozan. They're still waiting for the lightbulb to turn on with Valanciunas. Do you really think Serge Ibaka and CJ Miles dramatically change their upside? Edited February 12, 2018 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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