Seat Upgrade - Advice needed

[newticketholder]

Hello, al,

I currently hold 2 seats on the 50 Yard line. But these seats are at the top of the stadium. My perfect seat would be within the first 8 rows of my section. I like being up high. The redskins just called me with a Upgrade offer. They want me to commit to 2 years of the club level. If so I can move down to the Lover level after the 2 years. My sole purpose to agreeing to purchase would be base on how they can resell. I live in Delaware, Have an autistic child and just can't get down to every game.. If I do decide to upgrade I will be in the end zone/goal line area

Questions

• Is the lower level that great? How are the tickets reselling at this price level

• Is the Club level that great? How are the tickets reselling at this price level.

Any advice you can give me would be great

[chipwhich]

Personal preference. I hate the upper deck, some people love it. I will only go to games if I can sit in the lowers. But I know some who cherish being upstairs.

From a reselling standpoint, hands down the lowers are easier to move.

[RFKFedEx]

My sole purpose to agreeing to purchase would be base on how they can resell. I live in Delaware. Any advice you can give me would be great

Since you asked, don't purchase season tickets thinking you can recover cost on the games you can't attend, especially with club seats where you'll have a multi year obligation.

You'll pay a lot more for every game with club STs than you would by simply purchasing the individual games you wish to attend. If you live out of state and you know you'll miss a few games like preseason, why pay for something you can't use? The team encourages STHs to resell their unwanted tix, you should take advantage.

[skins2323]

Personal preference. I hate the upper deck, some people love it. I will only go to games if I can sit in the lowers. But I know some who cherish being upstairs.

From a reselling standpoint, hands down the lowers are easier to move.

Im that guyt who is on the oppositte side of the fence. I LOVE the uppers and have been asked multiple times to move down. I keep saying no. My perfect seat is the 1st 3 rows and on the 50 yln...im moving that way but still in row 6, 35 ydln. Im hoping to get a good upgrade this year.

[ballin86]

you won't be able to break even on club levels...you will profit on lowers.

[newticketholder]

I would imagine that Club level is where everyone wants to be. Because all it has to offer. At least thats the way they make it sound. I don't know.... That's why I'm asking. Anyone with exp. in Club level

[RFKFedEx]

you will profit on lowers.

I wouldn't count on that considering the price increase this year.

[LCA77]

You won't come close to making your money back on club seats - 0% chance. Don't even consider that as an option unless you can take a huge loss for the next 2 years. Club seats are all over Stub Hub, Craigslist and Ebay for way less than face value.

[Mania]

Im that guyt who is on the oppositte side of the fence. I LOVE the uppers and have been asked multiple times to move down. I keep saying no. My perfect seat is the 1st 3 rows and on the 50 yln...im moving that way but still in row 6, 35 ydln. Im hoping to get a good upgrade this year.

I'm in row 5 of the uppper level section 451 and I love my section and the people around me. From 2004 to 2009 I was moving down and across sections. Currently I don't want to move.

[skinfan2k]

Higher Ticket prices and the availability to buy tickets at the last minute= no reason to buy season tickets.

[SonnyandSam]

I sat upstairs for ten years and have now been in the lower level for three years. Night and day. MUCH prefer the lower level. Closer to the action. Feel more a part of the crowd and enthusiasm. Faster exit to your car which means faster getaway home. No more long walks going up. It is just a huge difference between even my five years in row 5 and now sitting in the corner end zone lower level.

I agree with those who say do not buy club seats unless you are willing to take a substantial loss. You simply will not get your money back. Club seats have a lot of perks. Nice site lines, wider seats, some padded seats, shorter bathroom lines, cleaner bathrooms, protection from the weather if you need it, relaxing inside temperature controlled area to enjoy pre game and post game activities, better food, quieter fans in general (yes, I know, there are exceptions), and you can order food and drink from your seat and have it brought to you. So yes, lots of perks, but quite expensive.

Please be aware that IF you choose club seats, everything is negotiable including the price and the future location of your lower level seats. I would insist on sideline seats not end zone seats and force them to offer a lower contract. But don't expect to get much of that money back selling your tickets. There is a reason why they are offering you what appears to be a great deal. Because they cannot sell the clubs at regular prices. Divisional games, maybe you'll make some money. But not likely anything outside the division will net you break even or a profit. Get any promises in writing. Ticket agents disappear. Some fans have reported good success negotiating a better deal than what is first offered. Skins are desperate to sell club level seats. They are NOT sold out. Only GA seats are "technically" sold out and many question how accurate that claim is.

Good luck.

[josh35b]

I wouldn't count on that considering the price increase this year.

I agree. I don't even think you could profit on lower levels in previous years unless you had lowers between the 20's.

[Ramsey11]

I also live in Delaware, and gave up my season tickets (section 453) after 7 years. The long commute, the elimination of the cash lots and the ticket office's refusal to sell me a parking pass, and the inability to resell tickets to the games I couldn't attend got to make the whole experience so not worthwhile. Most of those seasons I had little trouble reselling tickets but the final season the after market for tickets had completely bottomed out. I would imagine that reselling club seats at those prices would be tricky given the number of cheaper upper level seats available on eBay and Stubhub.

Look at it this way, for the ticket office to be offering such an incentive tells me that even they are having a hard time selling club seats.

I took another person's advice and put the money that I would have invested into one season's tickets and bought a 55" flat screen TV and watch as many games as I can from home. Haven't missed the trips to the stadium since.

[RFKFedEx]

I agree. I don't even think you could profit on lower levels in previous years unless you had lowers between the 20's.

Generally speaking, this was true. That's why I didn't believe the market could bare an increase this year. Silly me.

When STHs boast of resale profits, usually they aren't including the cost of the hit they took on mandatory preseason games. I call it the ole 20% tax. Most people don't understand the concept of reassigning cost to value for the regular season, or they choose to ignore it when purchasing from a fellow STH.

[Redskins Ruckus]

I own Dreamseats only because I am right next to the tunnel on the field. I think there were only two games this past season where I could have broke even: the Dallas game in week 17, and the wild-card playoff. If my seats were not so fun and awesome, I would not be a season ticket holder.

[jfriedenthal]

Personal preference. I hate the upper deck, some people love it. I will only go to games if I can sit in the lowers. But I know some who cherish being upstairs.

I'm the exact opposite. I used to have LL endzone seats. I now have upper level 50 yd line (first 8 rows as you describe) and wouldn't trade these seats for anything.

[Moorecards]

Personal preference. I hate the upper deck, some people love it. I will only go to games if I can sit in the lowers. But I know some who cherish being upstairs.

From a reselling standpoint, hands down the lowers are easier to move.

I am also the opposite .. I have upper deck, row 1, 1st 2 aisle seats, Redskins 20 yard line. Wouldn't trade them at all .. at the end of the small tunnel where I enter, bathroom to the right, concessions to the left.

And the glass don't interfere with my site lines at all ...

[jasjhughes]

I would imagine that Club level is where everyone wants to be. Because all it has to offer. At least thats the way they make it sound. I don't know.... That's why I'm asking. Anyone with exp. in Club level

Exact opposite. You won't be able to sell your club tickets anwhere near face value except for Dallas.

[asacks]

for what it's worth, i'm in 427 (40-50 yrd line) row 3 and have no interest in moving to lower endzones. That being said, if I could get lower level between the 20s, in particular the first few rows of 200s, i would pay for it, but given how slow people suggest moving out of the endzone to the 20s is, I've never been willing to take the leap downstairs. The atmosphere and walk may be better, but I think to actually see the game it's significantly better near the 50 even if you're upstairs (that said, being way up, above row 15 and definitely above row 20, where I started, is very far away, every few rows really helps so your goal should certainly be getting down as low in the 400s as possible). To each his own though, I know some people love those endzone seats, and we love them for making noise when the opposing offense is backed up!!

[FedEx Nosebleed]

I would imagine that Club level is where everyone wants to be. Because all it has to offer. At least thats the way they make it sound. I don't know.... That's why I'm asking. Anyone with exp. in Club level

Don't do it. Not without a specific WRITTEN promise from the team about where your new seats will be, and/or a 40-50% discount on the 'face' value of the club seats.

We did two years in the club, but wouldn't do it again given the price of what you get. Our story is that we had 2 ST seats in row 15 of the UD, at about the 10 yard line. That meant the row behind us was less money and the section next to us was less money -- not a good spot in the upper deck. We were offered club seats for three years in exchange for lower endzone seats. What we really wanted were UD seats at the 50. After negotiating, two years in the club got us a promise of 4 seats in the UD at the 50. It took two seasons and several calls after we left the club to get them, but we got them.

We never were able to sell our club seats for more than 50% of what we paid. I believe it is because the team undercuts club prices by selling single game club seats on Stubhub for less than they sell to ST holders, driving down the market. Also, going into to the club to get lower endzone isn't necessary anymore based on recent reports. I'd wait until the upgrade period in May to see if you can get lowers before saying yes to any club deal. Finally, if you do a deal on the club be sure to get in writing what color parking you'll have when you come out. I didn't and had to fight hard (including a call to then-team General Counsel Dave Donovan) to get any parking after my club term was over.

[RFKFedEx]

I believe it is because the team undercuts club prices by selling single game club seats on Stubhub for less than they sell to ST holders, driving down the market.

Your belief is correct, and its not just the club seats. The TO employs this practice with their unassigned seating throughout the entire stadium, for every game, and they've done so for many years now. Its more noticeable with club seats because premium seating costs for the STH are significantly higher than GAs. On the flip side, Stubhub was littered with $300 uppers for the Dallas game last year. Single game prices reflect true market demand far better than what STHs pay the team.

:secret: This practice is employed nearly everywhere nowadays, not just here. i.e. pro sports teams, college, concert and theater promoters, etc. they all quietly sell on the secondary market. The general public hasn't caught on, most people don't care.

PSL holders in other NFL towns really get screwed, but single game buyers reap the benefits, see Dallas Cowboys.

[Mista T]

PSL holders in other NFL towns really get screwed' date=' but single game buyers reap the benefits, see Dallas Cowboys.[/quote']

:confused:

Just the opposite in Baltimore. We bought a dozen PSLs in 1998 for $1,000 each, avoiding scalpers' mark-ups totalling 10's of thousands since then. We never re-sell because we enjoy all the games, but know others whose re-sales have covered their PSL investments several times over. Some PSL owners sell their own seats to a couple of prime games e.g. Pittsburgh & New England, greatly subsidizing their entire season ticket costs.

Perhaps Dallas Cowboys PSL prices are out-of-line, and/or not enough local demand?

[RFKFedEx]

:confused:

Just the opposite in Baltimore. We bought a dozen PSLs in 1998 for $1,000 each, avoiding scalpers' mark-ups totalling 10's of thousands since then. We never re-sell because we enjoy all the games, but know others whose re-sales have covered their PSL investments several times over. Some PSL owners sell their own seats to a couple of prime games e.g. Pittsburgh & New England, greatly subsidizing their entire season ticket costs.

Perhaps Dallas Cowboys PSL prices are out-of-line, and/or not enough local demand?

Proportionately, the Cowboys and Jets PSLs were priced way above the Ravens, given the 11 years difference, inflation, etc.

What happens in places like Dallas and even NYG, is single game buyers like me can buy most games on Stubhub for less than what the STH is paying per game for comparable seats. I can buy a ticket for $150 total (including fees), and sit right next to a STH whose paying $250 per seat. The STH next to me also has to pay for his PSL and preseason expenses.

Most Ravens and Steelers fans have done well with their PSL investments bc they've enjoyed a lot of winning, they have smaller stadiums, and their PSLs were priced during the Clinton administration. Cowboy and Jets PSL holders have no such benefits. The Niners STHs will have the same problem next year in Santa Clara.