The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[daveakl]

I'm still partial to D.C.F.C.

keep the logo, colors, song, pageantry.

[Commander PK]

I think the difference is that Snyder has taken the Hardline position and people don't like Snyder as it is.

 

I would venture to say if you had the ability to read minds, that is what most of the faux outrage about the name is really about from white America.  They don't like Dan Snyder, and having to change the name would hurt Dan Snyder.  A great percentage of them anyway.  

 

To a lot of them, they are not fans of the team.  What we need to have happen is for fans of other teams to imagine that they were under the same heat we are right now, and how they would feel if the team they have grown up rooting for was suddenly branded as "racist" and had to change their name.  

 

When I became a fan, I became a fan mostly because I was born and raised in this area, but I also looked at our Native logo and was fascinated and intrigued by that person.  I wanted to learn more about Natives.  I never looked at the logo in a negative or racist light...only positive thoughts.  

 

The bottom line is a name change will not bring about anything good for Natives, it's only going to make people angry and bitter.  

[PleaseBlitz]

I think the difference is that Snyder has taken the Hardline position and people don't like Snyder as it is.

 

 

This is the main reason I've been for a name change.  Snyder doesn't want to do it, therefore, I want it to happen.

 

 

For the record, I think they should make the team red, white, and blue just like the Caps, Nats, and Wiz.  

[daveakl]

This is the main reason I've been for a name change. Snyder doesn't want to do it, therefore, I want it to happen.

For the record, I think they should make the team red, white, and blue just like the Caps, Nats, and Wiz.

And the Giants

[PleaseBlitz]

I would venture to say if you had the ability to read minds, that is what most of the faux outrage about the name is really about from white America.  They don't like Dan Snyder, and having to change the name would hurt Dan Snyder.  A great percentage of them anyway.  

 

To a lot of them, they are not fans of the team.  What we need to have happen is for fans of other teams to imagine that they were under the same heat we are right now, and how they would feel if the team they have grown up rooting for was suddenly branded as "racist" and had to change their name.  

 

When I became a fan, I became a fan mostly because I was born and raised in this area, but I also looked at our Native logo and was fascinated and intrigued by that person.  I wanted to learn more about Natives.  I never looked at the logo in a negative or racist light...only positive thoughts.  

 

The bottom line is a name change will not bring about anything good for Natives, it's only going to make people angry and bitter.  

 

 

It funny, I agree with everything you said, but then I come to a different conclusion.  As I just posted, I absolutely am in favor of Dan Snyder being hurt in any way possible.  I love the Skins, I ****ing hate Dan Snyder.  He is a terrible owner, a terrible person, and he's ruined a once-proud franchise that I love.  

 

Additionally, like you, I've never associated the name Redskins in any way with any negative feelings towards or about native americans.  However, I recognize that all of my thoughts towards the franchise are positive, and people outside the fanbase probably have a very different perspective, to which they are totally entitled. 

 

You are totally correct in saying changing the name will have zero positive impact on anything.  What i dont agree with is that people should be bitter and angry.  What about this franchise HASNT changed?  I'm not bitter when players change, coaches change, owners change (well, until later), jersey's change, stadiums change, training camp location change, quarterbacks change (and change, and change).  The name is just a symbol of all those things, all of which have already changed.  I was born in DC and have lived here all my life.  The one constant is that the team resides in my city.  As long as that is true, anything, including the name, can change and I wont be bitter or angry.  

And the Giants

 

 

Well, the NY teams seem to be mostly blue (Knicks and Rangers too), DC seems to be red with blue.

[grego]

Good to hear Sheehan going off on the opposition.

Pointing out that they don't have their own polling data because they know it doesn't help them.

Id like to see more fact based fire like this from our local media.

Also loved hearing him point out how the other side treats this as a non dabatable issue and how condescending they are.

Lots if truth there.

[codeorama]

This is the main reason I've been for a name change. Snyder doesn't want to do it, therefore, I want it to happen.

.

Sadly, same here.

Also loved hearing him point out how the other side treats this as a non dabatable issue and how condescending they are.

This goes BOTH ways

[Hazel-Ra]

I'm just showing that .9% of the US population is NA's.  That's whom the word "would" be offensive.

Also, the Blackfeet are the predominant tribe in Montana where I had my experiences;

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/10/blackfeet-elder-says-rick-reilly-misquoted-him-wants-redskins-banned-151696

 

 

And yet he's perfectly fine with "Blackfoot"  I mean it's a color and a body part combined...

[Commander PK]

I really don't get the "I hate Snyder, so I want him to be forced to change the name" crowd at all.  

 

Through all of Snyder's missteps and through all the bad seasons...the one thing we could always hang our hat on with Snyder was that he was a fan of the team just like us.  

 

This is one of those times where we all should be standing with him, instead we are getting some of our fans wanting to change the team's name just because it will hurt Snyder psychologically and in his pocket.  

 

Have any of you stopped to think about how ridiculous that is?

[PleaseBlitz]

I really don't get the "I hate Snyder, so I want him to be forced to change the name" crowd at all.  

 

Through all of Snyder's missteps and through all the bad seasons...the one thing we could always hang our hat on with Snyder was that he was a fan of the team just like us.  

 

This is one of those times where we all should be standing with him, instead we are getting some of our fans wanting to change the team's name just because it will hurt Snyder psychologically and in his pocket.  

 

Have any of you stopped to think about how ridiculous that is?

 

 

It's not ridiculous at all.  I don't understand why people defend Snyder for any reason.  He is a ****ing terrible owner.  Even if he's a fan, it makes it even worse that he won't step aside and let the team be run like a professional team, rather than his plaything.  The team is without a doubt one of the worst teams in football during his tenure.  Only three playoff appearances in 14 years.  Three.  From a franchise that won Superbowls regularly just prior to him buying the team.  The fan experience at games is miserable.  He's done everything he can think of to wring money out of his fanbase.  Aside from that, he is a world class asshole.  He is THE WORST THING that has ever happened to this franchise, show's no signs of un****ing himself, and is in no way "a fan just like us."

 

Not to mention, this whole argument that he stands to lose a bunch of money if they change the name is nonsense.  

[codeorama]

Painkiller, just speaking for myself, I don't really truly want the name to change, I really don't care, BUT: 

-as I've said, I do believe the name is a slur (or is used as a slur in some cases to be more accurate) and probably isn't appropriate. 

- But, I hate Snyder, worst owner ever IMO and because of his arrogance, I do think it would be funny for him to be the guy that had to change the name, since he's stated he never will.

 

That's just me though.

[Commander PK]

Not to mention, this whole argument that he stands to lose a bunch of money if they change the name is nonsense.  

 

Yes, but don't you want the team to still be called the Washington Redskins after Snyder is gone?  Like you said, the people come and go.  The Washington Redskins remain.  He is simply one link in a very large chain.

[@DCGoldPants]

Good to hear Sheehan going off on the opposition.

Pointing out that they don't have their own polling data because they know it doesn't help them.

Id like to see more fact based fire like this from our local media.

Also loved hearing him point out how the other side treats this as a non dabatable issue and how condescending they are.

Lots if truth there.

 

9 out of 10 times I agree with Kevin opposed to Thom (Who is a total fake act). But he's not right here. Polls don't matter anymore. They have no idea how to handle marketing and PR situations. This is what I do for a living. I'm VERY small time. But when I see the stuff they post and tweet I think "Who the hell is writing this stuff?". 

 

If they want to get into a fight over it. Then fund new black money non-profits Tea Party style that go after the state of Oklahoma. Call out that Casino Owner who is funding this attack and ask why "Red People" is ok but "Redskins" is not.

 

This stinks of desperation. If Vinny was still here, we'd think he was behind it. That's how bad this is.

[PleaseBlitz]

Yes, but don't you want the team to still be called the Washington Redskins after Snyder is gone?  Like you said, the people come and go.  The Washington Redskins remain.  He is simply one link in a very large chain.

 

I honestly want the name to change.  I don't think it is used as a slur, but I also don't want the focus to be the name all the time.  I would prefer to have that distraction removed.  The constant, for me, as I stated above is the "Washington" before the team name.  

[Commander PK]

I honestly want the name to change.  I don't think it is used as a slur, but I also don't want the focus to be the name all the time.  I would prefer to have that distraction removed.  The constant, for me, as I stated above is the "Washington" before the team name.  

 

Fair enough

[PleaseBlitz]

Fair enough

 

But seriously though.  Danny Snyder can go to hell.  

[grego]

Sadly, same here.

This goes BOTH ways

While there are a few people against the name change for stubborn, silly reasons, I would argue the coverage (which has been virtually 100% pro name change, in case no one noticed) has been very condescending in tone.

It's always presented as "it's a slur, case closed, and you're basically a racist if you disagree. Oh, and dan Snyder sucks and GPM was a racist, So we win"

The stance that this isn't a debate taken by the pro name changers is very arrogant and closed minded.

Yes, Snyders been a jerk, but those against a name change are the ones asking for actual native Americans opinion on the issue.

That's hardly condescending.

[Commander PK]

It's always presented as "it's a slur, case closed, and you're basically a racist if you disagree. Oh, and dan Snyder sucks and GPM was a racist, I we win".

 

essentially yes, and that kind of tone is why I think for many it really has nothing to do with the name itself.  Just a bunch of people trolling the fan base.

[@DCGoldPants]

I honestly want the name to change.  I don't think it is used as a slur, but I also don't want the focus to be the name all the time.  I would prefer to have that distraction removed.  The constant, for me, as I stated above is the "Washington" before the team name.  

 

I almost totally agree with you. I personally don't want a name change. But have grown much more accepting of what will happen. "WASHINGTON" is what binds the franchise and the fanbase together. 

 

They don't want the opportunity...but they will be presented with it. Can they be unique and have no nickname? No mascot? That would be the message of "Either we're the Redskins officially or unofficially, but we aren't anything else."

[codeorama]

Grego and Painkiller, I totally see where you guys are coming from but on the flipside, I also see the other side saying "no way its a slur", "no chance", "youre an idiot for thinking that".

 

I just think that both sides have their points.  Unfortunately, we live in a PC society, which DOES suck at times.  

[Spearfeather]

Painkiller, just speaking for myself, I don't really truly want the name to change, I really don't care, BUT: 

-as I've said, I do believe the name is a slur (or is used as a slur in some cases to be more accurate) and probably isn't appropriate. 

- But, I hate Snyder, worst owner ever IMO and because of his arrogance, I do think it would be funny for him to be the guy that had to change the name, since he's stated he never will.

 

That's just me though.

 

 

Grego and Painkiller, I totally see where you guys are coming from but on the flipside, I also see the other side saying "no way its a slur", "no chance", "youre an idiot for thinking that".

 

I just think that both sides have their points.  Unfortunately, we live in a PC society, which DOES suck at times.  

 

I don't believe the teams name has ever been a slur. The word was used at times as a slur, and if the name was ever changed, the word would continue to be used as a slur, possibly more often, and with more power.

[PleaseBlitz]

I don't believe the teams name has ever been a slur. The word was used at times as a slur, and if the name was ever changed, the word would continue to be used as a slur, possibly more often, and with more power.

 

Explain.

[elkabong82]

I'm done thinking of alternate names. Not going to support a cave-in of this issue because of a vocal, misinformed minority of people.

 

It would disenfranchise many NAs who root for the team and it would change our history. Every time the team is looked on in the past it will be tainted just like Marshall's legacy. Marshall was huge for the NFL, one of the most influential and important figures to the sport yet all he's known for today is racism since the team was last to integrate and he became the scapegoat. Similar treatment will befall the Redskins, where the old team's legacy, especially the 80s, is erased and just remembered as a bad team with a racist name. 

 

Some of you saying change the name to put an end to all this don't seem to realize that it won't actually put an end to all this. Media loves to hate on the team, the name change would just give them another punchline to constantly drudge up. 

 

The NAs who like the name aren't given much of a voice at all by the biased media. We fans are the only major group with a vested interest in keeping the name. Others may support us but ultimately don't truly care. If we give up then we've lost. So no more name change suggestions from me and I urge the rest of you to do the same. Don't even consider it. The majority of NAs are on our side. There's no valid reason to even consider a name change. HTTR.

[codeorama]

I don't believe the teams name has ever been a slur. The word was used at times as a slur, and if the name was ever changed, the word would continue to be used as a slur, possibly more often, and with more power.

If you mean that the teams name wasn't intended as a slur, then I agree.

To say the word redskin isn't a slur is just wrong. I've put my personal experiences on here. I posted a link from ESPN's Rick Reilly's NA Father in law. I'm sure it's been used in positive ways as well, but to deny the negative use is just not right.

[elkabong82]

If you mean that the teams name wasn't intended as a slur, then I agree.

To say the word redskin isn't a slur is just wrong. I've put my personal experiences on here. I posted a link from ESPN's Rick Reilly's NA Father in law. I'm sure it's been used in positive ways as well, but to deny the negative use is just not right.

 

You misread his post. He said team name was never a slur, but the word itself was at times used as a slur. 

 

What's not right is that the voices of the majority of NAs not against the name are being ignored by the media. The media would actually have to travel to reservations and talk to people rather than just getting soundbytes from organizations over the phone. Maybe then they'd see the deplorable conditions and have something real to write about. I think that is the saddest thing in all this, that for all the media focus on this you almost never see any mention of any other issues that NAs are facing. Wasted opportunity in favor of a BS agenda.

 

Why is that? Because most of them don't care about NAs, they care about their PC agenda and NAs just so happen to be involved in it right now. Hard to think of any other reason why the name change is all that they talk about and don't do anything to raise awareness about other, more serious issues with NAs despite having the opportunity to do so.