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Regarding QB talent, can the 2012 NFL Draft eclipse THE best ever NFL QB Draft of 1983?

deejaydana

By deejaydana
in The Tailgate

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deejaydana

deejaydana

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I only saw a 5 year old thread that was somewhat similar by Bubba so gonna let this one rip.

The 1983 Draft has been the gold standard for QB talent but I'm wondering, could 2012 end up eclipsing that incredible class of talent? To refresh the young pups in the E.S. crowd, that '83 class had 3 future HOF'ers in John Elway, Jim Kelly and of course Dan Marino. (Amazingly Marino went 2nd to last in the first round.) We're already seeing some really solid and even spectacular games from RG3, Luck and Russell Wilson and some really solid games from Tannehill. I know, Russell didn't go first round (he went 3rd round) but he's looking like a helluva deal for the Seahawks & there are assuredly teams already kicking themselves for passing on him. So, can this class surpass what was just an incredibly productive QB Draft way back in 1983? Maybe not a question that can be rightfully answered now but since these threads are subjective it's just something to debate for fun. On a related note, the Skins drafted Darrell Green with the final selection that year AND then we landed Charles Mann in the third round. Not too shabby indeed. What say you fellow Skins fans?

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China

China

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I just noticed Richard Dent went in the 8th round? Wow. That one panned out just a bit for the Bears.

The whole 1983 draft was good for the Bears, it included seven starters on the Bears' 1985 Super Bowl team, including three-fifths of the offensive line.

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MattFancy

MattFancy

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Way too early to tell, the 2012 class is off to a good start so far, but it's going to take at least a decade to know the answer. I mean the 83 class won multiple Super Bowls and had some of the all-time greats in the class. A group that is close could be the 2004 class with Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberger.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

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The whole 1983 draft was good for the Bears, it included seven starters on the Bears' 1985 Super Bowl team, including three-fifths of the offensive line.

Can an old head explain to me why the highly vaunted '85 Bears team only won a single Super Bowl? Always hear about them being one of the best teams ever and never understood that.

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deejaydana

deejaydana

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Can an old head explain to me why the highly vaunted '85 Bears team only won a single Super Bowl? Always hear about them being one of the best teams ever and never understood that.

McMahon ended up being a brittle QB for one. That and Buddy Ryan and Ditka mixed like oil and water. Ryan departed for his own coaching gig shortly thereafter. Walter Payton was really at the end of his playing days too.

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aREDSKIN

aREDSKIN

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We'll see in 10-15 years but one thing is almost for sure...the 2013 NFL QB Draft class blows. At least in comparison to this year's class it will. Poor Jax and KC.

On the morning sports talk radio this morning they were actually talking about how they ( the Jags) could get Kirk Cousins from washington. LOL I loved it.

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Bonez3

Bonez3

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Can an old head explain to me why the highly vaunted '85 Bears team only won a single Super Bowl? Always hear about them being one of the best teams ever and never understood that.

The Washington Redskins had something to do with that my friend.

1987 win in Chicago remains greatest playoff game I ever seen for Skins. And I went to 2 NFC Championship games at RFK.

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JMS

JMS

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No the 1983 Quarter back draft is not in jeprody... It's has 3 HOF QB's and one long time starter in Blackledge... Who is the third and fourth 2012 rookie even if RGIII and Luck become the next Elway and Marino... who's going to be Kelly (HOF) and Blackledge long time starter?

Elway ( HOF)

Todd Blackledge

Jim Kelly ( HOF)

Dan Marino ( HOF)

(Amazingly Marino went 2nd to last in the first round.)

Yeah I remember we had the 28th pick and choose Daryl Green.. Miami had the 27th pick and picked Dan Mariano..

---------- Post added December-11th-2012 at 12:37 PM ----------

Can an old head explain to me why the highly vaunted '85 Bears team only won a single Super Bowl? Always hear about them being one of the best teams ever and never understood that.

In this order.

  1. The heart and soul of the 85 Bears was the defense and the heart and brains of that defense was Buddy Ryan. When Buddy went to the eagles after the Super Bowl the Bears defense took a major hit. The new defensive coordinator adopted a new scheme and while the Bears remained a great defensive team, they weren't great enough to compete against the offensive power houses in the NFC.. The Skins and 49ers, and their defense basically got worse every year after Buddy left..
  2. The Redskins stole their most athletic linebacker Wilbur Marshal by making him a financial offer the Bears could not match. Other than Dent he was the one guy they could not replace.
  3. The Bears most talented and athletic interior defensive lineman, the fridge, without Ryan there to brow beat him into conforming.. ate himself out of the league and basically played out his career with the bears at 50 to a 100 lbs over weight.
  4. Daryl Green, The Redskins with a dominant offense basically hit a wall against Chicago in 1987 playoffs... We ended up beating them cause we had the fastest man in football returning punts for us, that day.. The bears proved vulnerable on special teams.

After 85, two seasons removed from Buddy Ryan's tutelage the Bears defense, the most dominant defense probable in the history of the Superbowl, became rather normal. By this time the offense and Jim McMahn was much better and carrying more of the load, but the Bears in 85 dominated on defense, and that just wasn't there any longer.. Free agency, personalities, and coaching issues brought them back down to earth, and the Redskins and 49ers who were also a very very good teams defeated them in the playoffs in their diminished state in

  • 1986 the skins beat them (27-13),
  • 1987 the skins beat them (21-17)
  • San Fran beat them 1988 (28-3),
  • 1989 they didn't even make the post season.

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JMS

JMS

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Thanks for the breakdown all.

Also, I've always heard that Gibbs was all set to take Marino at 28 if Miami hadn't of taken him. I wonder how many SB's he would've had with him at QB.

Marino's selection status in the 1983 NFL Draft plummeted after a subpar senior season at Pitt, rumors of drug use and rumors that knee injuries (resulting in four knee surgeries) were hampering his mobility. I never heard the Skins were thinking about taking him..

Gibbs wasn't running the draft board in 1983, Bobby Bethard was......

Back to the 1983 QB Draft.. I was mistaken... 4 qb were not taken in 1983... Six franchise starting QBs Were...3 HOFers'

  • Ken O'Brien,
  • Tony Eason, ( super bowl starter against the bears in 1985)
  • Todd Blackledge

Hall of Famers

  • Jim Kelly
  • John Elway
  • Dan Marino

In 2012 only 5 QB's were taken... Only 4 are starting..

Bobby Bethard thinks the 1983 Draft might be the strongest draft even without the 3 HOF QB's taken in the first round..

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/tag/_/name/bobby-beathard

Bobby Bethard on Dan Marino... Bethard claims he had the opprotunity to trade up in 1983 to draft Marino...... but chose not to..

It's important, so GMs lie – or spread rumors. The most famous came in 1983, when word got around Dan Marino had drug problems. The Hall of Famer tobogganed to the bottom of the first round. Former Chargers GM Bobby Beathard was in Washington then, and he once told me: “I had Marino ranked higher than any player I ever evaluated. I still didn't draft him.”

Lies can work.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2009/apr/20/chargers-canepa-nfl-draft-lies81553/?print&page=all

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TheDane

TheDane

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If Griffin, Luck, and Wilson continue their trajectory...

AND

If one of Tannehill, Weeden, or Foles steps up to become an above-average starter...

AND

If the other two of Tannehill, Weeden, and Foles become satisfactory starters for 5-8 years...

Then there would be a comparison.

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JMS

JMS

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If Griffin, Luck, and Wilson continue their trajectory...

AND

If one of Tannehill, Weeden, or Foles steps up to become an above-average starter...

AND

If the other two of Tannehill, Weeden, and Foles become satisfactory starters for 5-8 years...

Then there would be a comparison.

If you take overall draft, I think 83 is probable the strongest draft class ever...( see Bobby Bethard quote above)..

If you take just first round QB's taken in 1983, Six, and all of them were franchise QB's for a long time, 3 HOF....

I think the 2012 draft let's cross our fingers and say two are looking very very good right now...

Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III look like they have the potential to be very good starters for a long time in this league... If they defy the odds and become Marino's or Elways rather than Eason's and O'brien's... then you still have to get

one more HOF and 3 more long term starters out of just 3 2012 first round QB picks..cause only 5 QB's were taken in the first round of 2012.

  • Luck
  • RGIII
  • Ryan Tannehill, Miami ----------------- (TD–INT 7–12)
  • Brandon Weeden, Cleveland --------(TD–INT 13-15)
  • Brock Osweiler, Denver not starting

If you open it up to the entire Draft in order to include the Sea Hawks QB Russell Wilson who is playing great but was selected in the 3rd round... then you have to make up for the 1983 lower round picks which include long time NFL players as backups.. Gary Kubiac and Babe Laughinburg too..

I don't know if all three of these guys will be long term starters even if the other three do make HOF which is a long shot.

I think the 2012 QB draft looks great, stupendous even... but not quite up to the 1983 draft. I don't see how it could achieve that rarefied air.. Even if RGIII and Luck become top 5 QB's of all time.... I don't see 2012 competing.

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Wrong Direction

Wrong Direction

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You're all forgetting the 2nd best QB in the 2012 draft...KC12.

I'd imagine we could quantify this answer by:

1. # HOFers

2. # Superbowl wins

3. # Superbowl trips

4. # probowls (voted, not named after dropouts)

5. # games started

6. # TDs

7. # yards

The first 4-5 are more comparable than the last two (in terms of accounting for the era in which these stats took place).

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JMS

JMS

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You're all forgetting the 2nd best QB in the 2012 draft...KC12.

I'd imagine we could quantify this answer by:

1. # HOFers

2. # Superbowl wins

3. # Superbowl trips

4. # probowls (voted, not named after dropouts)

5. # games started

6. # TDs

7. # yards

The first 4-5 are more comparable than the last two (in terms of accounting for the era in which these stats took place).

I like that metric.. That shows how far the 2012 class would have to go to reach 1983 status...

1. # HOFers--------------------------------------------------------3

2. # Superbowl wins---------------------------------------------2 (both Elway)

3. # Superbowl trips---------------------------------------------10 ( elway 5, kelly 4, eason 1, Marino 1)

4. # probowls (voted, not named after dropouts)------ 24( Obrian 2, Elway 9, Kelly 4, Marino 9

5. # games started-----------------------------------------------

6. # TDs--------------------------------------------------------------

7. # yards------------------------------------------------------------

Given the relatively low super bowl wins of that 1983 class I've reconsidered my position.... Hell yes 2012 is going to be stronger... I have high hopes for RG3

---------- Post added December-11th-2012 at 02:24 PM ----------

You're forgetting Russell Wilson.

He was in the 3rd round not the first... If you throw him in then that expands the number of QB's from 1983.....

Seriously though if Luck, RG3 and Wilson can't win more than 2 super bowls in the next 12-15 years, I think we will all be amazed.... We have to believe the 2012 class will eclipse the accomplishments of the 1983 class based upon SB victories alone.

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deejaydana

deejaydana

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You're forgetting Russell Wilson.

He also never mentioned Mike Singletary in his accounting of indispensible pieces of that Bear's team. In all my years of watching football, and it's a lot because, well I'm OLD now, the 1985 Bears were THE most stifling, nasty, dominating defense I've ever seen. The Ravens team was close that year they won it all, but they still weren't as top to bottom great. It all fell apart so quickly which still seems weird even with the hindsight of what, 20+ years time. They steamrolled us that year 45-10 btw.

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JMS

JMS

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He also never mentioned Mike Singletary on his accounting of indispensible pieces of that Bear's team.

I always thought he looked kind of funny.. But this was the definition of an intense stare from the 1980's..

singletary.jpg

Singletary was a great player, but i was looking at what changed the team causing their drop off from the dominant team of 1985 and amazingly never made the Superbowl again.

#1 Singletary who was the on field leader and QB of the defense and widely regarded as their smart and most intense linebacker, didn't go anywhere so he was there as the team took a step backwards defensively without Ryan, Marshal, and a fat Fridge.

#2 Mike Singletary actually hurt the Bears in their attempt to keep the 1985 team together. Singletary had a clause in his contract as I remember that said he had to be the #1 paid Linebacker, maybe defensive player... When the skins offered Wilber Marshal a huge contract they did so knowing the bears could not match because they would have to do the same thing for Singletary.

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JMS

JMS

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^^^^^^ and he made a HORRIBLE head coach in SF (but to his credit he put together an incredible defense that Harbuagh now gets full credit for). Hey, I just recalled he's a fellow Baylor Bear alum along with our current QB. He was a terror on the field.

Yeah correct me if I'm wrong here but he's mentioned in the same breath as Laurence Taylor for greatest linebackers of the 1980's. I give Laurence the nod.. but Singletary was that caliber of player.

#4 all time Linebacker behind Lewis and Taylor

http://www.sports-central.org/sports/2010/02/24/the_best_linebackers_of_alltime.php

#2 all time Middle Linebacker behind only Lewis

http://unassistedsports.com/top-10-middle-linebackers-of-all-time/

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