HTTR 24-7: Enough Is Enough and It's Time For A Change.

[Enter Apotheosis]

What should Snyder do if Shanny insist on keeping both Haslett and Smith? If we go 5-11 or 6-10, shouldn't Shanny be evaluated? And a coaching change this early in his career will not doom RG3' s career.

It could seriously set him back or doom him if we hire someone in the vein of every single offensive mind in the Redskins employ post-Schottenheimer. I don't think Haslett will stick around for much longer if he's clearly not doing a good job. How much longer he makes it is really going to come down to whether this is viewed as primarily a personnel problem or a coaching problem.

[Oldfan]

Well, you certainly persuaded me that we need an upgrade at the DC position. I've been thinking that since the man was hired, though.

The tougher question is -- who can Mike Shanahan find who is likely to be an upgrade? Mike doesn't have a history of picking good men for the job. Some say he used his DCs in Denver as scapegoats. I don't know if that's fair, but that's what I read.

I read Raheem's bio. He doesn't have much experience.

I don't know Spanos, but if he thought he was qualified to be the DC of a pro team, why did he take a college job at the position?

So, while I would like to see an upgrade, I can't see making a move until there's a guy available who shows the promise of being a definite upgrade and is willing to take the job.

[zoony]

Well, you certainly persuaded me that we need an upgrade at the DC position. I've been thinking that since the man was hired, though.

The tougher question is -- who can Mike Shanahan find who is likely to be an upgrade? Mike doesn't have a history of picking good men for the job. Some say he used his DCs in Denver as scapegoats. I don't know if that's fair, but that's what I read.

I read Raheem's bio. He doesn't have much experience.

I don't know Spanos, but if he thought he was qualified to be the DC of a pro team, why did he take a college job at the position?

So, while I would like to see an upgrade, I can't see making a move until there's a guy available who shows the promise of being a definite upgrade and is willing to take the job.

What would you think of Romeo crennel if he was out at kc this offseason?

[Oldfan]

What would you think of Romeo crennel if he was out at kc this offseason?

Qualified, but would Romeo be willing to work with Mike? When you have a guy who works one side of the ball in charge, it's tough to find a really experienced guy working the other side who's on the same page.

[hail2skins]

What if Rex Ryan gets fired from the Jets?

[TSO]

The tougher question is -- who can Mike Shanahan find who is likely to be an upgrade? Mike doesn't have a history of picking good men for the job. Some say he used his DCs in Denver as scapegoats. I don't know if that's fair, but that's what I read.

Maybe Mike has stuck with Haslett for this long just to disprove this notion among the "fraternity" of coaches so he could get an awesome one in here eventually? :whoknows:

One can hope, lol.

[Enter Apotheosis]

What would you think of Romeo crennel if he was out at kc this offseason?

Crennel worries me a bit. He's a logical candidate but it seems to me like his reputation consistently exceeds the actual performance of his teams post-Pats.

[KCClybun]

Well, you certainly persuaded me that we need an upgrade at the DC position. I've been thinking that since the man was hired, though.

The tougher question is -- who can Mike Shanahan find who is likely to be an upgrade? Mike doesn't have a history of picking good men for the job. Some say he used his DCs in Denver as scapegoats. I don't know if that's fair, but that's what I read.

I read Raheem's bio. He doesn't have much experience.

I don't know Spanos, but if he thought he was qualified to be the DC of a pro team, why did he take a college job at the position?

Lots of coaches get experience at the college experience before moving up. Probaby was a really good opportunity and really good money. Hard to pass that out.

As far as guys who Shanny would hire, someone like Keith Butler is a linebackers coach for the Steelers who's thought to be the next man in line when Dick LeBeau retires. Don't know if he'd want to leave the Steelers but he's a guy who has an extensive pedigree and has developed some damn good linebackers since becoming a coach in 2003.

I think Steve Spagnulo is on the hot seat in New Orleans, he's a guy we can bring in. I think his problem in New Orleans is that he doesn't have the pass rushing front he needs to get that defense going, but (provided we bring back Rak) we have better pass rushing ends, plus Barry has played in the system before.

Trust me, I'm keeping my eyes out on defensive coordinators...

[Oldfan]

Maybe Mike has stuck with Haslett for this long just to disprove this notion among the "fraternity" of coaches so he could get an awesome one in here eventually? :whoknows:

One can hope, lol.

I think that could very well be why Mike has stuck with Haz. He might be doing a patch job on his reputation with DCs.

[KCClybun]

What if Rex Ryan gets fired from the Jets?

Mike's track record suggests that hed never hire someone like Rex. If Rex does get fired, though, I wonder if Mike wouldn't look at the Jets defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. Seems more Mike's style without being a yes man.

[KCClybun]

I think that could very well be why Mike has stuck with Haz. He might be doing a patch job on his reputation with DCs.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

"See! I'm willing to stick with a guy even when he sucks! You're awesome, so you have even better job security!"

Lol.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Lots of coaches get experience at the college experience before moving up. Probaby was a really good opportunity and really good money. Hard to pass that out.

As far as guys who Shanny would hire, someone like Keith Butler is a linebackers coach for the Steelers who's thought to be the next man in line when Dick LeBeau retires. Don't know if he'd want to leave the Steelers but he's a guy who has an extensive pedigree and has developed some damn good linebackers since becoming a coach in 2003.

I think Steve Spagnulo is on the hot seat in New Orleans, he's a guy we can bring in. I think his problem in New Orleans is that he doesn't have the pass rushing front he needs to get that defense going, but (provided we bring back Rak) we have better pass rushing ends, plus Barry has played in the system before.

Trust me, I'm keeping my eyes out on defensive coordinators...

Spags has no 3-4 experience and has looked pretty miserable everywhere he's gone since leaving New York.

Butler has already turned down DC jobs. He seems to be looking forward to taking over for LeBeau.

[KCClybun]

Qualified, but would Romeo be willing to work with Mike? When you have a guy who works one side of the ball in charge, it's tough to find a really experienced guy working the other side who's on the same page.

I think we reached out Romeo when Mike for came in, but nothing happened. I think Romeo was just biding his time til' he got a head coaching offer, and who are you more likely to take a job from; Mike Shanahan, or Todd Haley?

---------- Post added October-29th-2012 at 03:25 PM ----------

Spags has no 3-4 experience and has looked pretty miserable everywhere he's gone since leaving New York.

Butler has already turned down DC jobs. He seems to be looking forward to taking over for LeBeau.

Man, at this point I don't care if we play 3-4, 4-3, 3-5-5, the 46, whatever. We just need a d-coordinator who's better, period.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

It was time for a change at the end of year two.

Sadly, as much as the majority of us crave one, and as pertinent as the OP is; I highly doubt we get one until the end of year three.

Hail.

[Dukes and Skins]

Darren Perry NLC, if we dont get Butler I would love Perry

[TSO]

That actually makes a lot of sense.

"See! I'm willing to stick with a guy even when he sucks! You're awesome, so you have even better job security!"

Lol.

lol, if so, it'd be a brilliant and shrewd move, though overall it stinks for us Skins fans that we acquired this baggage with Mike that had nothing to do with us and it's actually costing us this season, perhaps.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Man, at this point I don't care if we play 3-4, 4-3, 3-5-5, the 46, whatever. We just need a d-coordinator who's better, period.

We're at a point where I'd anticipate there being problems with forcing a full-time 4-3 on our current personnel. Besides which, Shanahan seems to have a clear identity for this team in mind and I doubt he's particularly keen on going to a dramatically different scheme.

[Oldfan]

...Man, at this point I don't care if we play 3-4, 4-3, 3-5-5, the 46, whatever. We just need a d-coordinator who's better, period.

That's my feeling on it too. Find someone with more brainpower and sufficient experience and let him work out an intelligent plan with Mike's approval.

[authentic]

We're at a point where I'd anticipate there being problems with forcing a full-time 4-3 on our current personnel. Besides which, Shanahan seems to have a clear identity for this team in mind and I doubt he's particularly keen on going to a dramatically different scheme.

i would prefer that we stay the course with what scheme we already have. I just think we need a sound, experienced DC to coach the players.

[PlayAction]

That's my feeling on it too. Find someone with more brainpower and sufficient experience and let him work out an intelligent plan with Mike's approval.

Ok - so when everyone around the league is saying that the Skins secondary is really short on talent you lay the blame on the DC? Shanahan is responsible for player acquisition. He decides whether limited resources get assigned to the Offense or Defense. If anything, Haslett has been critized for having too much of a mad scientist approach to the defense. Use less brainpower and use the KISS principle.

[Griffout]

This is ridiculous. I challenge someone to name a coach who they think could come in and turn this defense around this season. It's a miracle that we held the Steelers to less than 30 points.

The defensive play calling has been conservative because our DB's literally can't cover ANYONE. What is the coach supposed to do when his players can't stay healthy? Look at our personnel! Ryan Kerrigan and London Fletcher are the only players on the squad who are starting caliber players on most NFL teams, and with Fletcher's hamstring even that is questionable. DeAngelo Hall is a decent nickel corner or starter with a solid cover guy on the other side of the field. Perry Riley and Rob Jackson are solid in rotation, but they certainly aren't top-quality players. These guys need time and continuity with their coaches. We've seen over the past TWELVE seasons what happens to a team when you have constant staff turnover.

[Oldfan]

Ok - so when everyone around the league is saying that the Skins secondary is really short on talent you lay the blame on the DC? Shanahan is responsible for player acquisition. He decides whether limited resources get assigned to the Offense or Defense. If anything, Haslett has been critized for having too much of a mad scientist approach to the defense. Use less brainpower and use the KISS principle.

Don't assume that someone wanting to upgrade the DC position has decided that a lack of roster talent isn't ALSO a factor.

You should also not assume that the KISS principle does not require more brainpower on the part of the system designer.

[kingarthur65]

This is ridiculous. I challenge someone to name a coach who they think could come in and turn this defense around this season. It's a miracle that we held the Steelers to less than 30 points.

The defensive play calling has been conservative because our DB's literally can't cover ANYONE. What is the coach supposed to do when his players can't stay healthy? Look at our personnel! Ryan Kerrigan and London Fletcher are the only players on the squad who are starting caliber players on most NFL teams, and with Fletcher's hamstring even that is questionable. DeAngelo Hall is a decent nickel corner or starter with a solid cover guy on the other side of the field. Perry Riley and Rob Jackson are solid in rotation, but they certainly aren't top-quality players. These guys need time and continuity with their coaches. We've seen over the past TWELVE seasons what happens to a team when you have constant staff turnover.

You're right, our DB's can't cover.

Why then, do our coaches decide to rush 3 and force our DB's to cover receivers for 5 seconds?

[KCClybun]

This is ridiculous. I challenge someone to name a coach who they think could come in and turn this defense around this season. It's a miracle that we held the Steelers to less than 30 points.

The defensive play calling has been conservative because our DB's literally can't cover ANYONE.

No NFL DB can cover receivers as long with as little pressure as we're generating.

We're rushing 3 or 4 guys versus 5 and 6 man protection schemes. So we're losing the battle before it's even started. Do the math.

So right away, you leave an iffy secondary at a huge disadvantage. Now you have a weak secondary that has to cover for even longer than they already would.

Haslett started to add stunts back to the defense, but even then, we're only running four man stunts. The blitzes he does call are long developing ones, usually involving defensive backs, that rely on one man getting free. So even when we blitz, at most, we're rushing 5, and once again we have 5 on six.

The linebacking core is the strength of this team, but he can't scheme a way to utilize that strength. The d-line is athletic enough to stunt, but he doesn't seem to like doing it, and when he does, he often leaves the defense at a disadvantage.

And, as I point out, when it comes to talent, these are all guys that Haslett himself has picked out. That means he helped picked the starters, AND he helped picked the depth behind it. Injuries happen. The great d-coordinators overcome. The average ones find a way to make it work.

Nothing he's doing is doing that.

[nuposse87]

Wait until the season is over, at least. Letting him go serves no real purpose...they won't be better without him. Raheem was regarded as a hand-holder and not very inspiring in tampa. Not sure if he's the answer either.

It's not like if Haslett is fired, the defense will suddenly step up and execute on fundamentals they are currently missing. it's a lack of talent, and at times, an inappropriate scheme.

Right because if we use someone else, we'll actually play worse (if that is even possible). Not willing to hold our coordinators accountable for their failures will keep this franchise from ever being competitive. If the coordinators insist on calling whacky offensive plays that kill drives and defenses that play scared the entire game the best thing that can happen to this team is losing out, so Snyder has to ax the entire coaching staff. This level of awfulness is unacceptable in year 3.