Would Kyle Shanahan add spread/zone read plays into the offense?

[mistertim]

I don't see how anyone can logically deduce that Mike Shanahan will incorporate spread concepts to the extent that Carolina did for Cam -- which was the question posed in the OP.

Technically the question was would Kyle add spread concepts. I think he is much more likely to than his father would have in the past. Or at least to more of an extent.

[Darth Tater]

Technically the question was would Kyle add spread concepts. I think he is much more likely to than his father would have in the past. Or at least to more of an extent.

Don't know. The only spread concepts I've not seen in Kyle's offense are zone reads (which wouldn't take much if RG3 is the QB), inverted veers (usually you need to have a zone read installed for these to work), boots based on zone reads (although its pretty easy to boot of a shotgun spread even when the running game is stretch zone based, see the play posted against Buffalo by DG earlier) and possibly TB runs such as power, counter and traps out of a shotgun spread.

[Oldfan]

Technically the question was would Kyle add spread concepts. I think he is much more likely to than his father would have in the past. Or at least to more of an extent.

Since we had a spread package last season, I interpreted the following to be a question about extent with Cam-Carolina as a model for comparison.

If DG was only asking would they add a few Baylor plays, well, duh, most likely.

From the OP:

QUESTION 1

If Cam Newton was available last year do you think Kyle Shanahan would have wanted to draft him?

QUESTION 2

Do you think Kyle has the desire to incorporate zone-read/spread concepts into his offense like Rob Chudzinski did with Gus Malzahn's playbook for Cam?

[darrelgreenie]

Don't know. The only spread concepts I've not seen in Kyle's offense are zone reads (which wouldn't take much if RG3 is the QB), inverted veers (usually you need to have a zone read installed for these to work), boots based on zone reads (although its pretty easy to boot of a shotgun spread even when the running game is stretch zone based, see the play posted against Buffalo by DG earlier) and possibly TB runs such as power, counter and traps out of a shotgun spread.

If there is one area of the spread that I doubt Kyle would add its the running game.

The running game wasn't very diverse, it wasn't until about week 12 that we added the toss.

I'm hopeful about spread/shotgun running game.

But being that Kyle doesn't seem particularly invested in the running game now its doubtful that he would bring diversity in the spread running game.

---------- Post added April-5th-2012 at 05:31 PM ----------

I don't see how anyone can logically deduce that Mike Shanahan will incorporate spread concepts to the extent that Carolina did for Cam -- which was the question posed in the OP.

The Panthers were pretty much a spread offense last year.

I don't have the stats but watched the majority of the Panther's games and they were in shotgun a high percentage of the time.

They also had a good running game from the gun and a deadly redzone goal line package.

Those packages were built around Cam's running ability and zone-read and option concepts.

I don't think Mike and Kyle would change the offense to that drastic an extent that they feature zone-read and commit to running from the spread.

(Heck, whether they should or shouldn't is an interesting question in itself)

However; I could see Kyle embracing the pass heavy spread concepts, where the use of shotgun spread formations increases to rival teams like the Patriots, Packers etc.

[KCClybun]

Given the fact that we'll likely have Robert Griffin III, and Roy Helu, a running back who's familiar with running the spread/option from his time at Nebraska, I think it's ridiculous to assume Kyle simply wouldn't add those aspects because "Kyle doesn't seem invested in the run game".

By the way, we finished the season with a 1.4-to-1 pass/run ratio. Clearly Kyle's not invested in the run game.

[s0crates]

I do not know if this helps, but more and more plays are being run from the shotgun these days.

[Oldfan]

Griffin comes from a spread, Kyle's offense has some spread formations and concepts.

They made upgrading the WRs corps a major offseason focus.

Given Kyle's penchant towards the pass going more spread seems logical; time will tell.

Will you clarify the question in your OP? Were you asking whether the Shanahans would modify their scheme to incorporate spread to the extent that Carolina did for Cam? That's the way I interpreted your question. If that's not the question, then they could add a couple of Baylor plays and you could claim to be right in predicting "more spread."

Bill Polian told us that Garcon and Morgan would be good WCO receivers.

[KCClybun]

I don't know if we're going invest in the spread the way Carolina went all in on the spread with Rod Chuzinksy, but I do think we'll be adding some of those Baylor spread plays to our playbook.

I've been going crazy trying to find this play where the Jeremy Bates--coordinated Broncos actually ran option down inside the ten.

I did find this video where Mike Shanahan was doing insane stuff with Cutler and Marshall from 2007, lining Marshall up in the backfield and running the ball with him and all sorts of stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16qhwX26vOA

---------- Post added April-5th-2012 at 05:51 PM ----------

Found it;

Start it at, like, 1:20.

[darrelgreenie]

Will you clarify the question in your OP? Were you asking whether the Shanahans would modify their scheme to incorporate spread to the extent that Carolina did for Cam?

Sure I'll clarify, I wasn't asking specifically about the extent to which they Kyle would add Carolina like zone-read/spread.

I asked the OP question because I was curious about the perception of Mike/Kyle's desire to add zone-read and or spread concepts to the offense.

But you know how threads go the OP questions are just a jumping off point.

I asked this of LL56 a few post after the OP and it kinda speaks to your question about extent

I know Kyle's offense has some spread concepts almost all NFL offense have some.

But what about zone-read?

And do you think the zone-read/spread concepts would/could become major parts of the offense like w/ Carolina?

My own answer to the above question is no to zone-read yes to spread, like I said in post #104

If that's not the question, then they could add a couple of Baylor plays and you could claim to be right in predicting "more spread."

If that's how you see it that's fine but this thread is just a discussion; just a few guys talking football......

[Darth Tater]

NLC,

Kyle's run game seems to be very KISS. I could see altering the zone stretch from the shotgun to have RG3 read the backside end but going boot instead of pure run. I also suspect that if Kyle adds any plays that look like zone reads, they'll be primarily to prevent second level guys flowing too fast so we can get the play side edge without committing an extra blocker.

Something like this:

[darrelgreenie]

I do not know if this helps, but more and more plays are being run from the shotgun these days.

Every bit helps.

I'm still working on finding the team stats for plays (pass/run) from shotgun.

[Oldfan]

...If that's how you see it that's fine but this thread is just a discussion; just a few guys talking football......

Well, that's fine. I wasn't trying to be contentious here. I'm just trying to figure out the point of the disussion. Obviously, I was giving my opinion on the wrong question.

I'll predict that the Shanahans add some spread, but there won't be enough change to cause a media buzz about it -- nothing close to the Carolina-Cam buzz.

[darrelgreenie]

I also suspect that if Kyle adds any plays that look like zone reads, they'll be primarily to prevent second level guys flowing too fast so we can get the play side edge without committing an extra blocker.

Or to get the second level defenders to take a false step or 2 so that Griff can hit the seam routes or just throw over their heads.

[darrelgreenie]

A good video breakdown of the zone read at the NFL level:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-anatomy-of-a-play/09000d5d825be2c0/Anatomy-of-a-Play-Broncos-read-option

[darrelgreenie]

Gruden talks about the zone read + WCO concepts that could be possibilities for our offense with Griffin if Kyle adds zone-read plays/concepts:

@ 7:50-8:30

This read option combined with the WCO offense is just down right scary...no huddle offense..hey...it regulates the coverage and fronts a defense can play

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO6UgIg1AU4

Gruden's comment to Tannehill after the zone-read conversation applies even more to Griffin:

The better you are

the more we can do

-the more we can do

the better we will be

[Darth Tater]

DG,

A read option and zone read are different things. Well, a zone read is a read option but a read option is not necessarily a zone read.

[darrelgreenie]

I also suspect that if Kyle adds any plays that look like zone reads, they'll be primarily to prevent second level guys flowing too fast so we can get the play side edge without committing an extra blocker.

Or to get the second level defenders to take a false step or 2 so that Griff can hit the seam routes or just throw over their heads.

Like so:

---------- Post added September-12th-2012 at 03:24 PM ----------

picture is from this must read article from Grantland:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/36841/back-to-school-how-mike-shanahan-is-using-rg3s-college-offense-with-the-redskins

[SkinsHokieFan]

That grantland article is fantastic.

This thread has my juices flowing last spring. I am loving the pistol/spread element to the offense and what it can do

[Kindred]

We're incorporating package plays that react to what the defense does. you can read more here:

"Packaged" plays and rethinking the concept of modern play calling - Grantland

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8287610/packaged-plays-rethinking-concept-modern-play-calling