PhillySportsDaily.com: Football Outsiders: Stats Show the Eagles Have a Chance

[Oldfan]

Martin ~ The stretch does not have to go outside. If the End is wide and stays outside the tackles outside shoulder as the play develops the back should have a cease inside the tackle or a lane to cut back.

You make it sound easy. When I imagine the play, the wide rusher is in a sprinter’s stance charging off the edge and angled in at less than 45 degrees to the LOS. That’s an extremely tough block for the tackles to make on the stretch which asks the RB to exercise patience. I don’t know how often the defender could be kept from dropping the RB in the backfield on that play.

I agree that this is an interesting game on many levels.

[MartinC]

You make it sound easy. When I imagine the play, the wide rusher is in a sprinter’s stance charging off the edge. That’s an almost impossible block for the tackles to make on the stretch which asks the RB to exercise patience. I don’t know how often the defender could be kept from dropping the RB in the backfield on that play.

I agree that this is an interesting game on many levels.

If the DE is that wide then you will see an adjustment in the blocking to take advantage of the width, the tackle will keep him outside and the back will be expected to read that and make an earlier cut. I think suits Torrains running style and I expect to see him running inside of Trent Williams or cutting back through the middle a lot Sunday.

If the Eagles adjust by bringing their DE tighter then you run the standard stretch.

I'm sure we have spent a lot of time working on this and the adjustments to blocking based on defensive alignment.

[Oldfan]

If the DE is that wide then you will see an adjustment in the blocking to take advantage of the width.

The theory of the Wide Nine, as I understand it, is that there is no adjustment the tackle can make that can't be countered because the tackle can't move once set. What kind of adjustment did you have in mind?

[Larry]

The theory of the Wide Nine, as I understand it, is that there is no adjustment the tackle can make that can't be countered because the tackle can't move once set. What kind of adjustment did you have in mind?

I think what he's saying is, if the DE is wide, then the OT simply keeps him wide, and the RB runs inside the (wide) OT.

[MartinC]

The theory of the Wide Nine, as I understand it, is that there is no adjustment the tackle can make that can't be countered because the tackle can't move once set. What kind of adjustment did you have in mind?

If the DE lines up wide rather than the tackle trying to stretch the play and get to the DEs outside shoulder the tackle will just wall off the DE or use his up field penetration against him, the Guard will seal down on the DT and the play changes on the fly from being a stretch play to an off tackle run to the tackles inside shoulder. If the DE lines up or moves tighter the play is run as the stretch.

[Oldfan]

If the DE lines up wide rather than the tackle trying to stretch the play and get to the DEs outside shoulder the tackle will just wall off the DE or use his up field penetration against him, the Guard will seal down on the DT and the play changes on the fly from being a stretch play to an off tackle run to the tackles inside shoulder. If the DE lines up or moves tighter the play is run as the stretch.

If it was just a simple matter of the tackle walling off the DE, then there is no point at all to the Wide Nine. I think the point of the defense's strategy is that that block is extremely tough to make for the tackles.

[MartinC]

If it was just a simple matter of the tackle walling off the DE, then there is no point at all to the Wide Nine. I think the point of the defense's strategy is that that block is extremely tough to make for the tackles.

The evidence of the Eagles season so far suggests otherwise

The wide nine is essentially a defense that helps with pressure and getting to the QB. Against the run you need very good linebackers to provide run support in those big gaps inside the DEs and the Eagles just flat don't have good linebackers.

[Oldfan]

I think what he's saying is, if the DE is wide, then the OT simply keeps him wide, and the RB runs inside the (wide) OT.

Sure, that's easy to say -- but the whole point of the wide nine, at least as I understand it, is to make that extremely hard for the tackle to do.

[LD0506]

Looking for a good game from our safeties, we need Landry playing full speed smart ball like he showed last year.

And McCoy is arguably their biggest threat right now, Has needs to neutralize him as much as possible.

[Oldfan]

The evidence of the Eagles season so far suggests otherwise

The wide nine is essentially a defense that helps with pressure and getting to the QB. Against the run you need very good linebackers to provide run support in those big gaps inside the DEs and the Eagles just flat don't have good linebackers.

The Wide Nine isn't just aimed at more pressure on the QB. The edge rusher's job is to tackle the man with the ball, whether it's a QB or a RB.

I think the defense, run from a 4-3, is vulnerable to a power-running team with a big O-line -- which we are not.

The Eagles don't have the right personnel for it, but I don't think we match up well against that defense, so I doubt that we can roll up big numbers in the running game. I think our screens can hurt them, though.

[Larry]

The Wide Nine isn't just aimed at more pressure on the QB. The edge rusher's job is to tackle the man with the ball, whether it's a QB or a RB.

I think the defense, run from a 4-3, is vulnerable to a power-running team with a big O-line -- which we are not.

The Eagles don't have the right personnel for it, but I don't think we match up well against that defense, so I doubt that we can roll up big numbers in the running game. I think our screens can hurt them, though.

I think you've got a good point.

At least in my (grossly uninformed) opinion, what this technique does against the run, is that it forces teams to run inside. I could see how it also might be effective against slow developing run plays (by getting penetration).

I don't see the sweeps that we ran against the Giants working, for example.

(Although, does a screen pass successfully get the ball wide, despite the wide DE?)

[kingofdaroad99]

exuses me PhillySportsDaily but

[Oldfan]

...(Although, does a screen pass successfully get the ball wide, despite the wide DE?...)

Seems to me that the edge rusher, charging inside, would be taking himself out of the play as the RB swings behind him as a receiver

[Larry]

Seems to me that the edge rusher, charging inside, would be taking himself out of the play as the RB swings behind him as a receiver

Although, you'd have to throw the ball HIGH, (to get it over the edge rusher), or you're risking a pick six.

[Oldfan]

Although, you'd have to throw the ball HIGH, (to get it over the edge rusher), or you're risking a pick six.

I think we are imagining different angles. You could be right. It will be interesting to see how this plays out Sunday.

[Hitman21ST]

Although, you'd have to throw the ball HIGH, (to get it over the edge rusher), or you're risking a pick six.

I think we are imagining different angles. You could be right. It will be interesting to see how this plays out Sunday.

Screen passes aren't generally frozen ropes anyway. The QB is dropping back, hoping that will suck the pass rushers in. He then lobs (soft tosses) it over their heads. This shouldn't change coming from a wide-9.

[tex]

I wouldn't say a middle of the pack run defense could be "gashed". Gash is what Fred Jackson did to the Eagles. And of course the Eagles have a chance to win, it is stupid of them to imply that many people think otherwise.

Those guys are embellishing the obvious. Even Vegas has the Skins as a 3 point dog.

Still, Washington is going to kick the crap out of those birds.