Hitman21ST Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Obviously, there is a difference between the two. It is also clear that some corners are better in man than in zone or vice versa. Some corners can succeed in both. However, there comes a time in a play where it doesn't matter what the coverage scheme is, or what a player's specific assignment is. After the quarterback releases the ball. Once the quarterback lets go of the ball in the direction of the receiver, the type of coverage doesn't matter. A defender's job shifts from "cover player x" or "cover my zone" to "knock the ball down." That's where Nnamdi comes in. I keep hearing that Nnamdi is being used incorrectly. That's all well and good, and probably true. However, it shouldn't have nearly as much of an effect on him allowing his man to catch the ball as it appears to have done. I know the differences between man and zone in the positioning of the defender in relation to the receiver, and I know that changes the dynamic of it. However, after watching Victor Cruz abuse him multiple times, including on essentially a jump ball at the end zone where there's no way in hell that should have been caught, I'm getting the distinct impression that Nnamdi's ball skills just aren't where everyone assumed they were from his "greatness" in Oakland. Maybe it was just that the rest of the Raider defense was that bad, that QBs didn't throw at Nnamdi because they knew they had an advantage everywhere else in that secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Yeah out of all the FA signings, Nnamdi seemed the most sure thing coming into the season, although I was leery of a 30 year old corner demanding a big contract, that is why I was glad the 'Skins steered clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmitty_199 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I wouldn't say it's all the same when the balls in the air at all. The Raiders usually lined up Nnamdi in man to man with no help over the top. This means on intermediate to deep routes he had his back turned to the QB and was running stride for stride with the WR. He would either read the recievers body language and eyes to know when to turn and try and make a play on the ball, or listen to the "Ball Ball Ball!" calls by his teammates and coaches if on his own sideline. In zone defenders typically have the QB in their LOS for a much bigger portion of the play, and the play they need to make is more often in front of them instead of behind or even with them. Instead of just shadowing one man, Nnamdi now has to keep his eye on route combinations during the play and time breaks on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Instead of just shadowing one man, Nnamdi now has to keep his eye on route combinations during the play and time breaks on the ball. And, why on earth would the Eagles have a brilliant cover guy do something he's not needed to do? Poor coaching. The guy is a great talent. The Eagles have an offensive coordinator as a DC... Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 And, why on earth would the Eagles have a brilliant cover guy do something he's not needed to do?Poor coaching. The guy is a great talent. The Eagles have an offensive coordinator as a DC... Duh. Incorrect.... Offensive line coach, wasnt even a coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRomoProBowl Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Obviously, there is a difference between the two. It is also clear that some corners are better in man than in zone or vice versa. Some corners can succeed in both. However, there comes a time in a play where it doesn't matter what the coverage scheme is, or what a player's specific assignment is.After the quarterback releases the ball. Once the quarterback lets go of the ball in the direction of the receiver, the type of coverage doesn't matter. A defender's job shifts from "cover player x" or "cover my zone" to "knock the ball down." That's where Nnamdi comes in. I keep hearing that Nnamdi is being used incorrectly. That's all well and good, and probably true. However, it shouldn't have nearly as much of an effect on him allowing his man to catch the ball as it appears to have done. I know the differences between man and zone in the positioning of the defender in relation to the receiver, and I know that changes the dynamic of it. However, after watching Victor Cruz abuse him multiple times, including on essentially a jump ball at the end zone where there's no way in hell that should have been caught, I'm getting the distinct impression that Nnamdi's ball skills just aren't where everyone assumed they were from his "greatness" in Oakland. Maybe it was just that the rest of the Raider defense was that bad, that QBs didn't throw at Nnamdi because they knew they had an advantage everywhere else in that secondary. you make a great point, Awesome Waugh is just not making the play (s) on the ball like he did in Philly, and not sure of the reason why, but that break....and/or play on the ball you speak of, is in a players heart whether he is goods at man or zzp0ne coverage or both......for whatever reason, awesome Waugh lost his confidence and its showing in that part of his game...... that break to the ball, that ability to see it, break on it and make a play on it...is what made Sean Taylor so special and is exactly why Angela Hall is a play-maker and not a complete waste of space......I get on Hall because of how often he gets beat, but he stays at the top of his game for his ability to make that break you speak of,....... I have no idea why it has happened to Awesome Waugh but makes me happy that Dallas didnt spend money they didnt have on him this year.....Dallas secondary is bad enough with out him LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointyfootball Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Players have to buy into a coach & his system as well, and it seems obvious that Eagles defenders have NOT bought into their DC's system/abilities, similar to last year. It's amazing how much of a difference a coach can make in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warpath11 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Castillo is a terrible d-coordinator. I've seen snaps with Nnamdi in the slot!!??!?!?! in the slot?? really? Nnamdi does not posses the rare change of direction skills needed to succeed in the slot and as such should be left on an island with press-man coverage. I think Castillo is trying to be too cute and disguise things but with Nnamdi there is no need to do that. I would line him up outside with press man coverage on any WR he lines up against. The rest of the defenders can run a zone or something exotic but let Nnamdi do what Nanmdi does the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 No there is a huge difference between the two. The break on the ball that you speak of is critical in zone coverage but not so much with man to man. Nmandi wa great because he was so physical at the line of scrimmage and with his body positioning, the opposing WRs could not get away from him. If you are playing good man-roman there really isn't a need to break on the ball because thy would mean that WR got separation. For zone coverage, it is all about recognizing the play and anticipating the throw so that you can make the break on the ball. Nmandi is being used wrong. If Hall was forced to play the style of defense that Oakland plays then he would be out the league. You actually saw that cause Hall got cut from Oakland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Nnamdi is the opposite of DHall. You put him on an island, and he'll shut them down. But have him play zone, and he suddenly becomes not shutdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Nnamdi wasn't worth the $60million. The sabremetrics guys who have had a huge influence on football statistics over the past 5 years or so overinflated his value to the point where Eagles fans are wondering why they got him. The truth is, you don't pay $60 million to a cornerback who doesn't make big plays. You can have an opponent success rate of 0%, a QB completion percentage against of 0%, etc. but it only does your team so much good. To get $60 million in value out of a player he needs to be changing the game, and you don't do that by just shutting 1 skill-position player on the other team down. In 8 seasons he's accumulated 12 picks and 2 fumbles. You take out his best season, and he got 4 picks and 1 fumble in 7 seasons. That's not enough production for $60 mil, IMO. Deangelo Hall, who is also making $60 million, AVERAGES about 4 picks, 2 fumbles, and 1 TD per season. Not saying either guy is worth their contract, but if I were going to put money on one of them it would be Hall because he has the capability to singlehandedly win my team games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Nnamdi wasn't worth the $60million. The sabremetrics guys who have had a huge influence on football statistics over the past 5 years or so overinflated his value to the point where Eagles fans are wondering why they got him. The truth is, you don't pay $60 million to a cornerback who doesn't make big plays. You can have an opponent success rate of 0%, a QB completion percentage against of 0%, etc. but it only does your team so much good. To get $60 million in value out of a player he needs to be changing the game, and you don't do that by just shutting 1 skill-position player on the other team down.In 8 seasons he's accumulated 12 picks and 2 fumbles. You take out his best season, and he got 4 picks and 1 fumble in 7 seasons. That's not enough production for $60 mil, IMO. Deangelo Hall, who is also making $60 million, AVERAGES about 4 picks, 2 fumbles, and 1 TD per season. Not saying either guy is worth their contract, but if I were going to put money on one of them it would be Hall because he has the capability to singlehandedly win my team games. I think Al Davis might have inflated the going rate by giving Asomugha the 15 million a year contract. He is now being paid 12 million a year, which is slightly more than what Revis is being paid. When a corner reaches "shutdown" level, they just stop testing him, and thus the opportunities for interceptions goes way down. Revis still got paid even with a big goose-egg season for interceptions. A corner will face a few hundred passing plays a year. They will rarely even pick off 6 passes in a season, so they better to a good job on those hundreds of other plays they are involved in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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