Natural News:California Raw Food Buyers Club Illegally Raided by Government(updated with NYT article)

[December90]

Don't try and drink unpasteurized milk from the cow it will kill you.

signed

Your government, we are smarter than you are so just shut up and do as you are told.

[zoony]

seeing the right wing wackos and left wing nuts come together on an issue is heartwarming

---------- Post added August-4th-2011 at 09:54 AM ----------

I don't understand the opposition to being allowed to buy Unpasteurized Milk or overlooking the harms of Non GMO crops.

If you want to eat chemicals and food with the nutritional value removed, fine, but why force that down others throat?

Zoony, do you just not know the harms or benefits or do you just assume it's fake?

tell me, what chemicals does the pasteurization process add, and what nutritional value does it remove?

Please link to a reputable scientific study.

[December90]

claiming that un-pasteurized foods are somehow healthier for you is the very definition of 21st century Snake Oil.

It's a taste issue. You know, foodie dorks.

But let's go protest the evil government. Yay

..

Is it really difficult for you to understand the simple phrase

Stop protecting me from me.

If you assume that drinking unpasteurized milk is stupid, then the people have a right to be stupid (clearly exercised in the last presidential election)

[Koolblue13]

seeing the right wing wackos and left wing nuts come together on an issue is heartwarming

---------- Post added August-4th-2011 at 09:54 AM ----------

tell me, what chemicals does the pasteurization process add, and what nutritional value does it remove?

Please link to a reputable scientific study.

Most scientific research is mixed and there is no way your opinion on the topic will change.

Just like with the local honey. Despite people saying it helps and some research supporting it, you will continue to hold onto your opinion of it being snake oil.

Have you ever had grass fed raw milk? It's completely different and actually drinkable, as opposed to store milk.

Do you work in the pharmaceutical industry?

[zoony]

Most scientific research is mixed and there is no way your opinion on the topic will change.

show me where it's mixed, I'm genuinely curious I've only done a few searches and seen 100% of the results agains pasteurization coming from people selling raw milk .

If you really want to get into it, the real answer is that humans should probably not be drinking cow milk, period.

Just like with the local honey. Despite people saying it helps and some research supporting it, you will continue to hold onto your opinion of it being snake oil.]

not an opinion, fact. that you buy it hook, line, and sinker can go one of two ways for you. You can second guess yourself and wonder why you fall for every single conspiracy theory out there and take a look in the mirror and address your cognitive process, or you can stick your fingers in your ear and say nanananana over and over.

Next to Ken you're the most gullible member on this site.

Have you ever had grass fed raw milk? It's completely different and actually drinkable, as opposed to store milk.

Do you work in the pharmaceutical industry?

Good Lord. I think we're done here.

[Koolblue13]

I'm hardly a CT. I do like holistic medicine, but that's only because I've seen it work time and time again.

I agree about drinking milk not being healthy anyway. No animal is designed to drink milk after the baby stage, not even cats.

And I would hardly consider myself gullible, simply because I don't always follow the herd. In fact, I would consider that the opposite.

[twa]

If you really want to get into it, the real answer is that humans should probably not be drinking cow milk, period.

.

What's your feelings on human milk?

[dockeryfan]

tell me, what chemicals does the pasteurization process add, and what nutritional value does it remove?

Please link to a reputable scientific study.

Yeah, I made the same mistake. He's talking about genetically modified food. Not raw milk.

And this business about a link to reputable study is a crock.

NIH tells you that omega-3 fatty acid supplementation is likely ineffective for type -2 diabetes. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/993.html

Talk to any nutritionist, or anyone who works with the population and they will tell you it has an effect. No studies, mind you. But they still recommend their diabetics supplement with omega-3. So lets get real about this reputable study nonsense. No reputable study to me (many times) means no reputable study - YET. The theory is sound as to how omega-3 can affect cortisol levels which would affect blood sugar. Just no study.

As to what pasteurization would remove, any enzyme would be destroyed with pasteurization. The question remains if those enzymes even help us at all. But pasteurized milk IS different, without a doubt. If you pasteurized mother's breast milk, all the immunoglobulins would be destroyed, and the kid would get no passive immunity from the mother's milk. Here's a study from the 80s regarding preemies on pasteurized mother's milk vs non pasteurized mothers milk. They thrive differently. Theory? That the destruction of lipase changes these infants ability to absorb the fat.

I don't feel one way or the other, to be honest, but I absolutely hate it when people get all uppity about how it is no different, when clearly it is. Is it more nutritious? I don't know. But neither do you or they.

EDIT- Here's the link to the breast milk pasteurization study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3514832

[Koolblue13]

Bail for Stewart is set at $123K, Bloch at $60K, and Palmer at $121K. To that, Jenny wrote: "For a little perspective, just a few days before this raid, a woman was arrested for pulling a stranger's baby out of its carriage, slamming it into a metal wall and attempting to eat its arm. Her bail was set at $30,000.

Taken from a fb page. If those numbers are correct for selling milk to other adults, that's crazy!

[Special K]

Bail for Stewart is set at $123K, Bloch at $60K, and Palmer at $121K. To that, Jenny wrote: "For a little perspective, just a few days before this raid, a woman was arrested for pulling a stranger's baby out of its carriage, slamming it into a metal wall and attempting to eat its arm. Her bail was set at $30,000.

Taken from a fb page. If those numbers are correct for selling milk to other adults, that's crazy!

Everyone is trying to minimize this by saying it's just "selling milk."

The reason for the raid is that this establishment DID NOT HAVE THE PROPER PERMITS/LEGAL AUTHORIZATION to be selling these products. They were BREAKING THE LAW. The pasteurization/non-pasteurization debate and its nutrition value are clouding peoples' opinions of this issue.

And seriously, we are posting **** from facebook as evidence? Good Lord.

[Koolblue13]

You're right, $123,000 bail for not having a permit and having guns drawn on you makes a ton of sense.

Good thing they took those dangerous monsters off the street, so they don't push the milk on consenting adults.

[Special K]

You're right, $123,000 bail for not having a permit and having guns drawn on you makes a ton of sense.

Good thing they took those dangerous monsters off the street, so they don't push the milk on consenting adults.

Do you know the legal statutes in the state of California, or at the federal level, pertaining to this specific infraction of the law? I'm going to assume no since you're getting your facts from biased blogs and social media outlets like facebook. Don't worry, I don't either, but I'm not going to get on a soap box about big government injustice until I know the FACTS of the case. There are likely multiple laws being broken and warnings NOT HEEDED by establishment owners that led to a raid of this nature. There are a lot of freaking lawyers working for the USDA and FDA and they don't go around performing raids willy nilly. You claim this is just about "selling milk" when in fact, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You do not know the facts and are jumping to conclusions based on hype perpetuated by blogs and FACEBOOK. Get a grip.

[twa]

If they make enough laws and regs you inevitably break them(whether by choice or ignorance)

No skin off my back,the losers helped create the hell there.

[Koolblue13]

So, thinking that a person should spend 6 years in prison for not having permits and selling milk, is not having a grip? Okay.

[PeterMP]

EDIT- Here's the link to the breast milk pasteurization study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3514832

With respect to premes there appear to be a number of studies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21707744

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16061595

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21330996

[Henry]

If they were supposed to have a permit to sell something and they were selling that something without the permit and then they got in trouble for it, I'm not gonna cry for them. Sorry.

This is America. If you think the law is stupid, fix the law. Otherwise don't complain if you get in trouble for breaking it.

[Special K]

As to what pasteurization would remove, any enzyme would be destroyed with pasteurization. The question remains if those enzymes even help us at all. But pasteurized milk IS different, without a doubt. If you pasteurized mother's breast milk, all the immunoglobulins would be destroyed, and the kid would get no passive immunity from the mother's milk. Here's a study from the 80s regarding preemies on pasteurized mother's milk vs non pasteurized mothers milk. They thrive differently. Theory? That the destruction of lipase changes these infants ability to absorb the fat.

I don't feel one way or the other, to be honest, but I absolutely hate it when people get all uppity about how it is no different, when clearly it is. Is it more nutritious? I don't know. But neither do you or they.

EDIT- Here's the link to the breast milk pasteurization study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3514832

I don't really care one way or another regarding pasteurization. I am allergic to milk products and drink and eat soy products instead. Even if I wasn't allergic, I wouldn't care.

With respect to the debate of raw mother's breast milk to feed a baby, yes, there are numerous studies indicating that raw breast milk is better for an infant as they begin life and develop their immune system. That's why those in public health encourage breast feeding for the first six months of life prior to introducing formula and/or solid foods...even even then, continue breast feeding intermittently for the rest of the year and even more.

That being said, I believe there is a difference between needing raw milk as an infant to receive essential nutritents for development and passive immunity and needing it as an adult. Maybe unpasteurized milk is better, maybe it's not. Thing is, there are laws in place based on valid scientific research and the advice of seasoned advisory committees to protect the public. Are these laws perfect? Of course not. It's a fluid situation with laws being looked at and ammended all the time. However, just because a person, or a group of people don't agree with a law based on their personal beliefs does not give them the right to blatantly break the law and it does not mean they are not going to be cracked down upon by authorities.

[dockeryfan]

If they were supposed to have a permit to sell something and they were selling that something without the permit and then they got in trouble for it, I'm not gonna cry for them. Sorry.

This is America. If you think the law is stupid, fix the law. Otherwise don't complain if you get in trouble for breaking it.

Yes, I agree. They broke the law just because they wanted to. Hard to feel sorry for them. But zoony seemed to be going on a raw milk is quackery tangent, and it got under my skin a little. Even if I've never even tasted raw milk or had a big desire to.

[Enter Apotheosis]

Yes, I agree. They broke the law just because they wanted to. Hard to feel sorry for them. But zoony seemed to be going on a raw milk is quackery tangent, and it got under my skin a little. Even if I've never even tasted raw milk or had a big desire to.

Any statement that indicates that raw milk is outright better for you than its pasteurized counterpart is effectively quackery and snake oil, though. There's no scientific basis for that specific claim whatsoever.

[dockeryfan]

Any statement that indicates that raw milk is outright better for you than its pasteurized counterpart is effectively quackery and snake oil, though. There's no scientific basis for that specific claim whatsoever.

I love when people don't read the thread. It's like groundhog day.

[zoony]

dock, just so you know my actual views on pasteurization, I think states are overall too strict. But to Henry's point, there are right and wrong ways to go about getting that changed in a democracy.

I am a bit of a foodie dork, and I would love to purchase high quality French stinky cheese. I can't. And that sucks.

However, I also think that with the state of the food industry in this country, and the overall American approach to food, forced pasteurization saves a lot of money and lives. France and Spain? Yah, they don't need laws. And it bugged me that you sited Europe as an example of how it could be.

(and then it REALLY bugged me when someone popped off about the Amish )

[dockeryfan]

However, I also think that with the state of the food industry in this country, and the overall American approach to food, forced pasteurization saves a lot of money and lives. France and Spain? Yah, they don't need laws. And it bugged me that you sited Europe as an example of how it could be.

(and then it REALLY bugged me when someone popped off about the Amish )

Well, my point is that most people think it's really unsafe, when in reality it isn't. Not like people think, anyway.

CDC compiles stats on foodbourne illness. It's called Foodnet. It tracks about 15% of the population in 10 states or 46 million people. Well if I'm reading this right, in 2007 in a one week time, 3% of the people they surveyed drank raw milk.

http://www.cdc.gov/foodnet/surveys/FoodNetExposureAtlas0607_508.pdf

So it's many more consumers than we think of for raw dairy. They just don't get sick in the numbers people think they should. If it is handled properly, you're not at a great risk.

They make it seem like everytime you drink raw milk you are putting your life on the line. That just isn't the case. The vending machines are a great example. Look, they aren't the cleanest I'm sure. But people are not getting drastically ill. They just aren't.

[zoony]

They make it seem like everytime you drink raw milk you are putting your life on the line. That just isn't the case. The vending machines are a great example. Look, they aren't the cleanest I'm sure. But people are not getting drastically ill. They just aren't.

I don't have that opinion. I would have no problem drinking raw milk from a artisinal producer or from the family farm.

However, I also don't have any illusions about the dairy industry in this country. I've toured milk plants and industrial milking farms. DISGUSTING. And it's what Americans want. Whatever is cheapest at Wal Mart. That doesn't apply to the French or the Amish or most likely to the 3% you reference who are probably farmers or similar.

We'd be fighting several billion in additional medical bills annualy without pasteurization laws in this country.

[Koolblue13]

Around here, in PA and NY, soon to be NJ too, the small farms are allowed to legally sell raw milk directly to consumers. They also have some great hand crafted cave aged cheeses too.

I agree that they broke the law and didn't have some permits. It's still excessive to draw guns on a raw milk dealer and put them away up to 6 years, especially since it is legal in so many places.

Also, good quality cheese and milk costs more money and you aren't going to be seeing it sitting on grocery store shelves for weeks at a time. Pasteurizing milk, is the equivalent of adding unnatural preservatives to bread. IMO

[zoony]

I agree that they broke the law and didn't have some permits. It's still excessive to draw guns on a raw milk dealer and put them away up to 6 years, especially since it is legal in so many places.

There is a lot more to consider when formulating policy. "They over-reacted" is probably the best feedback you want to hear if you're a policy planner in government.

What you don't want to hear above all else is "inconsistent (i.e. racist)" or "officer injured". you're looking at a very broad issue thru a narrow lens.