CNN: Actually, that's not in the Bible

[Koolblue13]

You usually post like you're responding to something in an alternate reality, anyway.

First of all, try reading some of your posts. Second, the sky is awesome in my world.

[China]

First of all, try reading some of your posts. Second, the sky is awesome in my world.

I don't know, having the sky "breathe" might freak me out a little bit.

[Koolblue13]

yeah, that's weird alright.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Something that may help in this discussion is a change of a word, instead of saying "believe in one God" or "believe in other gods", maybe it would be more accurate to say, "worship one God". The commandment "have no other gods before me" was about trying to fill up the throne room of God with other gods. Think about what gods would look like all lined up on a mantle over the fireplace, God doesn't want them in His presence. This also came to pass that God/YHWH becomes understood as the "one true God".

It should also be noted that if you read the Old Testament, particularly the books of Moses, there is a movement from "There are other gods and we worship this one....to there are other gods but ours is the greatest....to there is only one God....." The Bible never explicitly says there areother gods, but there is an acknowledgment that othere people exist and they worship other gods and those gods might have some power.

[AsburySkinsFan]

It should also be noted that if you read the Old Testament' date=' particularly the books of Moses, there is a movement from "There are other gods and we worship this one....to there are other gods but ours is the greatest....to there is only one God....." The Bible never explicitly says there areother gods, but there is an acknowledgment that othere people exist and they worship other gods and those gods might have some power.[/quote']

I would agree with everything here.

[Koolblue13]

I never knew the bible talked about other gods. Interesting.

[AsburySkinsFan]

I never knew the bible talked about other gods. Interesting.

Never in a positive manner; Ashera and Ba'al are among the leading gods discussed mostly in terms of the prophets calling the people to abandon the worship of them. Moloch is another, child sacrifice by the early Canaanite clans are usually the one's dabbling here.

[19Skins72]

Dammit Jumbo, now I can't get People are Strange out of my head. >.<

[Koolblue13]

Never in a positive manner; Ashera and Ba'al are among the leading gods discussed mostly in terms of the prophets calling the people to abandon the worship of them. Moloch is another, child sacrifice by the early Canaanite clans are usually the one's dabbling here.

So, a God only exists if people give worship to it?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I never knew the bible talked about other gods. Interesting.

There is also an interesting little story in Acts 17 about Paul in Athens.

16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was greatly distressed to see that the city was full of idols. 17 So he reasoned in the synagogue with both Jews and God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there. 18 A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. 19 Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? 20 You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” 21 (All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)

22 Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. 23 For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship—and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else. 26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands. 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. 28 ‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’[a] As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’

29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill. 30 In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

32 When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.” 33 At that, Paul left the Council. 34 Some of the people became followers of Paul and believed. Among them was Dionysius, a member of the Areopagus, also a woman named Damaris, and a number of others

At this point, Christians believed that their God was not only the only God but would judge everyone whether they were Jew, Christian, or Pagan.

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 03:15 PM ----------

So, a God only exists if people give worship to it?

Well, from a Christian perspective, no other gods exist. There is only one. The Jews evolved into that view before the Christians ever existed as well.

The Romans and Greeks did not believe this. Hence, the "Unknown God" in Paul's story.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So, a God only exists if people give worship to it?

That's a stretch, a "false god" would only exist as a "false god" as people worship it. God/YHWH, the One True God is pre-existent and not dependent upon anything or anyone, this is in stark contrast to the Greek gods as portrayed in Clash of the Titans whereby the gods received power from worship. In Judeo-Christian theology God/YHWH us the only necessary being.

[Koolblue13]

That's a stretch, a "false god" would only exist as a "false god" as people worship it. God/YHWH, the One True God is pre-existent and not dependent upon anything or anyone, this is in stark contrast to the Greek gods as portrayed in Clash of the Titans whereby the gods received power from worship. In Judeo-Christian theology God/YHWH us the only necessary being.

But if there are several gods around, what makes yours the real god? Why isn't a god a god?

[pointyfootball]

Faith ... as small as a mustard seed.

[JMS]

IMO the numbering is irrelevant as long as the content is consistent..

You see I find the inconsistencies facinating.

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/bible%20studies/10%20commandments.htm

Using the jewish commandments as the guide or key..

Jewish ------ Catholic --------- Protestant

1 --------- 1+2 --------- 2

2 --------- 3 --------- 2 (*) + idolitry

3 --------- 4 --------- 3

4 --------- 5 --------- 4

5 --------- 6 --------- 5

6 --------- 7 --------- 6

7 --------- 8 --------- 7

8 --------- 9 --------- 8

9 --------- 10a (*) ------9

10 --------- 10b --------- 10

I think differences either omissions or additions are significant. Jewish 10 comandments are numbered different true.. but each version of the 10 commandments are different independent of numbers based upon priorities of the groups involved.

The first commandment for Jews and Catholics is " I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt." That does not appear in the version of the 10 commandments associated with the protestants; The Protestants who have traditionally been more concerned with Idolitry than Catholism spends this extra space (commandment) on an anti idolitry commandment #2 "You shall not make unto you any graven images."

Catholic's who have rather extensive history in creating statues and images which we pray too... ( saint's, Mary, etc.. ) we drop boh of the Protestant anti idolitry commandments #1 and #2..

We do not have either of the first two commandments appearing on the Protestant side... #1 "You shall have no other gods but me" #2 You shall not make unto you any graven images.

( jews only have the first ).

Catholics evidently more concerned with infidelity and single marraiges take up their extra commandment saved on idolitry So our commandments differ from the Protestant commandments in #1 we keep the first which identifies God as the God of Israel who took the jews out of Egypt; #2 we spend our last commandment on what would seem a redundent commandment...

"You shall not covet your neighbor's wife." redundant because all three groups have the commandment "You shall not commit adultery." but Catholics add the covet clause..

The big difference here is Catholics who were recruiting in times of less conformity regularly converted groups who lived in pleural marriages.. So we had to close that loophole by identifying "wife" singular. Likewise the Catholic omissions of the idolitry clauses gave them a leg up in recruting barbarians who invaded western europe as Rome Fell. These men wore tokens of their gods on them in battle... One big Catholic recruiting ploy was to replace the pagan tokens with representations of Christianity... Medals, Sculptures etc.... Recruiting pitch....Your God is weak, fight under the medal of our god and you will vanquish your enemies... went over like barn fires.

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 02:53 PM ----------

But if there are several gods around, what makes yours the real god? Why isn't a god a god?

I think originally jews were pluristic in believing in many gods. The Bible has many refferences to other gods.... I think that has fallen away and Jews, and Christians do not believe in many gods anylonger... Coarse we disagree among each other what constitutes preying too and a god...

Why do we believe our god is superior.. Well Mosses and the Ten commandments tell us so.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Again, to be clear, Jews and Christians (and Muslims, I think, but don't quote me) do not believe that any other gods exist or have ever existed. So, it's not question of Yahweh being superior. He is the only God that is or was.

The Jews did take some time in coming to this understanding according to scripture.

[JMS]

It should also be noted that if you read the Old Testament' date=' particularly the books of Moses, there is a movement from "There are other gods and we worship this one....to there are other gods but ours is the greatest....to there is only one God....." The Bible never explicitly says there areother gods, but there is an acknowledgment that othere people exist and they worship other gods and those gods might have some power.[/quote']

Yes the pleurality of early Jews seems to have been consigned to history around the time of the first Diaspora..... Pleurality of early Christans was side stepped by adopting the Trinity... One god three god heads. Currently there is a controversy among Christians having to do with multiple gods....Catholics pray to saints and the virgin Marry. We have statues to them and we prey to them. We do this without thinking of them as gods though. Some protestant groups have equated this to plural gods.. In general protestants don't do this... the Protestant emphasis on "sola scriptura, solus Christus, soli Deo gloria", among others kept the honoring of Mary to a minimum and Protestant teaching about Mary coterminous with her short part in scripture and creeds.

Likewise Orthodox Christians don't even allow statues even of jesus, in their churches opting instead for icon's to avoid the apperance of idolitry.

Moslems of coarse believe it is against their faith to have any representation of any living thing as akin to idolitry.. even animals...

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 03:17 PM ----------

Again' date=' to be clear, Jews and Christians (and Muslims, I think, but don't quote me) do not believe that any other gods exist or have ever existed. So, it's not question of Yahweh being superior. He is the only God that is or was.

The Jews did take some time in coming to this understanding according to scripture.[/quote']

And yet the commandment include the phrase "You shall have no other gods but me." which can and has been interpreted is several ways... One way is, as their are other gods, but it's forbidden to worship them. but again that's all in the passed.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

but again that's all in the passed.

What is passed, is pro-log.

(Join the Pro-Log Party today!)

[AsburySkinsFan]

But if there are several gods around, what makes yours the real god? Why isn't a god a god?

In Judeo-Christian theology the potential existence of other gods is irrelevant because we are worshipers of YHWH and as such we do not worship other gods, because it is YHWH who has delivered us.

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 03:43 PM ----------

You see I find the inconsistencies facinating.

http://www.biblicalheritage.org/bible%20studies/10%20commandments.htm

Using the jewish commandments as the guide or key..

Jewish ------ Catholic --------- Protestant

Again, this is a lot of talk for something that is rendered moot when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment is;

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

Notice that he doesn't even mention any of the 10 Commandments.

[JMS]

In Judeo-Christian theology the potential existence of other gods is irrelevant because we are worshipers of YHWH and as such we do not worship other gods, because it is YHWH who has delivered us.

---------- Post added November-29th-2012 at 03:43 PM ----------

Again, this is a lot of talk for something that is rendered moot when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment is;

Notice that he doesn't even mention any of the 10 Commandments.

That is the first time I've heard any argument asserting the 10 commandments were irrelevant or moot for Christians, even protestants.. But it does tie into my original point when Theibar asserted in post #41 that memorizing the ten commandments and a simple meal prayer was a good place to start in understanding the scriptures, that which ten commandments you memorize is kinda important cause there are a few versions out there and they each stress what individual groups have historically found important while underemphasis other things.

[AsburySkinsFan]

That is the first time I've heard any argument asserting the 10 commandments were irrelevant or moot for Christians, even protestants.. But it does tie into my original point when Theibar asserted in post #41 that memorizing the ten commandments and a simple meal prayer was a good place to start in understanding the scriptures, that which ten commandments you memorize is kinda important cause there are a few versions out there and they each stress what individual groups have historically found important while underemphasis other things.

The point is not that they are irrelevant, the point is that the entirety of all 600+ commandments are specific ways that those two commandments are lived out. If you want to know what all of God's commandments are all you have to do is understand the two Jesus quotes.

[JMS]

If you want to know what all of God's commandments are all you have to do is understand the two Jesus quotes. .

And yet many Christians believe their faith informs them on Gay Rights, Women's health issues, Patriotism (for and against), Constitutional issues, School curriculum, temperance, science, ethics and even who they vote for..

So clearly "knowing" God's will for us, for almost all Christians, go far beyond two Jesus quotes.

[AsburySkinsFan]

And yet many Christians believe their faith informs them on Gay Rights, Women's health issues, Patriotism (for and against), Constitutional issues, School curriculum, temperance, science, ethics and even who they vote for..

So clearly "knowing" God's will for us, for almost all Christians, go far beyond two Jesus quotes.

Jesus disagreed and said as much. The flaw in your statement is that you start by saying "many Christians" and then ending with "knowing God's will". Those two commandments are the complete summary of ALL of God's will regardless of how poorly many Christians apply them in their lives.

[Koolblue13]

In Judeo-Christian theology the potential existence of other gods is irrelevant because we are worshipers of YHWH and as such we do not worship other gods, because it is YHWH who has delivered us.

.

Not being a smart ass, but I have no idea what any of this means. YHWH? Delivered?

[AsburySkinsFan]

Not being a smart ass, but I have no idea what any of this means. YHWH? Delivered?

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton which is the four Hebrew consonants used in the divine name without the vowels (because it was intentionally mis-voweled to prevent accidental speaking). Typically when I'm in a discussion about other potential dieties and religions we use YHWH (Yahweh) in order to differentiate and to avoid confusion between God and god.

Delivered specifically refers to the work God did for the Hebrews in Egypt which is specifically cited by God in the giving of the 10 Cimmandments.

“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Exodus 20:2)

This then continues on into the new covenant where YHWH again delivers us from captivity to sin and death.

[Koolblue13]

YHWH is the Tetragrammaton which is the four Hebrew consonants used in the divine name without the vowels (because it was intentionally mis-voweled to prevent accidental speaking). Typically when I'm in a discussion about other potential dieties and religions we use YHWH (Yahweh) in order to differentiate and to avoid confusion between God and god.

Delivered specifically refers to the work God did for the Hebrews in Egypt which is specifically cited by God in the giving of the 10 Cimmandments.

This then continues on into the new covenant where YHWH again delivers us from captivity to sin and death.

Everywhere is the land of slavery though and not being able to say a word? Doesn't that sound a little "dated"?