A Closer Look at 2011 defensive Prospects

[bhi4582]

I've been doing tons of research on mock drafts and player evaluations. The more I read them, I see we have the worst draft position. The top 9 are pretty much locked down. No matter what mock or board you read, the top 9 are consistent. It's Fairly, Bowers, Peterson, Green, Gabbert, Dareus, Miller, Amukamara, and Quinn. If any of those players fall to us, we must draft them. I know we don't particularly need CB but if Amukamara is there, we draft him. He's that good. So that leaves us with the best of the rest. I'll leave it up to Shanny and company to do their thing but if we can trade down (I know it's very difficult) I'd do it. Hopefully the rookie wage scale that's likely to pass will help us in this matter. The next 10 are pretty much a crap shoot. Lots of positions of need for us. Lots of 3-4 DE's and OLB's. I'd even be happy with trading down and getting Julio Jones or Pouncey. The point is the difference from 10 - 20 is very small.

[Soup]

Peterson is the best Defensive player coming out some people even have him as the number 1 prospect coming out of college. I think its aj green but whatever.

Fairley is the best Dline. He showed another level in the BCS championship game. Unbelievable upside to him. Plug in any game this season and you will see him destroy and blowup an oline at least a couple of times in each game.

I'm mixed on Bowers, he can be the next peppers or he can be the next vernon gholston. He has an amazing bull rush and can be a great run stopper. Pure Power but I worry he's a one year wonder.

Von Miller has the fastest edge rush I've seen out of all the OLBs or any DLs for that matter. He's lazy in converage and tackles. I've seen him whiff on a LOT of plays. But this guy is Blazing fast and can split double teams on speed alone. Doesn't have a lot of moves and tends to over pursue leading to RBs running right by him or big chunks on screen plays.

He's the type of player that has all the tools to be a great player but seems to only play when he wants to.

Dareus, I thought he was the best Dline coming out because of his versatility but Fairley's bowl game changed my mind. Dareus, can play DT or DE in a 3/4 or 4-3. He's better suited for a DT in the 4-3 but can have an impact as a DE in the 3-4. People like his upside, he's just an overall solid Dlineman.

My Man Crush is Quinn, this guy is orkapo 2.0, he's just a great rusher. Combine Quinn with Orakpo and we would have one of the best edge rushing combos in the NFL. The guy is solid in coverage and very athletic. Not afraid to really get in and tackle players, I've seen one arm take downs and plenty of diving tackles. He won't let anyone by him that's for sure. He's another orkapo

Those are my tops. I'm hoping Quinn falls right to us at 10. Crossing my fingers

[Commander Adama]

I like Von Miller.

[Going Commando]

Again, nothing in the Senior Bowl suggested POA was going to be an issue... And keep in mind he'll gain weight on any NFL team that selects him. Not to 260 or anything... But 245, 250 is realistic.

Agreed. He's stronger than he looks. 34" arms too. Run defense is secondary to pass rushing ability, and what he's lacking in his ability to anchor and play containment I think he makes up for in his ability in coverage and pursuit. Several different sources have mentioned he has solid potential in coverage.

---------- Post added January-31st-2011 at 09:30 PM ----------

Jordan was a monster all year, and he put up stats from the 5-tech that stand up against the other 4-3 DTs in this class. I like him well before the senior bowl. Heck, I'd put Watt above Clayborn. Clayborn is way overrated IMO.

As for Miller, he has size concerns, but you know he is going to produce like he did for multiple years, and has off the charts intangibles and character.

On the other hand, you have Quinn who has elite measurables, but has really only had one big season, and has some lingering questions about his maturity.

I am wary of guys who's greatest attribute are their physical numbers.

I would put Watt ahead of Jordan just behind Dareus and Fairley. He is something else. I think he's only a hair less talented than Dareus and I think he's already a better pass rusher than Dareus is.

I agree about ranking Miller ahead of Quinn. Miller has three years of solid to elite production whereas Quinn has only one. Otherwise the speed and frame are fairly comparable. Quinn is stronger and a bit thicker, but it's not an earth-shattering difference. I don't think Quinn has character problems though. He seemed pretty clean cut when I looked him over during the summer and the agent fiasco was the only thing that came up. I can't ignore it for Dareus and kill Quinn for it.

I would be a bit worried about that medical history though. He had a brain tumor and brain surgery in high school which needs to be looked into.

[HailRiggoRanger]

I watched a ton of Miller's game, and I don't understand the fascination with Miller...especially at the #10 pick. He is quick, he can cover. But, in the end, I would still rather have Chris Wilson playing than him. He often runs himself out of a play and leaves a massive gap where he should have been (think Lavar). He also gets destroyed at the POA; a WR could block him (seriously). He seems to literally disappear once a blocker gets a hand on him. I have no doubt he is related to Warrick Holdman, where sadly Holdman got the good genes in the family. If I'm an OC, I would be chomping at the bit to see Miller out there. I would run at him 85% of the time, and the other 15% of the time would be just to make sure he doesn't get hurt; so, I could keep running at him.

I will lose all faith in the scouting department, if someone convinces Shanny that he is a decent #10 pick.

[Dukes and Skins]

I watched a ton of Miller's game, and I don't understand the fascination with Miller...especially at the #10 pick. He is quick, he can cover. But, in the end, I would still rather have Chris Wilson than him. He often runs himself out of a play and leaves a massive gap where he should have been (think Lavar). He also gets destroyed at the POA; a WR could block him (seriously). He seems to literally disappear once a blocker gets a hand on him. I will lose all faith in the scouting department, if someone convinces Shanny that he is a decent #10 pick.

You do know that like he's pretty much a lock for the top 10 according to many. The guy has one of the most explosive first steps I've seen in a long time and while he doesn't have the best size he's only 235 right now, if he can get to about 245 he'll be in great shape. His job in our scheme would be similar to that of LaMarr Woodley in Pitt which is flats coverage responsibility and then rushing the passer on occasion as well. Would certainly be a great pick for us at #10

[Hitman21ST]

You do know that like he's pretty much a lock for the top 10 according to many. The guy has one of the most explosive first steps I've seen in a long time and while he doesn't have the best size he's only 235 right now, if he can get to about 245 he'll be in great shape. His job in our scheme would be similar to that of LaMarr Woodley in Pitt which is flats coverage responsibility and then rushing the passer on occasion as well. Would certainly be a great pick for us at #10

Assuming Pittsburgh doesn't franchise Woodley (assuming that's still a thing after the new CBA) would you want Miller or LaMarr?

[HailRiggoRanger]

You do know that like he's pretty much a lock for the top 10 according to many. The guy has one of the most explosive first steps I've seen in a long time and while he doesn't have the best size he's only 235 right now, if he can get to about 245 he'll be in great shape. His job in our scheme would be similar to that of LaMarr Woodley in Pitt which is flats coverage responsibility and then rushing the passer on occasion as well. Would certainly be a great pick for us at #10

That's great. I hope some other team is dumb enough to take him...hopefully, it'll be the Cowboys. That'll give us only 10.5 players to go against in our rushing attack.

I don't have any problem with his size. I think he can bulk up. What I have a problem with is his brute strength, motor, sheer aggression at the POA. As I said, he disappears with the slightest contact; he's the Brandon Lloyd of LBs.

He's quick, he may be good for one sack a game. And sure, he may be able to cover a RB in the flat. But, in the end, he's nothing more than a pass rush specialist to me...bring him in on 3rd down. That's not worth a #10 pick.

[Hitman21ST]

That's great. I hope some other team is dumb enough to take him...hopefully, it'll be the Cowboys. That'll give us only 10.5 players to go against in our rushing attack.

I don't have any problem with his size. I think he can bulk up. What I have a problem with is his brute strength, motor, sheer aggression at the POA. As I said, he disappears with the slightest contact; he's the Brandon Lloyd of LBs.

He's quick, he may be good for one sack at a game. And sure, he may be able to cover a RB in the flat. But, in the end, he's nothing more than a pass rush specialist to me...bring him in on 3rd down. That's not worth a #10 pick.

That's still 16 sacks a season...

But I agree with you. He's so hell-bent on getting to the QB, he takes himself right out of every run play. On passing plays, even a semi-mobile QB will scramble right to the spot he vacated and get a few yards. He may have a hell of a motor, but he needs to downshift at times.

[HailRiggoRanger]

That's still 16 sacks a season...

But I agree with you. He's so hell-bent on getting to the QB, he takes himself right out of every run play. On passing plays, even a semi-mobile QB will scramble right to the spot he vacated and get a few yards. He may have a hell of a motor, but he needs to downshift at times.

You hit upon something there. He is hell bent on getting to the QB, that is definitely right! I think he is pushing for 16 sacks a year as a way to overcompensate for his feelings of inferiority about taking on a blocker. He'll go 7-10 yards out of his way to rush the QB while avoiding blockers (thus leaving a tank-size gap where he should have been).

As BLC hated JC, as Bang hates Smith, I also will make it my campaign to ensure the Redskins do not take Miller. We don't need another Holdman/Lavar/Lloyd.

[turlockskinsfan]

After watching Miller play in the senior bowl, he wont be there at 10. What we could do however is trade down, and pick Justin Houston from UGA. This will give us an extra pick in the second or third and we could get Phil Taylor in the 2nd and Locker or Kaepernick as our future qb.

[Hitman21ST]

After watching Miller play in the senior bowl, he wont be there at 10. What we could do however is trade down, and pick Justin Houston from UGA. This will give us an extra pick in the second or third and we could get Phil Taylor in the 2nd and Locker or Kaepernick as our future qb.

If we're going to trade down, I don't think it'll be for an OLB. We might do that for Greg Jones (ILB from Mich. State), but not for an OLB.

[Going Commando]

Assuming Pittsburgh doesn't franchise Woodley (assuming that's still a thing after the new CBA) would you want Miller or LaMarr?

I'd take Woodley. I like Miller a lot, but not more than I like Woodley + Blaine Gabbert or J.J. Watt.

Woodley might make it to the open market. Odds are slim that a great option at QB or DE will.

[Hitman21ST]

I'd take Woodley. I like Miller a lot, but not more than I like Woodley + Blaine Gabbert or J.J. Watt.

Woodley might make it to the open market. Odds are slim that a great option at QB or DE will.

Alex Smith or Vince Young!

[Dukes and Skins]

Assuming Pittsburgh doesn't franchise Woodley (assuming that's still a thing after the new CBA) would you want Miller or LaMarr?

LaMarr simply for the fact then we can take a guy like Gabbert at #10 or a DE like Jordan or trade down for more picks if we wanted to

[ArmchairRedskin]

Here's another scouting report on Von Miller

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2011-01-06/scouting-report-von-miller-olb-texas-am

SN draft expert Russ Lande and War Room scouts break down Texas A&M linebacker Von Miller:

Height: 6-1 1/4

Weight: 243

40 time: 4.56

Current projection: First-round pick

Vs. the inside run: Does a good job of checking to make sure the play is not breaking back to his responsibility, then explodes down the line and has the speed to chase down the play easily. Flashes the strength to take on fullbacks strong at the point of attack and can shed and make tackles. Isn’t as effective when he has to take on and defeat offensive-line blocks. Grade: 7.5 (with 9.0 being the highest)

Vs. the outside run: Has the tools to be excellent against the outside run—both to his side and the opposite side. Does a good job maintaining outside containment. Can take on and defeat tight end blocks and make tackles. Has outstanding range to chase down plays. Once he identifies the play, can accelerate to full speed in a flash. Has the closing burst to consistently finish plays. Grade: 8.0

Blitz/coverage: Is an elite pass rusher who can change games with his ability to defeat blocks and consistently pressure the QB. Shows the ability to beat tackles inside or outside with a variety of pass-rush. Will need to improve his corner-turning technique by dipping his shoulder when a blocker is leaning on him. Has the quickness, agility and smooth athleticism to cover tight ends in man coverage but needs experience in this area. Grade: 7.0

Pursuit/tackling: Has outstanding range to chase down plays in pursuit. Is generally a good tackler, but at times will get a little upright and straight-legged when he gets close to the ballcarrier, which causes him to overrun the ballcarrier and miss tackles. Moves through traffic with surprising ease. Is able to hurdle and work through low blocks and traffic while maintaining speed. Chases down plays with ease. Grade: 8.0

Bottom line: Miller led the country in sacks as a junior and nearly came out for the 2010 draft. He likely would have been a first-round pick a year ago, but he has looked even better this season. He has lined up as both an end and an outside linebacker and has been productive from both spots. He could play in any NFL scheme but is best suited to play rush linebacker in a 3-4 system.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------.

So here we have a report that says he's good at shedding blocks and is strong at the POA. From what I saw, Miller was fine against the run and he has the speed to chase down mobile QB's. I love a guy with a nose for the ball and he seems to have it.

[KDawg]

So here we have a report that says he's good at shedding blocks and is strong at the POA. From what I saw, Miller was fine against the run and he has the speed to chase down mobile QB's. I love a guy with a nose for the ball and he seems to have it.

*taps the microphone*

Is this thing on? Hello?

I've been saying this in the entire thread. The weak POA argument seems almost made up because he's "small". And people saying he's so hell bent on getting to the QB he lets plays blow right by him obviously didn't see the Senior Bowl. He snuffed that one screen out unbelievably well. He knifed passed a blocker and got Hunter. He had several plays like that.

[bedlamVR]

I think the size issue is a comment on how he will cope in the pros when he is against the biggest and the best every game .

That said I really like Millers motor compared to Quinn . I hate the way Quinn give up on almost every play .

[Soup]

I hope scouts see the same thing you guys see with Miller. it mean Quinn will slide right to us with that 10th overall pick. I'd be a happy camper.

fingers crossed

[HailRiggoRanger]

I've been saying this in the entire thread. The weak POA argument seems almost made up because he's "small". And people saying he's so hell bent on getting to the QB he lets plays blow right by him obviously didn't see the Senior Bowl. He snuffed that one screen out unbelievably well. He knifed passed a blocker and got Hunter. He had several plays like that.

The Senior Bowl performance is an illusion. It favors a speedy LB against an offensive team that hasn't game planned, hasn't gelled, and basically is one step behind the defense. The best thing to watch was his performance against LSU. I'm an Aggie fan (and Badger fan), and I was hoping for him to do well. What I saw was a guy literally disappearing from my TV screen as an OL enveloped him on a running play. On other plays, he would go 7-10 yards out of his way to blitz the QB (i.e., avoiding contact). At best, he's a project for a team and certainly not worth a #10 pick.

[Grinder]

The beauty of the 3-4 is that you have the option of sticking a tweener DE in as your OLB as well...no need to use a top ten pick on this position imho. As of now this draft screams trade back and fill holes.

[darrelgreenie]

I would rather see a 3-4 DE in the 1st 2 rounds then an OLB.

[Floodzone004]

I would rather see a 3-4 DE in the 1st 2 rounds then an OLB.

I agree DG. I think a DE would have a bigger impact than an OLB right now. I would love to have either Marcel Dareus or Cameron Jordan at #10.

[Going Commando]

I would rather see a 3-4 DE in the 1st 2 rounds then an OLB.

Agreed.

While great 3-4 OLBs certainly aren't a dime a dozen, equivalently great interior DL are truly rare. When in doubt, follow the rule of 300 when you draft: there are only so many great 300 pound athletes on Earth. By the necessity born of the laws of physics, their position is the rarest to find quality at. It's the same justification used by NBA teams when they draft 7 footers.

Interestingly enough, this class has a lot of special 3-4 DL prospects in that 300 pound range. It'd be a shame to come away without one. You can look ahead towards next year's class and already it looks much weaker than this group.

All of that said, OLBs are kind of what make this scheme work. We'll need to find a solution at LOLB somewhere if we want to become a dominant defense.

EDIT: If we don't find a QB there, I wouldn't mind getting both a DE and an OLB in the first two rounds.

[tdigle]

This is how our big board should look:

1. Bowers

2. Fairly

3. Peterson

4. Quinn

5. Dareus

6. Clayborn

7. Kerrigan

8. Jordan

9. Watt

10. Miller

Has JJ Watt had some miraculous game that I haven't heard of? All mock drafts show him going in the mid- to late-first round. I don't see Dareus, Quinn, and Miller all not being available when we pick, so take one of them and pass on Watt.