Jason Campbell junk time statistics (edited, additional QB's added)

[Mahons21]

sorry if this was already posted, but i didnt see it. here is a look at campbells stats, quarter by quarter. it shows that the 4th quarter is statistically his 2nd worst quarter. he was slightly worse in the first quarter.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/situationalstats?id=CAM375235&season=2009

its like elkabong said, its hard to make an argment that he compiled a significant amount of garbage time stats when he was such a poor 4th quarter QB, even by his own standard.

You're absolutely right, and I conceded that point to Elkabong. An incorrect statement, "Jason Campbell acquired a descent portion of his stats in junk-time." A correct statement, "Jason Campbell acquired a larger % of his TD's than any of the other QB's around the league, that I have looked at it." (Other than maybe Clausen, I still have to go back and check out how I messed his numbers up so badly.)

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 01:02 PM ----------

Fascinating thread. Sorry to be so late to the discussion, and this is a minor point, but the Eagles scored to make it 24 - 31 with 5:32 left in the game. That was the score when Vick took the first snap in the last 5 minutes, so by the OPs definition, there was no garbage time in that game.

I appreciate it. It's nice to know that someone who has no stance on the subject actually fines the premise intriguing.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

sorry if this was already posted, but i didnt see it. here is a look at campbells stats, quarter by quarter. it shows that the 4th quarter is statistically his 2nd worst quarter. he was slightly worse in the first quarter.

http://www.nfl.com/players/jasoncampbell/situationalstats?id=CAM375235&season=2009

its like elkabong said, its hard to make an argment that he compiled a significant amount of garbage time stats when he was such a poor 4th quarter QB, even by his own standard.

The reason it was made into an argument at all is because of fan frustration...Campbell never was a QB to be "hot" right off the bat in games and put points on the board in the 1st quarter. So some fans would get frustrated when he'd start playing better in the 3rd quarter and, thus, started claiming that it was only because the game was out of reach. Seriously, we had people here claiming that the 3rd quarter was "garbage time" when the skins were down by 10 points lol...

[Mahons21]

Still wrong, even if changing it to all of the Panthers' QBs.

It should be 22% of their TDs, not 0%.

I went back and could only find one TD I missed in week 17, do you remember whether the other one is off the top of your head?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I went back and could only find one TD I missed in week 17, do you remember whether the other one is off the top of your head?

Against the Rams, Moore threw a TD with 3:45 to go in the game. They were down 20-3 at the time.

[Mahons21]

Against the Rams, Moore threw a TD with 3:45 to go in the game. They were down 20-3 at the time.

The drive you're referencing began at 6:35, and had 5 plays prior to my the 5 minute mark. Hence the reason, my stats were so off.

(Not directed at any one poster)

In addition I've taken the time to look over Campbell's 2010 stats:

TD% 15, total yardage 7%. Almost the exact same as the year prior. Obviously I must have known this in advance when I "cherry-picked" my premise. lol.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The drive you're referencing began at 6:35, and had 5 plays prior to my the 5 minute mark.

So? lol...The TD was thrown within the parameters you set: down by 2 or more scores with 5 minutes or less left in the game. Not to mention that the drive had more plays in it that occurred after the 5:00 minute mark than prior to it.

Not sure what your point it.

[Mahons21]

So? lol...The TD was thrown within the parameters you set: down by 2 or more scores with 5 minutes or less left in the game. Not to mention that the drive had more plays in it that occurred after the 5:00 minute mark than prior to it.

Not sure what your point it.

The point is pretty simple, the drive you're referencing didn't qualify for my premise, if you'd like to do a study of your own, with a different premise by all means go right on ahead. I didn't want drives that began in the 4th qtr of a 2 score game but ended with a TD at the 4:30 mark to be considered junk, time. Nor did I want to be changing my premise for every game. Therefore I made my premise drives that began with 5 minutes or less to play in a 2 score game.

I'm not arguing that Moore wasn't in garbage time. I'm arguing that he didn't fit my premise, which I in no way claim to be 100% accurate.

Looking back on the OP I realize I didn't state it correctly, but if you look at all drives you'll note they begin with less than 5 minutes, outside of one which I noted.

And this has once again become and annoying back and forth, that really isn't gonna go anywhere. Have a good one Cali.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The point is pretty simple, the drive you're referencing didn't qualify for my premise, if you'd like to do a study of your own, with a different premise by all means go right on ahead. I didn't want drives that began in the 4th qtr of a 2 score game but ended with a TD at the 4:30 mark to be considered junk, time. Nor did I want to be changing my premise for every game. Therefore I made my premise drives that began with 5 minutes or less to play in a 2 score game.

I'm not arguing that Moore wasn't in garbage time. I'm arguing that he didn't fit my premise, which I in no way claim to be 100% accurate.

Looking back on the OP I realize I didn't state it correctly, but if you look at all drives you'll note they begin with less than 5 minutes, outside of one which I noted.

And this has once again become and annoying back and forth, that really isn't gonna go anywhere. Have a good one Cali.

Then your stats, premise and point are even weaker in my opinion. You acknowledge that the TD I mentioned is indeed a TD thrown in "garbage time", but won't count it because several plays of the drive occurred a minute or so earlier? By that definition the Skins could have been down 28-0 with 6 minutes left and JC lead them on a 5 minute drive, throwing a 2 yard TD with 50 seconds remaining in the game...and it would not count as a "garbage time" TD because there were plays that occurred before the 5 minute mark lol ...

[grego]

You're absolutely right, and I conceded that point to Elkabong. An incorrect statement, "Jason Campbell acquired a descent portion of his stats in junk-time." A correct statement, "Jason Campbell acquired a larger % of his TD's than any of the other QB's around the league, that I have looked at it." (Other than maybe Clausen, I still have to go back and check out how I messed his numbers up so badly.)

i see. i'm still not sure what to make of it. partly cuz a little more goes into the whole theory than one would initially think. you have to find QB's who are in a relatively equal amount of situations where they are playing from behind, down by 2 scores, with less than 2 minutes to play in order to get a fair sample.

and of course, if a QB is in those sitations, he's supposed to throw for TD's. if not, then he's probably not very good. but we're essentially saying he's not good when he does it. and how often did we run the ball with a lead? in that situation, he wouldnt compile stats. and the best QB's in the league often play for the best teams, and dont have nearly as many oppourtunities to compile garbage stats cuz they are rarely down 2 scores late.

one thing that always made me curious about campbell was how much his play improved when bingo started calling plays. the chart from football outsiders was amazing. he went from butt-average to top of the league type numbers (performance numbers, not necessarily TD/INT or yard numbers). while i dont think campbell has 'it', i do think his situation stunk and he was only a part of a big problem.

[Mahons21]

i see. i'm still not sure what to make of it. partly cuz a little more goes into the whole theory than one would initially think. you have to find QB's who are in a relatively equal amount of situations where they are playing from behind, down by 2 scores, with less than 2 minutes to play in order to get a fair sample.

I agree whole heartedly, I've asked if anyone know's of a mathematical equation that would allow me to factor the numbers of opportunities that qualified into the final numbers. Don't know of one yet, but I have listed the number of qualifying opportunities at the very bottom of the OP now.

Also interesting to note, Campbell had 5 opportunities last year, 3 opportunities this year, but he has the exact same %'s, still 15% of TD's, and 7% total yardage. However we also must take into account that Campbell did not start the whole year, so 3 qualifying games made up for a larger % of his total games than for most QBs.

and of course, if a QB is in those sitations, he's supposed to throw for TD's. if not, then he's probably not very good. but we're essentially saying he's not good when he does it. and how often did we run the ball with a lead? in that situation, he wouldnt compile stats. and the best QB's in the league often play for the best teams, and dont have nearly as many oppourtunities to compile garbage stats cuz they are rarely down 2 scores late.

I don't mean to say you shouldn't go for TD's when down to scores. My point is that if you're only getting the TD's and leaving 30 seconds on the clock (a required onside kick) you're really not helping the team all that much. I'd prefer a QB who's trying to take some chances down field and actually get the defense back on the field.

one thing that always made me curious about campbell was how much his play improved when bingo started calling plays. the chart from football outsiders was amazing. he went from butt-average to top of the league type numbers (performance numbers, not necessarily TD/INT or yard numbers). while i dont think campbell has 'it', i do think his situation stunk and he was only a part of a big problem.

I don't remember him hitting top of the league on the football outsiders chart, but I'm certainly curious to see it. I do remember him having a great Saints game, and I know that game was pretty high on the OF weekly QB charts.

[pjfootballer]

[grego]

I don't mean to say you shouldn't go for TD's when down to scores. My point is that if you're only getting the TD's and leaving 30 seconds on the clock (a required onside kick) you're really not helping the team all that much. I'd prefer a QB who's trying to take some chances down field and actually get the defense back on the field.

i agree, but our line was one of the worst i've ever seen, they didnt allow much time. but JC didnt throw it that well when he had time either. not that i blame it all on him.

I don't remember him hitting top of the league on the football outsiders chart, but I'm certainly curious to see it. I do remember him having a great Saints game, and I know that game was pretty high on the OF weekly QB charts.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/1/26/1270571/break-it-down-jason-campbells-2009?ref=yahoo

hogs haven did a thing about it using their breakdown. keep in mind, vinny was fired before the third to last game. and it was vinny who brought in sherm and took zorns playcalling away from him.

[ncr2h]

So it looks like QBs of teams that lose a lot end up getting lots of stats in garbage time. Who would have thunk it?

[Mahons21]

i agree, but our line was one of the worst i've ever seen, they didnt allow much time. but JC didnt throw it that well when he had time either. not that i blame it all on him.

Tons of blame to go around. Snyder/Vinny/Zorn/Defense etc.. No one person deserves all the blame.

http://www.hogshaven.com/2010/1/26/1270571/break-it-down-jason-campbells-2009?ref=yahoo

hogs haven did a thing about it using their breakdown. keep in mind, vinny was fired before the third to last game. and it was vinny who brought in sherm and took zorns playcalling away from him.

Nice article, thanks for sharing.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 06:36 PM ----------

So it looks like QBs of teams that lose a lot end up getting lots of stats in garbage time. Who would have thunk it?

Denver has two more games that qualify, but Denver QB's only got 8% compared to Campbell's 15% of their TD's in garbage time. It's more than just the number of games that qualify.

---------- Post added January-13th-2011 at 06:50 PM ----------

By dividing the yardage totals of all qualifying games and then dividing by number of qualifying games I was able to find on average how many yds/TDs each of the QB's gain on average in a -5 2 score game:

Brees: 43.5y, .5 TDs

DEN QBs: 39y, .3 TDs

JC 09: 65y, .6 TDs

WSH QBs: 30, 0 TDs

JC 10: 54y, .7 TDs

CAR QBs: 31 y, .2 TDs

DAL QBs: 67.3, 1 TD**** Might help explain why backup QB Kitna actually had descent stats.

In the last 5 minutes of a 1 score game:

JC: 18.3y, .5 INTs, 0 TDs

WSH 10 Qb: 32.5y, .2 TDs, .2 INTs

So Campbell does better statistically than our QB's in the final 5 minutes of 2 score games, but they're better statistically in the last 5 minutes of 1 score games.

[Rudechain]

Still trying to figure out why your obsessed with a quarterback that is a season removed from the team.

You clearly don't like him so why invest so much time and effort into something you don't like?

It's really baffling that someone would do that. I tell you it's dam near masochistic.

[Mahons21]

Still trying to figure out why your obsessed with a quarterback that is a season removed from the team.

You clearly don't like him so why invest so much time and effort into something you don't like?

I have no problem nor any obsession with the enigma that is Jason Campbell. I enjoy analyzing his performance because I feel his statistics and his play on the field are contradictory to one another.

It's really baffling that someone would do that. I tell you it's dam near masochistic.

While it may be baffling to you that myself and other posters still engage in the same debate we've been having for years. What's baffling to me is why you give a damn what we post about. If you were forced to read it that would be one thing, but you voluntarily chose to click on the link.

Even more baffling you didn't click on it to actually engage in any sort of football related debate, you clicked on it to add what exactly?

[Rudechain]

I have no problem nor any obsession with the enigma that is Jason Campbell. I enjoy analyzing his performance because I feel his statistics and his play on the field are contradictory to one another.

While it may be baffling to you that myself and other posters still engage in the same debate we've been having for years. What's baffling to me is why you give a damn what we post about. If you were forced to read it that would be one thing, but you voluntarily chose to click on the link.

Even more baffling you didn't click on it to actually engage in any sort of football related debate, you clicked on it to add what exactly?

Well sorry for getting your panties in a wad. I thought it was an honest question and your response really seems murky at best as to your reasons or intentions for the OP and follow up commentary. It's just my viewpoint but it seems to me your intent on proving that Jason is not an elite or franchise quarterback and does not deserve to even play for an NFL franchise. ( and I do agree, his is an average quarterback that needs pretty good talent around him to succeed.)

The guy is no longer on the team, and judging by your posts its quite obvious you view his play with distaste. But you find enjoyment analyzing his performance to prove he is not good. No offense Mahons, as I do respect you, but I find it very strange you would invest time and effort in one you dislike and then to take enjoyment engaging in dissection of those performances.

And as for my reasons for following this thread: It's kind of like a train wreck these JC debates. I can't look away. ( and a train wreck is probably the best descriptor for these JC threads too) Plus the fact I am kind of rooting for him to carve himself out a little bit of a career in the NFL despite the vitriolic fervor for his demise it seems some are hoping for.

[Mahons21]

Well sorry for getting your panties in a wad. I thought it was an honest question and your response really seems murky at best as to your reasons or intentions for the OP and follow up commentary.

I like analyzing the performance of Jason Campbell. Could I be more straightforward for you?

It's just my viewpoint but it seems to me your intent on proving that Jason is not an elite or franchise quarterback and does not deserve to even play for an NFL franchise. ( and I do agree, his is an average quarterback that needs pretty good talent around him to succeed.)

No I've had that discussion in tons of threads. I only intended to show the percent of yardage/TD/INTs that Campbell had compared to Redskins QB's this year, as that information was torn to shreds more information was given. With all the information currently given it does appear that Jason Campbell gets more of his statistics in "junk-time" than many other QB's in the NFL.

The guy is no longer on the team, and judging by your posts its quite obvious you view his play with distaste. But you find enjoyment analyzing his performance to prove he is not good.

Not to prove that he is not good, to prove that he isn't as good as his statistics suggest.

No offense Mahons, as I do respect you, but I find it very strange you would invest time and effort in one you dislike and then to take enjoyment engaging in dissection of those performances.

None taken. No offense to you either, but I find it strange you would invest time and effort into analyzing why another posted might debate a given topic.

Which do you find more strange. A poster continuing an old debate that has lasted years, or a poster analyzing why another poster (total stranger) is posting on a given topic?

And as for my reasons for following this thread: It's kind of like a train wreck these JC debates. I can't look away. ( and a train wreck is probably the best descriptor for these JC threads too) Plus the fact I am kind of rooting for him to carve himself out a little bit of a career in the NFL despite the vitriolic fervor for his demise it seems some are hoping for.

I think a lot of people are rooting for Jason Campbell he's a very easy guy to root for, he's not arrogant, he's not really out spoken just comes across as a nice guy that hasn't let the NFL get to his head. I think we'd all agree he's personality is extremely admirable.

[Morneblade]

This. Please.