Any Lawyers Out There? Need Some Law School Advice - EDIT: GWU 2014!

[Predicto]

I disagree. The advantage only really goes to the people that put the work in and WANT to succeed, which is probably the most vital quality to have going to law school. My Kaplan course was over 50% people that were just going through the motions, had zero focus, and skipped classes regularly.

Yep. Nevertheless, because of the course, many of them scored somewhat higher than they deserved. Meanwhile, the kid in rural West Virginia or inner-city Baltimore that is working full time or has no extra cash takes the test cold, and doesn't do as well as he or she deserved.

Result - another kid from Bethesda or McLean getting into law school.

The less well-off folks, for whom the cost of the class actually meant something (like me ), where the ones that got the most out of the course and subsequently crushed the LSAT.

For some this is true. But statistically, the reality is that the classes do improve your score. And not everyone can take one, much less two or three of them.

[PleaseBlitz]

Oh, and Terpskins, congrats.

Couple pieces of advice from someone who just got through what you are about to embark upon.

1. Use the next 2 months to get physically in shape. Law school is a grind both mentally and physically, it's easier if you start from a good position.

2. First year grades are critical. CRITICAL. First year grades determine everything: Your first summer placement, your second summer placement (which is the most important thing relating to getting a job), and membership on a journal. Repeat, first year grades are everything. **** everything else in your life, get good grades as a 1L. I hope i am making myself clear.

3. Law school is a lot like high school, not college. Cliques develop. There is drama. There is even prom. Avoid the **** out of all that stuff. It will try to draw you in. Don't let it. The herd mentality will screw you.

4. Get in a routine. Your weeks need to be 90% the same every week and they need to allow you to finish all of your reading with lots of time to spare. If you are already falling behind before your first rhetoric project is due (or whatever GW calls writing class), you are :hump:ed.

---------- Post added July-6th-2011 at 03:12 PM ----------

Yep. Nevertheless, because of the course, many of them scored somewhat higher than they deserved. Meanwhile, the kid in rural West Virginia or inner-city Baltimore that is working full time or has no extra cash takes the test cold, and doesn't do as well as he or she deserved.

Result - another kid from Bethesda or McLean getting into law school.

For some this is true. But statistically, the reality is that the classes do improve your score. And not everyone can take one, much less two or three of them.

Well, all i can tell you is what i observerd. The guys from rural West Virginia that were working full time and giving up their Saturdays to take the class (again, ME) that sacrificed a lot to get into the class did A LOT better than the ******* twins for whom mommy and daddy paid for the class that spent a decent amount of their time texting and getting told to STFU by me and several others.

People that really want to go to law school have figured out that if they have made the decision to pay six figures to go to law school, they can pay 3 or 4 figures for a prep class to get in. Or they end up going to WVU law or Catholic, or whatever.

[Madison Redskin]

My advice - bust your **** like a ********* your first year. Those first year grades are absolutely critical.

[No Excuses]

Congrats Terpskins! Welcome to the Colonial family.

[Mr. S]

Congrats on your decision! Enjoy the rest of your summer, your first year can be grueling, depending on your attitude/how you approach everything. I took the VA Bar last summer and have enjoyed working since, but it's not an easy market. Going to a school like GW does help to some extent in terms of the alumni base. Those 1st year grades can definitely matter a lot. Either way, enjoy the summer, and study hard once you're in.

[Predicto]

Well, all i can tell you is what i observerd. The guys from rural West Virginia that were working full time and giving up their Saturdays to take the class (again, ME) that sacrificed a lot to get into the class did A LOT better than the ******* twins for whom mommy and daddy paid for the class that spent a decent amount of their time texting and getting told to STFU by me and several others.

People that really want to go to law school have figured out that if they have made the decision to pay six figures to go to law school, they can pay 3 or 4 figures for a prep class to get in. Or they end up going to WVU law or Catholic, or whatever.

I agree that the ones like you in the prep classes that work harder are going to do better than the ones in the prep classes that don't work hard. But those lazy twins that sit there texting are still getting benefits from the prep class, are still going to do better on the LSAT than they deserve, and are mostly going do better on the LSAT than someone who doesn't take the prep classes at all because they are too busy or too poor.

Those busy, poor people would make better lawyers than the lazy twins, but the lazy twins are very likely going to get the few available spots in the class at better schools. And that sucks. And if they don't get those spots, they will probably yell that they were discriminated against, because they got an LSAT score two points higher than some other guy who got in (even though the twins only got that slightly higher LSAT score because they bought a lot of test prep classes and they otherwise suck and would add nothing to the law school class).

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

My advice: get an MBA.

Anyway, 1L is a miserable experience but it gets better.

I'm probably the wrong person to take advice from, because I did law school all wrong. Starting with the fact that I went to law school.

The only thing I can say is don't be me. I've always been the type of person who could listen to a lecture, remember everything, do a little reading, and do pretty well on an exam. I don't think that approach works in law school. I get through, but I was not a grinder. And the grinders in law school flourish. I'm talking about the people who spend eight hours a day briefing the cases. I hated those people mainly because I did not have the self-discipline to do it myself. But they are the ones who get the extra half letter grade on the finals which leads to the slightly better clerking position which leads to the slightly better associates position. And since they already spent three hours a day in class, four hours a day clerking, and eight hours a day writing briefs, they are compeltely prepared to bill 80 hours a week.

My other advice is give yourself a fairly large amount of free time on a Friday or Saturday to decompress and not think about law school. But don't become a binge drinker while doing it. I drank less in law school than in college but the amount that I drank in single sittings was sort of insane. And that seemed incredibly common among my classmates.

[Brad_Edwards_Fan]

Other thing Terpskins... you married/ with someone? I was married when i went through law school (glad to say i still am) but that presented some challenges as well. If so, id be happy to give you the 101 of what i encountered, some things that worked and some things that really didnt work!

[Prosperity]

general 1L advice:

1) have clear idea of why you are in lawl school. Why do you want to be a lawyer? What do you think your daily work will be like? You don't want to pigeon hole yourself into a career you don't want. I can't even really imagine going into insurance defense or employment law, but I know I can have a fulfilling profession as a public defender. Knowing that makes everything about school easier.

Even out of a school like GWU, you probably won't land one of the 160k/year jobs, and even if you do, that lifestyle may be miserable... not to mention they almost always require living in high cost of living areas w/ high taxes (e.g. NYC) so you won't be making THAT much money or living well. (some woman died recently cause she was doing 100 hour work weeks for a month straight at one of the NYC BigLaw sweatshops... heart attack, she was 32)

2) be a genuinely good person, it is its own reward... but also will have secondary benefits because you will be seeing the same people on a daily basis. Don't gossip or bad mouth about people, don't look down at those that do, it's a way to socialize and pass time but should be avoided. Don't talk at people... actually listen and pay attention.

3) figure out what works for you as far as studying, but ALWAYS take a lot of your prof's practice exams.

4) work smart, don't work hard for the sake of working hard, I got mostly A's 1st and 2nd semester but I worked maaaybe 5 hours a week (except for finals month) and skipped half my classes in the 2nd... but I had to spend 1st semester figuring out what was the most efficient way for me to learn. I figured out how to spend my time effectively, and I found that I had a lot of free time. I actually thoroughly enjoyed my 1L year. Example: briefing cases first semester was useful for me just to figure out how to figure out how opinions are structured, how to focus in on the pivotal issues and not collateral BS... second semester I didn't brief a single case outside of class... there is a fairly steep learning curve, but once you get past that curve... it's all gravy. Work out, do community service, chill at the park with your friends. The happier you are, the more focused you can be on the hours that you devote to school work, and thus the more time you have for fun things that make you even happier.

5) don't take a laptop to class, but definitely use one on the final... also learn to type faster. Law school exams are usually open book, fairly open ended, and timed. You almost never lose points for BS, but you gain points for making the right arguments. Generally, the more you type the better your grade... of course, you'll need to know what to type...

---------- Post added July-7th-2011 at 05:08 AM ----------

I agree that the ones like you in the prep classes that work harder are going to do better than the ones in the prep classes that don't work hard. But those lazy twins that sit there texting are still getting benefits from the prep class, are still going to do better on the LSAT than they deserve, and are mostly going do better on the LSAT than someone who doesn't take the prep classes at all because they are too busy or too poor.

Those busy, poor people would make better lawyers than the lazy twins, but the lazy twins are very likely going to get the few available spots in the class at better schools. And that sucks. And if they don't get those spots, they will probably yell that they were discriminated against, because they got an LSAT score two points higher than some other guy who got in (even though the twins only got that slightly higher LSAT score because they bought a lot of test prep classes and they otherwise suck and would add nothing to the law school class).

Money is a barrier but it's not like poor college students cant scrounge together $1500. The real barrier is that people from less wealthy families aren't aware of how ****ing gunnerish people can be. I never studied for the SAT's... I did really well, but I never seriously considered taking one, I knew people that did and I just thought it was bizarre., I got B+'s in high school and I thought that was great cause I was above average to good, what's wrong with that?

I took the opposite approach w/ the LSAT, and it wasn't really the money that was the barrier, but that taking a prep class for a standardized test was not bizarre, but normal, and even expected.

The difference between me now, and me in high school is that I figured out how the system worked. People who are wealthy usually have parents who are educated at prestigious universities (and are thus familiar w/ admissions process)... and the knowledge of gaming the system gets passed down... in fact, it's probably one of the stronger forces within the way middle and upper middle class people teach their children. Getting into a good college is right up there with ethics, family tradition, etc. (as far as important goals they set for their children)