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Non-Capitals '10-'11 Hockey Thread [NHL Draft | Winnipeg Jets reborn]

Sticksboi05

By Sticksboi05
in The Tailgate

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herrmag

herrmag

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Are you interpreting what I said as an excuse for why the U.S. lost miserably? Canadians are so defensive about their hockey dominance.

With all due respect to Canadians, this is their only sport. They have to be protective over it. Not being insulting at all, but think about the US and basketball. When we lost the Gold Medal, we lost our ****.

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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Pumped for the game. Red, white and blue baby!
Either way, whatever, back to the NHL tomorrow.

I'm not defensive. I told you the outcome of this tournament following the Canadian loss to Sweden. I have no need to be defensive.

You have been boasting this whole tournament. And now you're a poor loser. But a loser nonetheless.

And you can suck it too Honorary Hog :)

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Sticksboi05

Sticksboi05

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With all due respect to Canadians, this is their only sport. They have to be protective over it. Not being insulting at all, but think about the US and basketball. When we lost the Gold Medal, we lost our ****.

It was surprising but I didn't really care when we won Gold in 2008 in Beijing. It's just expected so no biggie.

---------- Post added January-3rd-2011 at 10:27 PM ----------

I'm not defensive. I told you the outcome of this tournament following the Canadian loss to Sweden. I have no need to be defensive.

You have been boasting this whole tournament. And now you're a poor loser. But a loser nonetheless.

And you can suck it too Honorary Hog :)

Being cheerful to your nation is not boasting. Boasting would be like "We are going to bury Canada" which I never implied. I said I "hoped" we would.

And yes you are absolutely being defensive. You are implying that I'm saying we could've beat Canada if we'd gotten our absolute best players. I am of full knowledge that players such as Seguin, Hall and Eberle could've been on Canada's roster this year. I'm not making excuses, I was noting that the U.S. has looked underwhelming throughout this tournament.

Now please, go wave that Canadian flag!

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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**** Canada.

And today... the Canadian dollar is par with the American dollar! Yeah!

---------- Post added January-3rd-2011 at 10:35 PM ----------

Hope the U.S./college kids kick the **** out of those CHL wussies!
Psyche. USA will win gold. No way Canada wins with that sieve. They better switch to their other goalie cause Roy is a SIEVE.

Those posts are trash-talking brashness... and nothing to do with national pride. Poor loser.

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Sticksboi05

Sticksboi05

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And today... the Canadian dollar is par with the American dollar! Yeah!

---------- Post added January-3rd-2011 at 10:35 PM ----------

Those posts are trash-talking brashness... and nothing to do with national pride. Poor loser.

"Hope the U.S./college kids" has nothing to do with being a U.S. fan? NCAA nowadays is made of mostly Americans and is generally considered an inferior league to the CHL; I am an NCAA D1 fan so yes I hope they do well against CHL players; that does indeed have to do with America.

Forgot about the second post but regardless Roy is a sieve and the switch to Visentin was absolutely necessary as I said. And no, I'm not a poor loser. All I said was the U.S. probably could've fielded a better team (and specifically noted that it wasn't just the game tonight that made me believe that) and you were like "oh yeah so can we!"

I don't mind admitting that at one point after the Sweden game before Canada switched goalies, I believed and did say the U.S. would win but you can deny all you want, you were being defensive. We know Canada outclasses the U.S. in hockey talent. They have twice as many registered junior players.

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HEavyJumbo85

HEavyJumbo85

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All I said was the U.S. probably could've fielded a better team (and specifically noted that it wasn't just the game tonight that made me believe that) and you were like "oh yeah so can we!"

Who would you have taken that would have been better than what they had? A draft eligible like Grimaldi? A big D like Tinordi (who actually may have stood up for Campbell last night)? Their talent level wasn't even close to last year's team. The drop on D from Carlson and Fowler alone was traumatic. Stepan and Kristo were top end players up front last year and were "replaced" by Palmieri and Coyle who, with all due respect, aren't really comparable players. The leadership didn't appear to be there at all. They had Stepan, Schroeder, Carlson, and Kristo to carry that last year. I wasn't impressed with guys like Leddy, Morin, and Palmieri in that regard, who are supposed to be pros. And what happened to Chris Kreider? This team had the same problem the '08 team had, except they had less talent this year. Their best players were soft and their D was mediocre.

The only issue I had with Canada this year was the insistance that they were underdogs and a "lunch-bucket" crew. When your roster has 15 first rounders+the likely number 1 pick in the upcoming draft+a kid who won a Calder Cup in the AHL last year and got a long look in training camp with the team that earned the President's Trophy last season, it means you have the most top end talent in the tournament. I'm not questioning their work ethic, because they have guys that do work like a "lunch-bucket" crew, but the manufactured and false notion that this team was cobbled together with a group of plumbers with a can-do attitude was always inaccurate.

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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The only issue I had with Canada this year was the insistance that they were underdogs and a "lunch-bucket" crew. When your roster has 15 first rounders+the likely number 1 pick in the upcoming draft+a kid who won a Calder Cup in the AHL last year and got a long look in training camp with the team that earned the President's Trophy last season, it means you have the most top end talent in the tournament. I'm not questioning their work ethic, because they have guys that do work like a "lunch-bucket" crew, but the manufactured and false notion that this team was cobbled together with a group of plumbers with a can-do attitude was always inaccurate.

So the only problem you have with "Canada" this year... is not actually from Canada.... but it's "media"?!?! Reporting from the slant that the team was missing a bonafide superstar or two, on the team this year to count on for scoring -- which is true -- or even a blue-chip goaltending prospect. I think if you asked Canadians before the tournament... any that follow hockey anyways... that "on paper", this isn't the most talented team that Canada has gone into the tournament with.

But winning isn't always about being the most talented team... sometimes it's about having the right chemistry of players. You still have to have talent to win though... any coach will tell you that.

No one was offering up that this team was a "lunch-bucket" crew. Nobody. But the media bias, even in Canada, was that nothing was assured in this tournament..... because this wasn't the most talented team with it's best player on defense (Ellis). But the media didn't delude us into thinking the team didn't have a shot at winning. It just wasn't as assured -- or "expected" -- as previous years.

And if you're a reasonable and knowledgeable hockey fan... is pretty much the truth.

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HEavyJumbo85

HEavyJumbo85

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So the only problem you have with "Canada" this year... is not actually from Canada.... but it's "media"?!?! Reporting from the slant that the team was missing a bonafide superstar or two, on the team this year to count on for scoring -- which is true -- or even a blue-chip goaltending prospect. I think if you asked Canadians before the tournament... any that follow hockey anyways... that "on paper", this isn't the most talented team that Canada has gone into the tournament with.

But winning isn't always about being the most talented team... sometimes it's about having the right chemistry of players. You still have to have talent to win though... any coach will tell you that.

No one was offering up that this team was a "lunch-bucket" crew. Nobody. But the media bias, even in Canada, was that nothing was assured in this tournament..... because this wasn't the most talented team with it's best player on defense (Ellis). But the media didn't delude us into thinking the team didn't have a shot at winning. It just wasn't as assured -- or "expected" -- as previous years.

And if you're a reasonable and knowledgeable hockey fan... is pretty much the truth.

Yeah, sorry, the media is who I was referring to, as it's hard to gauge the feelings of the average Canadian citizens due to my UnitedStatesivity.

Dave Cameron is the guy who used the term 'lunch pail' and obviously the media ran with it, but it wasn't as if there was any real push coming from anywhere else to say that it wasn't the case. The Canadian media was reluctant to suggest that Canada was a favorite because they ended up having to eat their socks after last year's tournament. They downplayed the talent on that roster and set low expectations while simultaneously pumping up the U.S. team to the level of juggernaut, what with their returning 8 players from last years gold medal team including the best goaltender in the tournament.

Scott Burnside tweeted this after the game: "David had nothing on plucky Canadian juniors. 4-1 win vs Goliath-like U.S. squad was upset for the ages. Or not. Same old same old for WJC."

Whether or not the Candian citizens felt that there was a portrayal of a true underdog role for team Canada in this tournament, I don't know, but that's how it was presented here.

And yeah, the pre-tournament slant, while true, was manipulated. Why was a kid like Brayden Schenn who scored 100 in 60 games in the dub last year, made the Los Angeles Kings out of training camp despite a knee injury, was a point a game in the AHL this year on a conditioning stint, and is averaging 2 points a game back in Brandon not considered a blue chip offensive player at the junior level? Why was a kid like Couturier, who won the Jean Beliveau trophy for running the Q last year as a 16/17 year old player not considered a blue chip forward when he's a top 2 lock for the upcoming entry draft? They didn't have a blue chip goalie last year either, Visentin was at least a first rounder unlike Jake Allen. Ryan Ellis is statistically the most productive D to ever play in the tournament and had two prior years of experience. Cody Eakin finished 3rd in the Canadian hockey league in goal scoring with 47 goals behind Eberle and Seguin and ahead of Taylor Hall last year.

I don't know what I'm accomplishing by throwing out numbers, but I just didn't agree with Canada being anything other than the top team before the tournament started and I'm disappointed with the pessimistic and agenda driven journalism that annointed a U.S. team, simply because they won and returned 8, in order to "protect" the Canadian team/fans from experiencing another let down. (Not referring to educated fans there, but not everyone who watches this tournament in Canada is an educated fan.)

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HEavyJumbo85

HEavyJumbo85

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USA Goliath like? Sorry, it was a monumental upset last year for the US to win on Canadian soil, but not the other way around. Canada is supposed to win most of the time. While the US has faired well in the last 30 years in hockey, we are hardly a juggernaut.

Burnside was being sarcastic. Playing off the situation where we were lead to believe that the U.S. team was a heavy favorite and the Canadians were a team low on talent but high on heart.

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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Burnside was being sarcastic. Playing off the situation where we were lead to believe that the U.S. team was a heavy favorite and the Canadians were a team low on talent but high on heart.

I think the Canadian media wants to prop up any opponent and legitimate threat to Canadian supremacy. Canada has dominated for so long... that as soon as another team becomes a threat... they'll prop them up into an instant rival.

Perhaps it's because they're sick of propping up the Russians every single year.... moreso because the Russians haven't been as strong as they've been in the past.

The media is trying to create a rivalry. That's all to take out of it.

In the end, if Canadians had a choice on whom they would prefer to face and beat in the gold medal game.... it's still Russia :) The only motivating factor for this year's game was revenge for the loss in the gold medal game last year.

But ask any Canadian... it's always about playing Russia in the gold medal game :)

But I believe that most Canadians would be thrilled to have Americans continue to develop into a legitimate contender. Probably moreso than Sweden or Finland. The Czechs have fallen off immensely. But I think the Swedes will are getting better every year... and I think they'll be legitimate contenders soon enough.

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 02:39 PM ----------

FYI, I recall from the broadcast the Visentin was a 3rd round pick of the Coyotes. Hardly a blue-chip prospect :-)

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Die Hard

Die Hard

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USA 1 - Sweden 1 (3rd)

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 05:14 PM ----------

Americans take the lead, it's 2-1.

Congrats to the US on the bronze medal... and beating the Swedes. Good victory... and screw the Swedes. First in your pool... and you end up off the podium. Next time... shut the hell up.

2-0 Canada first intermission.

I wish I could take credit for predicting this.... but this is just history repeating itself :)

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herrmag

herrmag

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It's like men vs boys out there. Canada isn't just outplaying, but absolutely beating the **** out of the rooskies.

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 09:22 PM ----------

Holy ****! We've got a game boys!

---------- Post added January-5th-2011 at 09:31 PM ----------

Unbelievable............

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