PFT:: Gradkowski, Campbell conundrum could spark a locker-room rift (MET)

[21Knock_U_Out]

From what I remember correctly from all the Campbell haters last year was that the only stat that matters is win/loss record.........hmmmmmm.............

[Califan007 The Constipated]

For those who didn't watch the game, some quotes on how the Raiders fans saw Campbell's play today...every post on this thread was positive except for one:

I will be the first to say that I thought the guy has sucked a lot over the course of the season, but he impressed me today. He didn't seem timid, but was more confident in everything he did. Maybe this has something to do with him knowing that its his job fully because Bruce is hurt.

Nonetheless, the runs he had today, the flip toss to Bush when he got smacked and the great play-action game he was using all surmounted to a great game and wonderful win. Again, as is the case with all of our wins, it helps when the o-line plays like they did today to help us run, but outstanding job today.

I give my props to Campbell.

Damn right!

I have criticized him this year for his play and have no problem giving him props for his play this game because he deserves it!

Those play action fakes were deadly especially the one where he hit Murphy for 37 yards. That was so good there were Chargers celebrating that they stopped Bush short of the first down!

Good job Campbell, I hope you keep it up!

Campbell proved us all wrong and he also had some key throws that one the game. You gotta love him talking to the players in the huddle and acting like a true leader after the chargers scored, hes becoming more confident and managing the game extremely well. KEEP IT UP Campbell

Campbell may not have had a high numbers game, but he stepped up as a great leader on the field. I'm in no way a lover of Campbell, but it was nice watching him play this afternoon.

Hope he got the game ball. DMC and Bush both had great games as did Reece and the defense. But JC made some great plays when we needed them.

...an interesting side note: In 2 games vs. SD, QB JASON CAMPBELL has completed 41 of 60 passes (68.3 pct.) for 440 yards w/ 3 TDs vs. 0 INTs & 106.3 rating.

Jason was masterful today, now 3 solid games career vs. SD. Some guys just have that knack versus teams. He was solid in his decision making, was accurate, was timely, poised when pressured, making the right decisions with his scrambling and breaking containment and several times, using his legs to extend plays and find a open guy. He was Gannon-esque, how he gave the team a chance for positive yards on almost every play. He owned the offense Jackson installed vs. SD, and his ball handling was a thing of beauty on fakes et., and even masterful on how Bush sold those fakes by plowing into the line of scrimmage.

Jason was stellar today and even fiery when chewing out Ford for lining up wrong and having to burn a time out.

He didn't air it out as much as he could, but that late play fake and long one to Murphy was stellar and the yards he picked up scrambling was nice to see. Seems his confidence is building with Gradkowski out for the season and I hope it continues to build.

Again, numbers are so deceptive in this sport, cause you can have a guy like Peyton Manning go 36/48 for 365 yds and two TD's, but also throw four picks to cost your team the game. Campbell had some bad throws today, but I did sense that he was more comfortable today. The guy never ran the ball like that all year. (Note he did rush for 35 yards on seven carries against Tennessee, but that was a different story.)

Whenever he has been pressured in the pocket this season, he's been indecisive and it would generally result in a sack. Today, he was just decisive and that's what we need of him.

My biggest problem with Campbell all year had been his inconsistency and lack of decisiveness. He definitely didn't have any of those traits today.

Jason had a MASTERFUL game today. The accuracy, the poise, the play action, the scrambling, the improvising, no turn overs.... can't ask for much more.

He best game as a Raider bar none. VERY impressive today. He wasn't carried by others today. He lead today.

Yep, I'm with you. Great game Jason. I've knocked him in the past, but he played his ass off today and played well. Our run game helped, but he looked really good, confident, and managed the hell out of the game.

I was at the st louis game section 112 row 26 seat 8 yellin for bruuuuuuuuuuuuuce to come on the field. Today JC did the damm thing. Good management. Great adapting to the game that flick to Bush b4 he went out for that 1 play. Then the 2 fakes? The cameras were lost the commentary was lost and his td...the DE wasn't even looking when he ran by. Campbell did a great job and he deserves full credit.

With all the mess in here with the QB switcharoo, I just couldn't give up on Campbell entirely, although I had a spurt where I thought Bruce C was the better option to start a couple games. I criticized Campbell but it was mostly for his mistakes. Today he played mistake free football. The stats weren't outstanding and I don't think we should expect Campbell to throw for 300 yards. This was the smartest I've seen any QB play in a while.

The dude was nails today. No doubt about it. When we needed the plays Jason Campbell made them. He got a lot of help from the running game but it was his scrambling, improvising, and throwing on the run that kept drives alive.

He did a helluva lot more than manage the game today.

His stats may say 1 thing, but the guy did come up big for us. His PA was outstanding, especially on the TD run in which the Dolts player that was supposed to contain literally stood as JC ran past him, and on the deep pass to Murphy.

yesss, its crazy to say he had a great game with his stats and alot of people who didnt watch it will probally think he sucked but he played great

[elkabong82]

Califan, that last comment has already happened in this thread a bunch too, lol. That guy called it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Califan, that last comment has already happened in this thread a bunch too, lol. That guy called it.

True lol ...Actually it was that last quote that made me think maybe I should post these here on ES to show that it's not simply "JC Apologists" trying to contort Campbell's performance into more than it was. He really did play well, regardless of the less-than-stellar stat line.

[KingGibbs]

Campbell played one of his best games as a pro IMO. He didn't have the stats, but he did a helluva job managing the game. He sold the play action to perfection sveral times and he absolutely made the Chargers bite hard on that bootleg. Number 90 of the Chargers looked like a complete fool on that play. He just stood there not knowing what the hell was going on when he could've stopped Campbell.

See. Even I can give credit where credit is due.

[tr1]

Campbell played one of his best games as a pro IMO. He didn't have the stats, but he did a helluva job managing the game. He sold the play action to perfection sveral times and he absolutely made the Chargers bite hard on that bootleg. Number 90 of the Chargers looked like a complete fool on that play. He just stood there not knowing what the hell was going on when he could've stopped Campbell.

See. Even I can give credit where credit is due.

Yes, your positive vs. negative JC credit posts after a good game and after a bad game stats-wise is awful. But, I try not to judge everything by stats alone...:rotflmao:

The irony for me is that I see JC as pretty much the same player in Oakland as he was here. Not flashy...sometimes has a great game, but mostly he'll keep you in it if he has support around him.

He's no Brees, Eli or Brady by any means.

---------- Post added December-6th-2010 at 01:35 PM ----------

The best part of JC's year in Oakland is the complete turn around over in the Stadium.

There are guys saying we should have kept him and suck it up to secure the picks.

The irony is overwhelming.

:rotflmao:

[Mahons21]

True lol ...Actually it was that last quote that made me think maybe I should post these here on ES to show that it's not simply "JC Apologists" trying to contort Campbell's performance into more than it was. He really did play well, regardless of the less-than-stellar stat line.

I know you aren't from the area, but the Raiders/Bolts game was one of the 4 o clock games aired here yesterday so most people from ES actually did watch if not all at least a good portion of the game.

Personally I watched the majority of it, but obviously had to start flipping back and forth in the Colts/Cowboys game when things we're heating up.

On to Campbell though. He didn't play a bad game, and he didn't play a good game. He made the occasional play here and there, as any NFL starter should. He had all damn day to throw the ball, anyone who say's otherwise didn't watch more than a few snaps in this game.

If he could replicate this type of performance on a consistent basis, he could be considered a game manager.

When it comes down to it though, he was still the same old Campbell.

-Not very accurate

-Difficulty reading a defense, probably led to him tucking the ball and running however many times he did.

-Usually when a QB's most impressive plays are rushes, it's not a great thing.

[luke1867]

congrats to campbell on the big win today. he was a major factor in the win throwing 10 completed passes. dont let anyone tell you that oaklands 250 rushing yards were the main reason. no no, big JC8 was the man today.

but again, campbell performs ok when oaklands run game is out of its mind. today was another example of the hard truth: campbell can only perform when the run game is completely dominating.

Do you realize that he was himself a huge part of the run game? He had close to 40 yds rushing in the 1st half with 8 yds per carry average. By the time the Raiders were up 21-0, he was the leading rusher on the team. The running game just followed his flawless 1st half performance. The run game did not set up Campbell; Campbell set up the run game.

[Mahons21]

Do you realize that he was himself a huge part of the run game? He had close to 40 yds rushing in the 1st half with 8 yds per carry average. By the time the Raiders were up 21-0, he was the leading rusher on the team. The running game just followed his flawless 1st half performance. The run game did not set up Campbell; Campbell set up the run game.

Holy lord I've heard it all. So you think that Campbell's rushing attack is what setup the rushing game?

[luke1867]

What stats?

Candle was underwhelming today even when the run game racked up around 200 yds.

Skins OL improvement I'd disagree with you. TW is the man, but did you see who else was our LT today? Jamaal Brown would be an upgrade, but he still isn't healthy. And our 3 interior OL have gotten worse. Though maybe we can put something inside that's better next year with Lich, Dock, Monty, and BMW.

Candle put up almost decent stats with us, when a career backup came in 2007 and put up great stats. Said career backup beat Candle again in 2009, despite "the anointed one" getting all the starter reps and attention from his personal trainer / head coach. Just think if we had somebody like McNabb back then.... 2006-2009 in what we should call "the wasted years".

Candle doesn't "have" the Raiders doing anything. He's riding the coat tails of a good running game, just like he did with us first half of 2008. Remember what happened the last game before today, that Candle started?

You are seriously misinformed. Watch the games before you make comment. Campbell has led most if not all of their wins. McFadden had like 18 yards rushing in the 1st half and yet the Raiders were up 21-3. Campbell was the leading rusher in the first half. He got the run game going all by himself. In fact, no matter what anybody says about him, this game Campbell was the man. He was very Cam Newton-esque. And if you did not watch the game, I suggest you refrain from commenting until you do.

[terpskins10]

Do you realize that he was himself a huge part of the run game? He had close to 40 yds rushing in the 1st half with 8 yds per carry average. By the time the Raiders were up 21-0, he was the leading rusher on the team. The running game just followed his flawless 1st half performance. The run game did not set up Campbell; Campbell set up the run game.

Great post. JC was the one who led the team to the 21 points, and the running game came alive after that to keep San Diego from coming back by chewing up time.

[luke1867]

Holy lord I've heard it all. So you think that Campbell's rushing attack is what setup the rushing game?

I don't think. I know. I watch the game. I'm not going to waste my time trying to post links and stats for you. Go do your own homework/research on the game on the first half. Look at Campbell's stats, look at how the TDs came about and then compare them to Mcfadden and Bush, and the entire Chargers running game as well. Then come back to me and tell me who was the leading rusher, and who had the most TDs. Campbell had a rushing TD and a passing TD.

[terpskins10]

Holy lord I've heard it all. So you think that Campbell's rushing attack is what setup the rushing game?

No, that's not what he said. He said, as Campbell was the leading rusher by the time Oakland had 21 points, the running game didn't come alive until Campbell put them in position to chew up yardage and time with his arm and his legs.

He isn't saying Campbell's running softened up the defense for McFadden, lol. Just that the running game didn't come to life and win the game, as people are saying. The game was already heavily in Oakland's favor before the running game came alive.

[TheLongshot]

The irony for me is that I see JC as pretty much the same player in Oakland as he was here. Not flashy...sometimes has a great game, but mostly he'll keep you in it if he has support around him.

He's no Brees, Eli or Brady by any means.

The problem is, here if you are not Brees, Manning or Brady, you must be awful. (never mind that we haven't had a QB that good since Sonny.)

Campbell's biggest assets are that he doesn't make too many mistakes and can make the occasional play for you when you need it. He is not the type of QB who takes over a game all that often. That makes him a solid QB option, given enough weapons around him. He probably will never be looked at as the "sexy" pick at QB, but with him at the helm, the Raiders have won a few games.

The best part of JC's year in Oakland is the complete turn around over in the Stadium.

There are guys saying we should have kept him and suck it up to secure the picks.

The irony is overwhelming.

:rotflmao:

I think people have realized that we probably could have performed equally as poorly with Campbell here, and still have the two draft picks we spent on McNabb to improve the team.

[luke1867]

the best play campbell had was a broken pitch play where he got decked and pitched the ball to bush (i think) for a big gain.

guys, theres a reason that the job was given right back to gradkowski once he healed up. if gradkowski wasnt hurt campbell would still be riding the pine.

and i watched most of the game flipping back between redzone. i saw once nice bomb and his broken pitch, and a million handoffs to mcfadden/bush. he completed 10 passes. i dont know how you can call that anything other than game managing, which everyone has agreed that he can do if the run game works.

its how he succeeded in college, its how he got his 6-2 start here, and its how he has success in oakland. its clear as day.

passizle i feel no need to argue with you, you already admitted last week you're glad we have mcnabb you just dont like the picks given up. thats a fine stance IMO.

Gradkowski was just a Cable protege because he saved Cable's job last year. People in Oakland are mad that JC didn't start the Miami game because it could have ruined their playoff aspirations. He came out flat that game and nearly threw 3 picks. Anyone who thinks journeyman Gradkowski is better than Campbell does not watch the Raiders play period.

[Mahons21]

No, that's not what he said. He said, as Campbell was the leading rusher by the time Oakland had 21 points, the running game didn't come alive until Campbell put them in position to chew up yardage and time with his arm and his legs.

Actually it is what he said, look at his post 562 above he reaffirmed it.

He isn't saying Campbell's running softened up the defense for McFadden, lol. Just that the running game didn't come to life and win the game, as people are saying. The game was already heavily in Oakland's favor before the running game came alive.

That makes no sense. The raiders are a rushing team no matter what, they're going to try and rush the ball. Your logic as follows is that, they were able to rush the ball later in the game because they had a lead... You realize that it's this point in the game where rushing the ball becomes the most difficult, because the defense knows what you're trying to do.

---------- Post added December-6th-2010 at 01:35 PM ----------

I don't think. I know. I watch the game. I'm not going to waste my time trying to post links and stats for you. Go do your own homework/research on the game on the first half. Look at Campbell's stats, look at how the TDs came about and then compare them to Mcfadden and Bush, and the entire Chargers running game as well. Then come back to me and tell me who was the leading rusher, and who had the most TDs. Campbell had a rushing TD and a passing TD.

I don't care about those stupid BS stats. A Qb can open up the rushing attack by throwing bombs down field and bringing men out of the box, a QB CANNOT open up the rushing attack by rushing the ball themselves, this actually brings more people into the box. Furthermore rushing the ball when you have the lead isn't something easy to do, nor is it ideal for a RB. The defense knows what's coming and they stack the box, the fact that the Raiders are still able to run the ball in such situations is a testament to their rushing attack, not Jason Campbell.

[darrelgreenie]

I don't care about those stupid BS stats.....a QB CANNOT open up the rushing attack by rushing the ball themselves, this actually brings more people into the box.

The bolded is a patently false statement.

[Mahons21]

The bolded is a patently false statement.

Please explain then how a QB rushing the ball opens up the rushing game for the RBs.

EDIT: I wouldn't like to hear about some gimmicky college offense, or an option offense. Since such points would be irrelevant, because obviously this isn't what the Raiders ran.

[sjinhan]

Please explain then how a QB rushing the ball opens up the rushing game for the RBs.

it will hold the defenders on the backside from crashing down hard down the line.. can possibly open up cutback lanes...

if you have guys like Vick rolling out in the opposite direction of the run action.. the defenders on the backside MUST honor the roll out.

so it can help the rushing attack.

[darrelgreenie]

Please explain then how a QB rushing the ball opens up the rushing game for the RBs.

I'll keep it short.

A QB that can run keeps the backside contain home.

[Mahons21]

Touche. I still won't agree with the notion that Jason Campbell's rushing game open up the rushing game for McFadden/Bush.

And a strong rushing QB can also bring an extra man into the box.

[ncr2h]

Please explain then how a QB rushing the ball opens up the rushing game for the RBs.

EDIT: I wouldn't like to hear about some gimmicky college offense, or an option offense. Since such points would be irrelevant, because obviously this isn't what the Raiders ran.

By forcing the defensive ends to stay and contain instead of flowing to the ball?

I mean, I didn't watch the game, but it seems to me like you've already come to the conclusion that Campbell sucks and you will contort anything into reaffirming that belief. You can suck and still have a great game, can't you?

[Mahons21]

By forcing the defensive ends to stay and contain instead of flowing to the ball?

They ran one designed roll-out where Campbell rushed the ball... The rest were just scrambles after his drop back.

I mean, I didn't watch the game,

I watched the majority of it

but it seems to me like you've already come to the conclusion that Campbell sucks and you will contort anything into reaffirming that belief.

I don't think he's good, and I don't need to contort anything to reaffirm that belief. I argued against the notion that Campbell "opened up" the rushing attack for Bush/McFadden, and I think most people would agree. Doesn't mean Campbell had a bad game, I already said that in a post which you didn't read because you're jumping into a debate a page late.

You can suck and still have a great game, can't you?

Of course. But if going 10 for 16, for 117 and 1 TD, and rushing a TD is a great game. Exactly how many QB's in the NFL had great games this week? If not HOF worthy.

[darrelgreenie]

The irony for me is that I see JC as pretty much the same player in Oakland as he was here. Not flashy...sometimes has a great game, but mostly he'll keep you in it if he has support around him.

He's no Brees, Eli or Brady by any means.

I hear you.

He's not a playmaker and he's risk averse he's understated.

But, Campbell is an efficient QB.

I'm was actually more impressed w/ Campbell's play when he was here then in Oakland and i've gained more respect for Zorn in the process.

Our OL was a joke with the ever changing rotation of interior OL and Levi Jones @ LT (who i believe is out of the league) and an injured Stephon Heyer playing on 1 leg at RT.

Yet the Zorn/Bingo/Campbell passing game was able to produce a league average level and they were good on 3rd down and in the RZ.

I don't mean the above as a knock on McNabb.

But if Zorn (the OC not the HC)/Bingo had this year's talent he would put out a better passing game.

[luke1867]

Actually it is what he said, look at his post 562 above he reaffirmed it.

That makes no sense. The raiders are a rushing team no matter what, they're going to try and rush the ball. Your logic as follows is that, they were able to rush the ball later in the game because they had a lead... You realize that it's this point in the game where rushing the ball becomes the most difficult, because the defense knows what you're trying to do.

---------- Post added December-6th-2010 at 01:35 PM ----------

I don't care about those stupid BS stats. A Qb can open up the rushing attack by throwing bombs down field and bringing men out of the box, a QB CANNOT open up the rushing attack by rushing the ball themselves, this actually brings more people into the box. Furthermore rushing the ball when you have the lead isn't something easy to do, nor is it ideal for a RB. The defense knows what's coming and they stack the box, the fact that the Raiders are still able to run the ball in such situations is a testament to their rushing attack, not Jason Campbell.

Like it or not, think whatever you want to think, Campbell was the quintessential leader yesterday for the Raiders. MVP of the game no question. If you believe otherwise, you did not watch the game. Period.