ESPN: Miles Austin has surpassed Andre Johnson as best WR in NFL

[HapHaszard]

Johnson had more yards and catches, while Miles had 2 more Td's with a 10 catch 250 yard 2 td game to pad those stats...how that makes Miles better then Johnson is beyond me.

Crap article.

deleted jumped before I looked

[#98QBKiller]

LOL, now I know Jerry Jones owns part of ESPN.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

There's no part of me that thinks Miles Austin is the best receiver in football.

So...the only difference between you and the people you felt the need to chastise...is that you didn't laugh? lol...And I thought Cowboys fans were arrogant.

Hopefully, despite having rooting interests that make it unfortunate, we can find a way to be interested in something so unexpected (even if we don't subscribe to it fully).

You act like nobody on this thread has ever heard of sports metrics, has ever formed an opinion about them, and has ever noticed any flaws in that rating system. The idea that many already understand the whole idea of sports metrics, get their value, yet still find it laughable to proclaim player "x" as better than player "y" due solely TO those metrics, seems to be a concept beyond your intellectual capabilities.

[Boss_Hogg]

[OWUeagleMD]

Although I said so explicitly in my first post, I'll restate that sports metrics are neither 100 percent accurate or beyond reproach. This is a case when I would tend to disregard the metric in question as obviously flawed, because the eye-ball test remains an important factor in evaluating a player, and there are many other instances in which that's the right reaction. My post wasn't a blanket defense of sports metrics. Rather, it was my way of pointing out to the two initial posters that the article they were conveniently lampooning was, if nothing else, based on something that, by definition, was not designed to conclude that Miles Austin was the best player at his position. The identification of a Cowboys bias is simply off the mark.

However, saying "these results make clear that these are pretty flawed metrics being used" is very different than saying "ROTFLMAO!! :ols:" or "GOD THAT BIG BAD ESPN IS SUCH A BUNCH OF GAYS FOR THE COWBOYS!!! :mad::mad:"

But like I said, that was made clear in my first post.

[acuratl1984]

Miles Austin is no where close to Andre Johnson...so far Austin has one good year... hopefully he blows it next year.

[CaptChaos86]

BBWWWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! Man espn loves them some pukes. That might be the most ridiculous thing i have ever read.

[HailinginSeattle]

The absurdity! Good for a laugh though.

[GreenRiggins]

Isn't this the same cat who said one of our DBs (I can't remember who)was tops in the league.

[GreenRiggins]

Although I said so explicitly in my first post, I'll restate that sports metrics are neither 100 percent accurate or beyond reproach. This is a case when I would tend to disregard the metric in question as obviously flawed, because the eye-ball test remains an important factor in evaluating a player, and there are many other instances in which that's the right reaction. My post wasn't a blanket defense of sports metrics. Rather, it was my way of pointing out to the two initial posters that the article they were conveniently lampooning was, if nothing else, based on something that, by definition, was not designed to conclude that Miles Austin was the best player at his position. The identification of a Cowboys bias is simply off the mark.

However, saying "these results make clear that these are pretty flawed metrics being used" is very different than saying "ROTFLMAO!! :ols:" or "GOD THAT BIG BAD ESPN IS SUCH A BUNCH OF GAYS FOR THE COWBOYS!!! :mad::mad:"

But like I said, that was made clear in my first post.

Props to you dude.

When I saw the headline I jumped to conclusions like everyone else but if you read the metrics/stats he uses to support his argument you come way at least thinking ole horseface grin had a better year than AJ.

I still think or hope it was a a one year thing but who knows until we see how their 1st rounder looks.

[Mr. Jones]

I don't think Austin is the best WR in the NFL but over the last 12 games of the season (those Austin actually started) no one can touch his production. It wasn't just one or two routes that he burned people on either, he was good in every aspect of the game and no matter who was covering him.

Another metric I've seen to quantify how well a receiver played is to run the numbers (attempts, completions, completion %, YPA, TDs, INTS) of the passes thrown at them through the QB rating system, Austin also led the NFL giving Romo sits to pee a rating of 127.8 on passes thrown Austin's way, following him were Rice in MN with 125.1, Colston with 124.4, Vincent Jackson with 123.0 before dropping to Wes Welker at 109.4.

I don't expect anyone on this board certainly to acknowledge it, but Austin played at a truly elite level last year.

[GreenRiggins]

I don't think Austin is the best WR in the NFL but over the last 12 games of the season (those Austin actually started) no one can touch his production. It wasn't just one or two routes that he burned people on either, he was good in every aspect of the game and no matter who was covering him.

Another metric I've seen to quantify how well a receiver played is to run the numbers (attempts, completions, completion %, YPA, TDs, INTS) of the passes thrown at them through the QB rating system, Austin also led the NFL giving Romo sits to pee a rating of 127.8 on passes thrown Austin's way, following him were Rice in MN with 125.1, Colston with 124.4, Vincent Jackson with 123.0 before dropping to Wes Welker at 109.4.

I don't expect anyone on this board certainly to acknowledge it, but Austin played at a truly elite level last year.

Oh stop whining :pfft: not all of us see in only Burgundy/Gold.

I for one can separate from my bias and say I hope like hell one of our twin 2nd round WRs can have half the impact he had last year.

[Mr. Jones]

Oh stop whining :pfft: not all of us see in only Burgundy/Gold.

I for one can separate from my bias and say I hope like hell one of our twin 2nd round WRs can have half the impact he had last year.

Sorry GR, I didn't think of you when I posted that. I find you always to be very objective in your observations. I think the redskins entire receiving corps should do much better this year with McNabb under center. He may be getting a little long in the tooth but he's still quite talented and a huge upgrade over Campbell, not to mention the effect that improvements along the Oline and coaching will have.

[elkabong82]

so the metrics seem to use YPA in various circumstances as the measuring stick, and only looked at match-ups vs. CBs, so it doesn't tell the whole story because there is a lot more to being a receiver than YPA.

I believe the simplest things to do is look at their individual match-ups against the top defenses they faced and see who fared best, while also considering the differences in defenses faced between the WRs.

[RunClintonRun26]

Yikes . . . The writer should be burned and the editor should be fired for even allowing such an unbelievable opinion see the light of day.

There are so many things wrong with his "analysis" that I don't know where to begin.

For starters, no one . . . and I repeat NO ONE . . . would rather have Miles Austin over Andre Johnson. Not Tony Romo sits to pee. Not Jerry Jones. NO ONE.

Andre Johnson doesn't have the luxury of having a consistent All-Pro Tight End relieve some pressure off of him . . . He is doubled EVERY play, AND has coverage shaded towards him . . . yet he still manages to do what he does.

I don't care what metrics you use to support your claims. Because when it comes down to it, you can find stats to support anything you want. Hell . . . for the last two years Brendan Haywood was a top 5 center in the league based on some absurd stats about his ability to contest shots in the paint or some other garbage. But when it comes to something as outrageous as the claim that Miles Austin is the best WR in the league . . . Wow.

[zeroburrito]

Johnson had more yards and catches, while Miles had 2 more Td's with a 10 catch 250 yard 2 td game to pad those stats...how that makes Miles better then Johnson is beyond me.

Crap article.

miles started what? 12 games?

he may not be the best wr, but he had BY FAR the best year.

[DefenderoftheStar]

Lets not jump the freaking gun here, I know teh status quo, take something that uses the Cowboys and mock it.

Bottom line this is either a system Joyner came up with or likes to use, either way its crap. This points out, how to use numbers, manipulate them and than get them to say something else.

Had this been a Skin, im sure the parade would be long lasting to a few, not the majority.

This is not saying Austin is better than Johnson, this is not saying Austin had a better season, this is saying, here some numbers, this is what they mean.

I never liked his system, i dont subscribe to the train of thought. Its basically trying to redifine the "wheel" we dont need it, other people think they have something better.

What the article is trying to say however worded, nonsense, but something in the numbers are there. OKay, so maybe per catch Austin did something better, and had more TD"s. FINE, but the reason Austin is getting so much air time is (try to keep up wtih me here) a movement trying to show non drafted players can contribute as well.

You are going to get that from time to time, but Austin came from a small school, i know i Went there there, and he kept the Cowboys season going with the KC game. Its an underdog story, America loves the underdog, over all no one cares til next year.

Austin caught some footballs, broke a tackle or three and scored with the cheerleader when giving the chance. Yes he was behind most of the receivers at the time, yes he was slippery to take down and yes he took advantage of it and shoved JJ's Roy Williams trade down his throat.

Blah blah blah, lets see if he can do it next season. Romo sits to pee likes the guy, he trusted in him and Austin delivered for one season. Drew Pearson he is not, YET, is it there? who knows, does this article and system support it? No, can an injury kill his career, yes, will he be remembered after it? no.

There are your answers, for some of you who love ESPN or any other media crud, there is your new opinion, and for the rest of you thinkers who didnt poo poo the article, keep up the good work and for the rest of you, good nite.

[DefenderoftheStar]

Yikes . . . The writer should be burned and the editor should be fired for even allowing such an unbelievable opinion see the light of day.

There are so many things wrong with his "analysis" that I don't know where to begin.

For starters, no one . . . and I repeat NO ONE . . . would rather have Miles Austin over Andre Johnson. Not Tony Romo sits to pee. Not Jerry Jones. NO ONE.

Andre Johnson doesn't have the luxury of having a consistent All-Pro Tight End relieve some pressure off of him . . . He is doubled EVERY play, AND has coverage shaded towards him . . . yet he still manages to do what he does.

I don't care what metrics you use to support your claims. Because when it comes down to it, you can find stats to support anything you want. Hell . . . for the last two years Brendan Haywood was a top 5 center in the league based on some absurd stats about his ability to contest shots in the paint or some other garbage. But when it comes to something as outrageous as the claim that Miles Austin is the best WR in the league . . . Wow.

blah blah blah im not going to give a Cowboy credit, blah blah blah, even tho he had a great season for what was giving him, blah blah blah, Skins rule even at 4-12, we got a higher draft pick we're the winners. Blah blah blah, something something something, Redskins rule.

Cliff notes if anyone wanted them.

[terrifNick21]

Omfg. How in the hell can someone honestly think this bull****? They're are some stupid people these days. I swear.

[Conn]

blah blah blah im not going to give a Cowboy credit, blah blah blah, even tho he had a great season for what was giving him, blah blah blah, Skins rule even at 4-12, we got a higher draft pick we're the winners. Blah blah blah, something something something, Redskins rule.

Cliff notes if anyone wanted them.

Hm, I see that you're continuing your history of contributing well thought-out, intelligent posts to ES here. Carry on.

[terrifNick21]

blah blah blah im not going to give a Cowboy credit, blah blah blah, even tho he had a great season for what was giving him, blah blah blah, Skins rule even at 4-12, we got a higher draft pick we're the winners. Blah blah blah, something something something, Redskins rule.

Cliff notes if anyone wanted them.

If you actually believe that Austin's the best receiver in the NFL, get out.

This article is absolute garbage.

Did Austin have a good season? Damn right.

But does one season suddenly make you better than players who have CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers than Austin for a longer period of time, hell no.

It's asinine to even believe he's top 5.

I honestly want to throw up after reading that. Whoever wrote that must know NOTHING about the sport of football. What a joke.

[Conn]

If you actually believe that Austin's the best receiver in the NFL, get out.

This article is absolute garbage.

Did Austin have a good season? Damn right.

But does one season suddenly make you better than players who have CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers than Austin for a longer period of time, hell no.

It's asinine to even believe he's top 5.

I honestly want to throw up after reading that. Whoever wrote that must know NOTHING about the sport of football. What a joke.

I agree with the sentiment

But honestly, that asinine conclusion was reached through the use of a certain set of metrics. So if you don't like the findings from this analysis of those stats, that's what you should be criticizing. The advanced metrics.

Obviously you don't agree that having the best YPA in the league makes you the best WR. And I agree with you. But it also explains why you don't agree with the article, not that anyone should.

[terrifNick21]

I agree with the sentiment

But honestly, that asinine conclusion was reached through the use of a certain set of metrics. So if you don't like the findings from this analysis of those stats, that's what you should be criticizing. The advanced metrics.

Obviously you don't agree that having the best YPA in the league makes you the best WR. And I agree with you. But it also explains why you don't agree with the article, not that anyone should.

**** advanced metrics. It's like QB rating. It means nothing in the end. Just another stat to give someone another way to look good. How many big games did Teeth Rex have against the better secondaries of the league? He shined against soft secondaries. Plus he's a Cowboy, so he's going to get all the hype. It's absolutely sickening.

**** Dallas. :mad:

[DefenderoftheStar]

If you actually believe that Austin's the best receiver in the NFL, get out.

This article is absolute garbage.

Did Austin have a good season? Damn right.

But does one season suddenly make you better than players who have CONSISTENTLY put up better numbers than Austin for a longer period of time, hell no.

It's asinine to even believe he's top 5.

I honestly want to throw up after reading that. Whoever wrote that must know NOTHING about the sport of football. What a joke.

read my post above that.

[DefenderoftheStar]

Hm, I see that you're continuing your history of contributing well thought-out, intelligent posts to ES here. Carry on.

you didnt say i was wrong.