An unexpected car tax

[mardi gras skin]

So, I'm hunting for a used car and it turns out I'm on the hook for the "cash for clunkers" rebate. With over 700,000 used cars disposed of, deals are harder to come by than in the past. I'm either going to get less car or find more change in the couch.

Thanks for sticking your finger in the economy, government! :slap:

[pjfootballer]

Government bailouts and incentive programs have made our culture too lazy to pay for the things they want. Everyone expects a handout now.

[sideshow24]

Yup. I have an old pickup and my mechanic told me to hang onto it, "most of these went in the crusher and it is probably worth two or three times that of a few years ago.

[Duckus]

With the economy in its current shape there are plenty of people selling cars personally. I would check out craigslist.

[TradeTheBeal!]

So, I'm hunting for a used car and it turns out I'm on the hook for the "cash for clunkers" rebate. With over 700,000 used cars disposed of, deals are harder to come by than in the past. I'm either going to get less car or find more change in the couch.

Thanks for sticking your finger in the economy, government! :slap:

The vast majority of clunkers were exactly that....pieces of crap. The government action was VERY beneficial to the car companies, car dealers, car buyers, the move to conserve fuel, etc. Your anger is misdirected and your research is flawed.

[daveakl]

The vast majority of clunkers were exactly that....pieces of crap. The government action was VERY beneficial to the car companies, car dealers, car buyers, the move to conserve fuel, etc. Your anger is misdirected and your research is flawed.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/11/573594/in-cars-is-used-always-less.html

The problem is real, the cause the OP cites may be wrong.

[Zguy28]

The vast majority of clunkers were exactly that....pieces of crap. The government action was VERY beneficial to the car companies, car dealers, car buyers, the move to conserve fuel, etc. Your anger is misdirected and your research is flawed.

Don't you love it when a poster says "Your X (insert the word logic, research, or whatever) is flawed" without providing any evidence as to why?

[Busch1724]

The same thing will occur with the housing market that was artifically propped up by rebates.

[joe]

So if a tax is used to provide income to the government, how can higher prices for used cars be a tax? I mean, the owner of the used car, not the government, is the beneficiary of the price increase. How is this a tax?

[SnyderShrugged]

The vast majority of clunkers were exactly that....pieces of crap. The government action was VERY beneficial to the car companies, car dealers, car buyers, the move to conserve fuel, etc. Your anger is misdirected and your research is flawed.

No, he was right on track. It's simple economics. Less supply higher the costs and difficulty in obtaining the now scarce resource.

[TradeTheBeal!]

No, he was right on track. It's simple economics. Less supply higher the costs and difficulty in obtaining the now scarce resource.

If the "now scarce resource" is 93 Explorers with 150K+ miles, then he's right. You used to be able to get them for $300, now it might cost $600-700.

[TradeTheBeal!]

http://www.newsobserver.com/2010/07/11/573594/in-cars-is-used-always-less.html

The problem is real, the cause the OP cites may be wrong.

From the link... Credit the prolonged recession with prompting more Americans to buy used, sending the average price of a 3-year-old car up 11.1 percent from last year and triple the usual annual increase, reports Edmunds.com, an auto research site.

A 3-year old car is not a clunker.

[sideshow24]

With the economy in its current shape there are plenty of people selling cars personally. I would check out craigslist.

Just not in Fredericksburg. http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2010/072010/07202010/562816#axzz0uFQ1qBK9

[daveakl]

If the "now scarce resource" is 93 Explorers with 150K+ miles, then he's right. You used to be able to get them for $300, now it might cost $600-700.

So you are saying that there were not many cars in the $3500-$4000 range that were traded in but otherwise were in good working order?

[joe]

Yes the price of used cars increased because of the cash for clunkers program, but I still don't see how this is a tax. Love for someone to explain that to me.

[TradeTheBeal!]

So you are saying that there were not many cars in the $3500-$4000 range that were traded in but otherwise were in good working order?

I personally dealt with around 200 clunkers. Very few, maybe 20, were in good working order. Most had severe issues relating to the drivetrain or electrical system. To my eye, most were in the range of $0-$1500 value at best. The clunkers program, in essence, made a $1000 car worth $4000ish...that's the sweet spot where most of the transactions took place.

[twa]

Yes the price of used cars increased because of the cash for clunkers program, but I still don't see how this is a tax. Love for someone to explain that to me.

It's not, the the real tax will be in paying for it(and the interest)

[ABQCOWBOY]

Perhaps the better description would be, "Unintended Consequence", as opposed to unexpected tax. Personally, I would call it Government Stupidity but hey, what do I know about it?

[sideshow24]

Yes the price of used cars increased because of the cash for clunkers program, but I still don't see how this is a tax. Love for someone to explain that to me.

Sometimes people refer to government action that costs them money as a "tax". I know when I pay my registration fees each year for my vehicles, I don't view that as a fee but really view it as a tax.

[joe]

But your registration fees are actually taxes, they are providing money to the government. "Unintended consequences" is a much better title for the thread, but not as incendiary, so it was not used.

[rictus58]

Sometimes people refer to government action that costs them money as a "tax". I know when I pay my registration fees each year for my vehicles, I don't view that as a fee but really view it as a tax.

Imake the distinction between the two this way...

One is a user "fee", one is mandatory.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Imake the distinction between the two this way...

One is a user "fee", one is mandatory.

And now you know how Bill Gates came up with his Microsoft Licensing agreement.

[sideshow24]

But your registration fees are actually taxes, they are providing money to the government. "Unintended consequences" is a much better title for the thread, but not as incendiary, so it was not used.

This is certainly true. I don't object to him using the term tax though since it was government action that took money out of his pocket. While not truly a tax, saying "unintended consequences" instead could not express the frustration nearly as well.

[sideshow24]

Imake the distinction between the two this way...

One is a user "fee", one is mandatory.

In most of Virginia, the necessity of owning and registering a vehicle is so absolute that there is little distinction between a tax and registration "fee". You have to have a vehicle therefore you have to pay the fee. This makes it mandatory in my view and therefore a tax.

No, I am not forming a militia. Just had to renew my tags

[rictus58]

In most of Virginia, the necessity of owning and registering a vehicle is so absolute that there is little distinction between a tax and registration "fee". You have to have a vehicle therefore you have to pay the fee. This makes it mandatory in my view and therefore a tax.

No, I am not forming a militia. Just had to renew my tags

Owning a vehicle is not mandatory though. You're personal desire(s) make it necessary. But you could chose to not own a car.

Having said that...doesn't Virginia also tax your cars annually?