Wealth Redistribution

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

He's arguing that wealthy people are the best at making money, not that they are morally superior.

But he is arguing that their wealth is deserved. The best QB makes the most money because he is obviously good at what he does. Peyton Manning is better at his job than, say, David Carr.

The idea that the CEO of Lehman Brothers was obviously better than, I dunno, the guy who manages your local Starbucks is not demonstrably true. Unless your local Starbucks just went out of business and took $13 trillion in wealth with it.

[AsburySkinsFan]

So says the mediocore.

So says the 90%. I wonder if the 10% will be so smug when they truly break the economic system with their games, or when the 90% figure out that the 10% have to have the 90%. For the Czars it was a guy named Lenin that broke the news to them, I hope for our sakes the lesson is learned sooner rather than later.

[Prosperity]

nvm.................

[Destino]

Outsourcing is one of the greatest things this country has ever seen. It still amazes me how it gets a bad reputation. Actually, it doesn't suprise me, because people want votes, and the masses aren't very intelligent.

You sound like a blithering idiot here amigo. I like you love outsourcing and will spare you the specifics. Suffice it to say it allows my time spent doing things I would rather not do to be minimized cheaply. The problem is that cheap part comes at the cost of an American job. Times like today when unemployment is up people aren't going to look at the ease at which their jobs can be crossed off the budget very positively. Not everyone wants to be a business owner and not every will be an executive (the jobs we don't outsource). In no model can a majority ever be these things.

So like I said before, if it gets too out of control the mob will wake up and do what a mob does. They will wildly change things from how they found it until they are lulled to sleep again.

[drtdrums]

Wrong, that's only one direction of wealth redistribution, saying that the rich getting richer off the poor isn't wealth redistribution is like saying an African American can't be a racist. The wealth is being redistributed from the poor to the rich through the economic system that the rich control.

Nope, what you just described is what I'd call "wealth distribution."

The poor spend, the rich save and invest. It's that simple. Trying to make the rich into the bad guys is a blame game played by the ignorant and politically motivated.

[Destino]

What was the OP trying to point out with this?

Doesn't matter as we have a full scale populist war going on now. lol

[AsburySkinsFan]

Nope, what you just described is what I'd call "wealth distribution."

In that case what you just described is a giant shell game that the poor cannot win, if wealth distribution only moves upward then to heck with the guy at the bottom, only the guy at the bottom isn't alone, he's standing there with 90% of the country.

[Destino]

The poor spend, the rich save and invest. It's that simple.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

If even you believe that wow. WOW. You hear that poor people, just save and you're rich! Oh wait save and INVEST... then you're rich. I'm going to let you tell me why your formula is full of fail.

[DieselPwr44]

Shhhh...a rising tide raises all ships....oh...wait.

Ohhh..I got that one!

John F. Kennedy,1963

One of your guys.

[McD5]

But he is arguing that their wealth is deserved. The best QB makes the most money because he is obviously good at what he does. Peyton Manning is better at his job than' date=' say, David Carr.

The idea that the CEO of Lehman Brothers was obviously better than, I dunno, the guy who manages your local Starbucks is not demonstrably true. Unless your local Starbucks just went out of business and took $13 trillion in wealth with it.[/quote']

Many here are incorrectly suggesting that the wealthy are wealthy because they are scumbags.

As if there aren't poor scumbags.

For every wealthy scumbag, there is another poor scumbag, collecting umeployment illegally, for example.

These people are the best(not always ethically) at what they do.

Of course their income will increase more.

They can buy distressed properties. They can start businesses. They can take advantage of this downturn.

This isn't any big news.

[Kilmer17]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

If even you believe that wow. WOW. You hear that poor people, just save and you're rich! Oh wait save and INVEST... then you're rich. I'm going to let you tell me why your formula is full of fail.

I think you took that wrong.

He's correct. The rich get richer because they dont have to spend all of their earnings.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Ohhh..I got that one!

John F. Kennedy,1963

One of your guys.

Pssst, I'm not a Democrat, and I reserve the right to say that JFK was wrong too, trust me he's not idolized nearly as much as Reagan is by the GOP.

[Prosperity]

I think you took that wrong.

He's correct. The rich get richer because they dont have to spend all of their earnings.

and the poor stay poor because there is no disposable income to invest

but why do they get poorer? Anyone have an explanation for that?

[AsburySkinsFan]

I think you took that wrong.

He's correct. The rich get richer because they dont have to spend all of their earnings.

I know how he meant it Kilmer, but you have to admit that he seemed to be very smug when he said it, and I know smug.

[Kilmer17]

I know how he meant it Kilmer, but you have to admit that he seemed to be very smug when he said it, and I know smug.

Sure, but what fun is it here if we dont get to be smug.

"and the poor stay poor because there is no disposable income to invest"

Yep. That too.

[McD5]

You sound like a blithering idiot here amigo. I like you love outsourcing and will spare you the specifics.

Outsourcing benefits every single American in this country. Even the poorest of the poor.

That TV you just saved $500 on, because it was outsourced?

Now you can go spend that $500 on something else. Like a vacation. And you can create other jobs with it.

It is in everyone's best interest to always have the low-cost producer bringing the product.

It saves everyone money.

Even those who complain about it, and can't understand it.

[Destino]

Many here are incorrectly suggesting that the wealthy are wealthy because they are scumbags.

I agree with this. In fact the wealthier people i know aren't bad they are just self interested. Odd thing is the poorer people I know are also self interested. Imagine that?!

Some people are better at making money than others. This doesn't mean they are any more or less good on average IMO.

[Prosperity]

Doesn't matter as we have a full scale populist war going on now. lol

good thing I brought this thing along

[mcsluggo]

Nope, what you just described is what I'd call "wealth distribution."

The poor spend, the rich save and invest. It's that simple. Trying to make the rich into the bad guys is a blame game played by the ignorant and politically motivated.

and your argument is made by somebody that is either too lazy or too stupid to actually look at the chart they are discussing before they opine. (not to mention.. the POLICALLY MOTIVATED lazy/ignorant)

the chart DOES NOT show that incomes of rich people went up at a faster rate than incomes of poor people, as would be implied by your argument (ie. both increasing, but the rich increasing at a faster rate)

it showed the incomes of the rich went up and the incomes of 90% (hardly "the poor") went down. the implications from THAT dynamic are VASTLT different than the dynamic you refer to (returns on investment versus a lack of forward looking investemtn)---- not to mention the fact that the graphs explicitly do not look at capital gains.

[Destino]

Outsourcing benefits every single American in this country. Even the poorest of the poor.

That TV you just saved $500 on, because it was outsourced?

Now you can go spend that $500 on something else. Like a vacation. And you can create other jobs with it.

It is in everyone's best interest to always have the low-cost producer bringing the product.

It saves everyone money.

Even those who complain about it, and can't understand it.

I knew your argument before you made it. If a cheaper TV comes at the cost of ones ability to earn money it could be free and you'd have no place to put it and no power to run it. Outsourcing costs JOBS and no one I know would trade the opportunity to acquire gainful employment for a COUPON.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Outsourcing benefits every single American in this country. Even the poorest of the poor.

That TV you just saved $500 on, because it was outsourced?

Now you can go spend that $500 on something else. Like a vacation. And you can create other jobs with it.

Except the poor schmuck whose job it used to be to make that TV who is now out of work or working at a much lower paying job. Yep, everyone benefits.

[McD5]

I knew your argument before you made it. If a cheaper TV comes at the cost of ones ability to earn money it could be free and you'd have no place to put it and no power to run it. Outsourcing costs JOBS and no one I know would trade the opportunity to acquire gainful employment for a COUPON.

It does not benefit you, or any other consumer, in any way to pay an extra $500 for that tv set.

Outsourcing allows all Americans to afford things they could have never afforded without it.

Even if it is a poor person, buying a $150 couch.

Without outsourcing, that might be a $200 couch, and out of reach.

[McD5]

Except the poor schmuck whose job it used to be to make that TV who is now out of work or working at a much lower paying job. Yep, everyone benefits.

Nope, it benefits him too.

Every other item he buys costs less because of it.

He couldn't have his current lifestyle without it.

Outsourcing was given a bad name by politicians, looking to win votes from the poor. Or from people too stupid to understand it, and how it benefits them every single day of their lives.

[Popeman38]

Here is a question I ask whenever I see a thread like this on ES. Somehow, it never gets answered.

If the poor are getting poorer and the middle class is shrinking, how the hell do you explain every teenager owning a cell phone? Or each family owning 2 cars? Or all the people that own boats/vacation homes/timeshares/other toys?

Back in the day, dad worked, mom stayed home with the kids, the family lived modestly, and you saved money. Nowadays, everyone has to have the nice car, the new phone, cutting edge technology, new clothes.

You would be amazed at what you can actually live on. Cut out cable, reduce your household phone count by losing either the cell or landline, drive your car until it literally dies. Most people could effectively save 50% of their income if they tried.

The middle class isn't shrinking, we are redefining what the middle class is and classifying them as poor.

[Destino]

It does not benefit you, or any other consumer, in any way to pay an extra $500 for that tv set.

In order to become a consumer you have to have a source of income. You have no hope of winning this point. To an extent outsourcing is great when it gets out of control however....

Also on a macro scale I'm not sure that exporting all of the US's manufacturing capability and turning the US into a purely service (read: paper pusher) nation is a good thing in terms of long term stability.