Browns trade Quinn...interested in trading up to #4 for Claussen?

[derskinsfan]

Maybe there is something to the Browns wanting to trade up to #4 for Clausen. They got RB Peyton Hillis from the Broncos as part of the Quinn deal, and I have read right here on ES that Shanahan saw potential in Hillis. Maybe he was acquired in part to set up a trade w/the Skins contingent on Clausen being available at #4 on draft day.

[planter]

I think it makes perfect since. Clausen is a perfect for Shanahan. I will be suprised if he isn't the pick at 4. I do like Okung as a LT prospect, but when u think u can get yourself a franchise QB u do it. PERIOD

I agree but only IF the QB is a franchise QB. Conversely, when teams use very high picks on QBs and miss it can set back a franchise 4-5 years.

[That Redskins Fan]

That doesn't align with the draft value chart.

I think we'd only be able to get their 1st and 3rd this year for our 1st.

Our First:

1800 pts

Their First:

1500

Their Third:

235

Source: http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Their 2nd rounder is 510 pts making it a ridiculous trade on their part unless they are totally in love with Claussen. Somehow, I don't see this happening. Anything less wouldn't really benefit us much, either.

I am not using the value chart they have 3 3rd picks one and their second rounder should suffice to trade up , however if i am the redskins I would have suh come in for a vist and hype him up to scare the bucs from making a trade at the three spot.

Bucs luv suh more than mccoy

edit the browns have twelve picks in this draft- take them to the cleaners

[demarc007]

http://espndb.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=292900087

No defense. No running game. No protection. No Floyd, while Tate was getting doubled all game. 27th ranked pass D coming into the game. One game-tying TD dropped by Rudolph. Another potential TD falling to the target slipping on the route.

Clausen singlehandedly brought that team back. And don't even say "Golden Tate" - wide receivers don't lead teams back against USC.

Sure, Rudolph was open on the last play. After playing as good as one could play under the conditions, against a very good defense, can we really fault him for one missed opportunity?

Why are you giving me a bunch of excuses. He either did it or he didn't. You can what if Joey Harrington to All-Pro status. I see the ND offense scored 7 pts in the first half. None of that was Clausen's fault right? I get it. But the 13pts late in the 4th when the prevent came out is impressive to you and all Clausen. Nevertheless, Clausen still only through for 260 and 2 TDs in yet another losing effort. An OK day for what you guys are claiming he is. Got another one, we are working with 3 years here.

AND USC's defense is not very good. That was the worst season they had since Carroll took over. My goodness, can we be real.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Why are you giving me a bunch of excuses. He either did it or he didn't. You can what if Joey Harrington to All-Pro status. I see the ND offense scored 7 pts in the first half. None of that was Clausen's fault right? I get it. But the 13pts late in the 4th when the prevent came out is impressive to you and all Clausen. Nevertheless, Clausen still only through for 260 and 2 TDs in yet another losing effort. An OK day for what you guys are claiming he is. Got another one, we are working with 3 years here.

AND USC's defense is not very good. That was the worst season they had since Carroll took over. My goodness, can we be real.

You've provided absolutely no argument beyond "Clausen's a douche" and "He didn't take one of the worst teams in Division I to bowl games".

Jay Cutler had comparable talent at Vanderbilt, and put up worse stats in 2005 against teams that were not a whit better defensively than Clausen in 2008 (He lit up Tennessee and Florida, but got destroyed by LSU, got smoked by Georgia, and put up similar stats against SC that Clausen did to USC in a loss).

That sure hurt him.

In the NFL, great QBs elevate the team, because the talent differences are smaller.

In college, great QBs elevate the team from 2 wins to 6 wins because the talent differences are bigger.

You hate Jimmy Clausen. Fair enough. Please do not mistake that for actual debate.

Also, notice that the Trojans started giving up a lot of points AFTER Clausen scored 27 points on them? He and Weis figured out how to beat them and other teams copied it.

[CommanderDOOM]

Jay Cutler .

Made Vandy a tough out in the SEC and has a rocket-arm.

[demarc007]

You've provided absolutely no argument beyond "Clausen's a douche" and "He didn't take one of the worst teams in Division I to bowl games".

Jay Cutler had comparable talent at Vanderbilt, and put up worse stats in 2005 against teams that were not a whit better defensively than Clausen in 2008 (He lit up Tennessee and Florida, but got destroyed by LSU, got smoked by Georgia, and put up similar stats against SC that Clausen did to USC in a loss).

That sure hurt him.

In the NFL, great QBs elevate the team, because the talent differences are smaller.

In college, great QBs elevate the team from 2 wins to 6 wins because the talent differences are bigger.

You hate Jimmy Clausen. Fair enough. Please do not mistake that for actual debate.

Also, notice that the Trojans started giving up a lot of points AFTER Clausen scored 27 points on them? He and Weis figured out how to beat them and other teams copied it.

What do you mean i haven't provided an argument. All I've been using is stat after stat. Every QB you keep bringing up puts Clausen's on the field resume to shame. Yes, Jay Cutler and at pathetic Vanderbilt, in the strongest conference in college football WON ON THE ROAD in Knoxville, Tenn. Cutler put up the SECOND MOST POINTS EVER IN GATOR COUNTRY. /If that's not more impressive to you than what your boy Clausen has done you are lost.

All I'm asking you is where are Clausen's "moments" like that? All the QBs have them worth their weight. Eli, Big Ben, Rivers, Brees, etc. they've all had those games in college. It's not hard, bring them to the thread if he has any.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Jay Cutler went 7-18 at Vandy, got blown out by LSU and Georgia in his "good" year, and only had two truly good games in college. Look at his game log. The great defenses he played ATE HIM ALIVE. Other than them, he put up stats on mid-majors and weak SEC teams like Kentucky and Arkansas. So what if he had one "signature" win? So what if he beat Tennessee one year? Those are nice wins - not a basis to take a statistically inferior QB over a statistically superior one.

The fact is, Clausen's statistical accomplishments either equal or trump even the best guys on the list you mentioned. Sure some of them played against SEC talent - but they also had SEC talent to go with it. Peyton Manning had NFL linemen blocking for him and he handed off to NFL running backs (including a future 2000 yard back in Jamal Lewis).

Jimmy Clausen played against better talent, often significantly better talent, than he played with.

Puts Clausen's on-field resume to shame? Cutler? It's the other way around. Clausen's sophomore year was better than Cutler's senior year.

Tough out? You're a funny guy.

[demarc007]

Jay Cutler went 7-18 at Vandy, got blown out by LSU and Georgia in his "good" year, and only had two truly good games in college. Look at his game log. The great defenses he played ATE HIM ALIVE.

Tough out? You're a funny guy.

First off I didn't say tough out, that was another guy. Vandy sucked dude, all they can recruit is 1400 SATs. Cmon man, it was the SEC. They can't make a cushy schedule like ND. I will let John Lynch speak for me he played the game:

Reflecting on Cutler's college career, former Denver Broncos safety John Lynch said, "If this guy can take a bunch of future doctors and lawyers and have them competing against the Florida Gators, this guy is a stud."

That's a winner dude, just sit and digest that. It's a mouthful.

[Oldskool]

Why are you giving me a bunch of excuses. He either did it or he didn't. You can what if Joey Harrington to All-Pro status. I see the ND offense scored 7 pts in the first half. None of that was Clausen's fault right? I get it. But the 13pts late in the 4th when the prevent came out is impressive to you and all Clausen. Nevertheless, Clausen still only through for 260 and 2 TDs in yet another losing effort. An OK day for what you guys are claiming he is. Got another one, we are working with 3 years here.

AND USC's defense is not very good. That was the worst season they had since Carroll took over. My goodness, can we be real.

Excuses are what people say when they don't like the facts presented to him. Clausen for 3 years was the best player on a ND team that no longer gets top recruits.

I'm not a ND backer by any means or in the draft Clausen camp in any way, but this is the QB in the draft that has "it", not Bradford, who had one of the best OL's in College Football for years and a solid running game and still didn't overly impress.

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

"implying that notre dame's standards aren't top-tier as well".

You're basically using single games and random soundbites and ignoring the fact that Clausen's sophomore and junior years were better than Cutler's junior and senior years with similar talent disparities.

You hate Clausen. The problem is that you're mistaking that for actual debate.

Clausen's college credentials blow Cutler out of the water, and you know it.

[demarc007]

Excuses are what people say when they don't like the facts presented to him. Clausen for 3 years was the best player on a ND team that no longer gets top recruits.

I'm not a ND backer by any means or in the draft Clausen camp in any way, but this is the QB in the draft that has "it", not Bradford, who had one of the best OL's in College Football for years and a solid running game and still didn't overly impress.

Oh really, sounds like a whining to me. No defense, no running game, if he didn't drop that pass, oh he was so close. Uhhhhh right. I'm waiting for the "it" game to be presented.

[demarc007]

"implying that notre dame's standards aren't top-tier as well".

You're basically using single games and random soundbites and ignoring the fact that Clausen's sophomore and junior years were better than Cutler's junior and senior years with similar talent disparities.

You hate Clausen. The problem is that you're mistaking that for actual debate.

Clausen's college credentials blow Cutler out of the water, and you know it.

LOL. Clausen made his living off bad defenses and you can't even dispute that no matter how hard you try. I've given you every opportunity over his entire 3 years to prove otherwise. Then you try to somehow knock Jay Cutler in a conf. as tough as the SEC and compare him to Clausen's tomato can of a schedule every year. LMAO, ok. One season in the SEC > Clausen's entire 3 years

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Facts aren't your strong suit, are they?

http://espndb.go.com/ncf/player/gamelog?playerId=115374&year=2005

Tennessee wasn't that great in 2005 anyway. 56th in Pass defense, seeing that 37th and 27th aren't good enough for you.

Florida was 38th.

Wake Forest was 94th.

Kentucky was 86th.

Mississippi was 15h. He had an okay game but didn't throw a single TD.

All while getting destroyed by LSU and Georgia.

demarc007 status:

Told: [x]

Not Told: []

[redskin301]

I'd be happy whit This draft trade back whit the browns get the #7 Spo. And the browns 2nd and 3rd round picks and take 1st Bryan baluga 2nd colt MCcoy 2nd Ben Tate 3rd cirron black OT lsu

[dfbovey]

I'd be happy whit This draft trade back whit the browns get the #7 Spo. And the browns 2nd and 3rd round picks and take 1st Bryan baluga 2nd colt MCcoy 2nd Ben Tate 3rd cirron black OT lsu

Good luck getting their 2nd and 3rd in a trade back of 3 spots. Not going to even come close to happening. A 3rd and a 5th is more likely according to the draft chart.

[demarc007]

Facts aren't your strong suit, are they?

http://espndb.go.com/ncf/player/gamelog?playerId=115374&year=2005

Tennessee wasn't that great in 2005 anyway. 56th in Pass defense, seeing that 37th and 27th aren't good enough for you.

Florida was 38th.

Wake Forest was 94th.

Kentucky was 86th.

Mississippi was 15h. He had an okay game but didn't throw a single TD.

All while getting destroyed by LSU and Georgia.

demarc007 status:

Told: [x]

Not Told: []

There's something not getting in your head about how bad Vanderbilt was. I know to justify your argument you want to badly put them on the level of Notre Dame but it's not even close. Not even. Further more, a road victory in Tenn is better than anything Clausen ever put together. You still skate around that one. Florida speaks for itself, if you think putting up 42 pts down there on the road was somehow easy you need to watch more football. Still more than your boy ever did. I'm still waiting on the games, oh is it Purdue you want to use. Clausen put up 260 and 2 vs. USC most in the 4th, is that the "it" game?

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense. You're just throwing out school names without any real context.

Repeat after me.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Sure, it was nice that he scored 42 on them (never mind that he only threw for 4 TDs, also threw 2 picks while only being sacked once)

You're just saying "hurrrrrrr Florida hurr Tennessee" and acting like they were great defenses. They weren't. They were good, but they weren't dominant LSU or Georgia or Alabama or OSU defenses. When he played those, he got destroyed.

You apparently lack either the ability to analyze facts in context, nor the ability to look at your position objectively. You're just repeating a premise like a mantra, over and over and over again - that 1: Clausen sucks anyway 2: Cutler put up big yards on defensive beasts 3: Cutler played nothing but scrub defenses.

I have refuted these premises definitively, and you continue to hold to them.

This debate is over.

[CommanderDOOM]

looking at stats will not give u the clear picture of what Cutler did........in the SEC. Its comparable to Harangody last yr. but with less resources. I think Clausen is good too. He's got to be with brothers like his. .

[demarc007]

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense. You're just throwing out school names without any real context.

Repeat after me.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Tennessee had the 56th ranked pass defense.

Sure, it was nice that he scored 42 on them (never mind that he only threw for 4 TDs, also threw 2 picks while only being sacked once)

You're just saying "hurrrrrrr Florida hurr Tennessee" and acting like they were great defenses. They weren't. They were good, but they weren't dominant LSU or Georgia or Alabama or OSU defenses. When he played those, he got destroyed.

You apparently lack either the ability to analyze facts in context, nor the ability to look at your position objectively. You're just repeating a premise like a mantra, over and over and over again - that 1: Clausen sucks anyway 2: Cutler put up big yards on defensive beasts 3: Cutler played nothing but scrub defenses.

I have refuted these premises definitively, and you continue to hold to them.

This debate is over.

I'm glad it's over. No use of debating with anyone that compares Vanderbilt to Notre Dame. Enjoy Clausen's youtube "highlights" vs. tomato cans.