Jason Campbell traded to the Bills? Marshall to the Skins? pure speculation.

[Passizle]

Sorry you weren't able to piece that one together on your own' date=' do any of those teams need to become dominant run teams? No, why? because they have QB's who can take control of the game with their arms. Now if their lines are so bad how do they find the time to throw? Their lines are not that good which only shows how much a QB can effect the outcome of a game even with a poor O-line, putting their teams in 2nd and 3rd and short allows them to be below avg in the run game and still be successful, where as putting us in 2nd and 3rd and long does not as we have seen with JC, and a 3rd and short is much tougher for a defense against a QB who just may throw for a 1st, than against a player like JC who doesn't know which end is up.[/quote']

Problem with your thought is that those teams line are not average or poor. They are excellent.

Ahem... in the post which I replied to yours, your stated... and I quote...

"He can also be responsible for the lack of a dominant WR, and without that downfield passing game it becomes easy for defenses to stack the box and key on the run without a worry of getting burned over the top"

"You wont find teams stacking the box and keying the run against Manning, Brady, or Brees."

"I think the new regime knows these guys can play, and jc's inability to read a defense is why they really have been undervalued!"

From these statments, its pretty plain to see that you attribute a lack of a passing game (in which ours ranked 16th in 2009) to a lack of a run game and the terrible line play to the QB under center.

You essentailly say that all offensive play and success flows from the QB. You could not be more wrong.

If your theory were true, you would think that the runs games of the teams in YOUR example would have at least decent running games. They did not. And those teams did not win until they had dominant defenses.

My POV is that offense flows from the offensive line. With a sub-par line, you will have lesser pass protection and lesser run blocking. The premise that JC stands for 8 seconds in the pocket with a deer in the headlights look on his face... just to take a sack is rediculous to say the least.

You mention a quick read and quick release as your point of reference. Well... if you were to view tape and stats, you would see thet the most successful QB have more than 3 seconds to read and react. JC pocket time on average was less then 3 seconds. FWIW, I dont have the reference for that handy, but an ES poster found the numbers someplace. Perhaps you can look them up.

I'm not saying that JC is a terrific QB being held back by the team. I am saying that JC can succeed when he has more than 3 seconds in the pocket and a supporting run game.

[grego]

JC pocket time on average was less then 3 seconds. FWIW, I dont have the reference for that handy, but an ES poster found the numbers someplace. Perhaps you can look them up.

I'm not saying that JC is a terrific QB being held back by the team. I am saying that JC can succeed when he has more than 3 seconds in the pocket and a supporting run game.

i was looking for that link myself. i saw it posted maybe a month or 2 ago, talked about it at the time, and now i cant find it.

but if anyone can find it, definitely post it. its worth a look. of course, someone would find a way to twist it negatively (actually they already have).

[CommanderDOOM]

^^Does that stat factor in blitzes or are all his 'less than 3 second' one on one failures?? If a team knows that a QB will not make them pay for sending the house guess what....they're gonna blitz like hell on us. A bad QB can indeed hold a team back but we still have questions because we stuck with JC for the most part and have no solid evidence of what another QB would've done.

[Passizle]

^^Does that stat factor in blitzes or are all his 'less than 3 second' one on one failures?? If a team knows that a QB will not make them pay for sending the house guess what....they're gonna blitz like hell on us. A bad QB can indeed hold a team back but we still have questions because we stuck with JC for the most part and have no solid evidence of what another QB would've done.

I cant recall the formula for the statistics. I'll be the first to admit that JC did cause some of his own sacks. But IMO, from watching many, many games... I see a QB getting slapped around alot. We just mention his 43 sacks... and that without the hits and pressures.

[Riggo#44]

i just cant agree that a defense with fletcher, rocky, landry, haynesworth, orakpo, griffin, hall, rogers, and horton can be that bad. thats WAAAY too much talent to squander, and coaching was a major part.

we'll see how well they respond this year with a new regime, but i really like the players we have on defense at the moment.

I like Fletch. I like Rocky. I like Orakpo. Not a big fan of the secondary.

Horton is overrated. He's a nice story, but I don't think he's that good. Even before he got hurt, he was replaced by Doughty. Rogers and Hall have huge holes in their game. Hall will cause a fair amount of turnovers, but will get burnt and perform his best Deion Sanders tackling imitation. Rogers can't catch...and he was beat several times for big plays this year.

Griff is solid, but nearing the end of the line...

[TheMan CC47]

I've heard in other circles speculation about their 2nd round pick and Whitner for JC. I would do that in a heartbeat if true. I have yet to see any media or any solid source actually confirm that so who knows. To me it's all conjecture until it happens.

I could only dream of this happening. This would be like winning the lottery