Ask a car salesman thread?

[chipwhich]

i really only wanted the advertising fees waived. I mean, you are going to put the name of your dealership on the back of my car AND charge me for your advertising?!?!?

only in the car business.

the invoice cost was good, way below sticker because I was doing it through work, like I said above, advertising? lunacy. call it an oil change charge or something.

most dealerships had the same invoice costs, but this fee was variable depending on the dealer.

You are over complicating a really simplistic issue. In a day in age where you can buy a car at better deals than ever that I can remember.

I am a numbers guy. At the end of the day it all adds up to a final sales price. Why would you get hung up on line items in a sales price?

The dealer needs a final number. Personally I don't get caught up in floor mats or wheel locks. If you got their bare bones deal and it included an advertising markup whats the difference if they waved the advertising markup but bumped the car price by the markup?????

A dealer wants a certain number for a car. You have all kinds of resources (internet pricing) to get the bottom of the barrel price. I just bought a car for $1000 less than any dealer would sell me a car for. He charged me for advertising and wheel locks....SO WHAT??? The dealer price was better than anywhere else I could buy the car for, and dealers let me WALK OUT THE DOOR even though I was a SURE THING.

If you are at rock bottom and trying to get an extra this or that below what the dealer is ready to give, then you aren't getting the car.

If your deal is not a good one, another dealer will beat it. If it is a good one then you try and nickel and dime them it probably won't happen unless it's a numbers game for the dealer.

In todays car market, I don't know many dealers willing to let qualified sales walk for pennies on the dollar.

If you are battling a dealer on a 30,000 car for a couple hundred bucks when they take the hit, then the probably don't think you really want the car. A couple hundred dollars over the life of a car loan to a consumer is peanuts. To them it might be the deal breaker.

[skinsaddict]

well for one, the competitor accross town just waived the advertising fee. That fee i have a problem with, especially if you are going to charge me a "processing fee" and a "gross recepits tax"

a couple hundred dollars to me means you dont want my business. I am undoubtably going to take it to your service center for service, etc. and you are going to make much more off my over the life of the car....and it is a 35k car, not 30k.

why would I pay for your to advertise? i dont do that to my customer (yes, I am in sales) nor would I ever pay a vendor who would charge me. you are going to put your dealership on the back of the car, that actually should be something I charge the dealer to do. why break it out as a line item? that just screams "negotiable"

I was driving down the road and this was the next stop. your advertising didnt have anything to do with it.

and people wonder why the car business is in the ****ter.

edit: and I have come around on the transport fee....that I see why it cannot be waived.

[chipwhich]

well for one, the competitor accross town just waived the advertising fee.

Then you didn't do your due dilligence and get the best deal in the first place.

At the end of the day its about THE FINAL NUMBER not about floor mats or an advertising fee....which was my point.

All dealers have a FINAL NUMBER that they are willing to sell a car at.

Apparently your deal wasn't so good at the other dealer.

Regardless...it ultimately is about the final deal...an actual number...not about a line item on the deal.

[Elessar78]

Skinsaddict, you do charge your customer an advertising fee. As well as a fee for utilities, rent, insurance, etc. It's just built into your price. I think the dealer's mistake in this transaction (and I don't know if he is required to) was listing the advertising and transport fee.

Now you've found out that these are not negotiable. When I bought my car I got quotes off the internet from 4 dealers in the DC area and I played them off one another. I got my car for $1,000 over invoice.

the invoice cost was good, way below sticker

most dealerships had the same invoice costs, but this fee was variable depending on the dealer.

I don't want to sound condescending but the invoice should be lower than the sticker. By definition, invoice is what the dealership paid Mazda for the CX-9, Sticker (aka MSRP) price is what the CX-9 is priced at generally. But sticker is a junk number. It's an arbitrary number that you're wise to ignore.

Even the invoice price is misleading, because sometimes Mazda can offer dealerships rebates and other incentives so they can actually buy the car from the manufacturer for less than invoice. Trim level, volume of sales for the dealership can account for the differences in invoice.

I assume you want the top level, Grand Touring AWD model? Quick research tells me that $31,500 is a great price for it. $33,500 would be the most I would paid for it.

Sometimes they even let it go for below invoice because after you agree to a sales price, you go to the back and the "closers" work you over. Try to sell you stupid add-ons. Scotch guarding, security systems, spoilers, under carriage spray protectant, paint finish sealant—all kinds of junk that they can use to up the final price.

[TradeTheBeal!]

well for one, the competitor accross town just waived the advertising fee. That fee i have a problem with, especially if you are going to charge me a "processing fee" and a "gross recepits tax"

a couple hundred dollars to me means you dont want my business. I am undoubtably going to take it to your service center for service, etc. and you are going to make much more off my over the life of the car....and it is a 35k car, not 30k.

why would I pay for your to advertise? i dont do that to my customer (yes, I am in sales) nor would I ever pay a vendor who would charge me. you are going to put your dealership on the back of the car, that actually should be something I charge the dealer to do. why break it out as a line item? that just screams "negotiable"

I was driving down the road and this was the next stop. your advertising didnt have anything to do with it.

and people wonder why the car business is in the ****ter.

edit: and I have come around on the transport fee....that I see why it cannot be waived.

In the interest of full disclosure. I am the General Manager of the Mazda store that lost the sale to skinsaddict. And here's the hard data...

The buyer was an "S-Plan" buyer. This program allows for a purchase at dead invoice plus any additional incentives - in this case, a special financing rate of 0.9 for 60 months. The dealer, for his trouble, receives holdback (a small liquid dealer "rebate" that averages 1.6-2% of invoice) X 2. In this case, that came out to roughly $1200 dollars. Very rare is the buyer that seeks to negotiate below S-Plan price. This buyer made an offer of roughly $1100 dollars back of invoice, thus negating any real profit motive for me.

His offer was declined.

Fortunately for him, my competing dealer had a similar car with a lighter interior, as was his preference. He made the deal on the car he actually preferred at roughly $500 back of invoice . The competing dealer, Tommy Smothers Mazda, took a very short deal ($700 net profit) and I'm sure they would do it again since I outsold them 64 to 31 last month.

That said, all parties involved were simply trying to make a deal the best way they knew how. Negotiations were fair and the outcome was the best possible for all involved.

Also, a tip of the hat to skinsaddict for his fine taste in automobiles. The CX-9 GT is one bad-ass grocery getter. It's basically 90% of a Lexus RX for 60% of the price and it looks and handles better. Congrats!

[skinsaddict]

i was going to spare your dealership name and such, but there you go, and as my PM said, I hadnt bought anything yet and asked you more questions.

i would never have done that to you and I cant beleive you just did that to your competitor on an internet message board. not very professional.

edit: and the (((good mazda))) dealership guarantees the engine for life, free state inspections for life, oil changes and tire replacement for 3 years, key care replacement for the first year, complimentary car washes, 48 hour exchange policy, and loaner car for any service, including said free oil changes.

edit 2: i noticed you left out your name...it's (((bad))) Mazda that lost the sale.

[skinsaddict]

i need to goto DC to buy this car, then. that is waaaay lower than invoice here.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I assume you want the top level, Grand Touring AWD model? Quick research tells me that $31,500 is a great price for it. $33,500 would be the most I would paid for it.

Check your numbers and consider the options. Edmunds invoice

2WD with Navi, Roof/Bose, rear camera, Power liftgate, and wheel locks. Invoice comes out to $35K and change, which is quite accurate. Add AWD and you add another $1000+.

[wantarace17]

When you tell me you are not making a dime on this car and are actually in the hole..is that true?..

Yes it is...at least for the dealership i worked at passport nissan of Alexandria. We often lowered the rice of a new car so much we would lose money. Dealerships make their money from selling used cars

[Elessar78]

Check your numbers and consider the options. Edmunds invoice

2WD with Navi, Roof/Bose, rear camera, Power liftgate, and wheel locks. Invoice comes out to $35K and change, which is quite accurate. Add AWD and you add another $1000+.

Like I said, it was quick research (off Yahoo! autos) and I was just going off of the standard levels that were listed. I didn't catch the actual trim of the CX-9 and add ons that he wanted. My numbers were based off of this page: http://autos.yahoo.com/2010_mazda_cx_9/

On another note, did you and skinsaddict find each other here on ES? Or is it purely coincidence that you're responding to each other in the same thread? It seems too weird to be coincidental.

So going back to the S-Plan thing, let's say invoice was $35K, so skinsaddict was offering you $33,900 for it? At $35K you would've made $1,200 on the sale?

Sorry for all the questions, but it's rare to see both sides of a car negotiation at a "full disclosure" state.

[Elessar78]

Yes it is...at least for the dealership i worked at passport nissan of Alexandria. We often lowered the rice of a new car so much we would lose money. Dealerships make their money from selling used cars

Freudian slip?

[Forehead]

Skinsaddict, it sounds like you were quoting chapter and verse from this site:

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/

I don't blame you, I did the same thing when I was buying a car.

[zoony]

certainly not taking sides, but I think mboyd's explanation of what happened was very professional. I think it was a real good explanation of why the two parties couldn't come to an agreement.

This has been an interesting thread, to say the least

[wantarace17]

Freudian slip?

haha meant price my bad

[skinsaddict]

picking up my new car at 1230 today

i would have bought from mboyd, but i couldnt get past the salesperson who knew less about this car than me, and the sales manager who did't want to make a deal.

it appears this has been a win-win for everyone. i noticed he edited the name of the dealership he is competing with, so I edited my post as well...again...

and it was ironic we met through this thread on extremeskins!

[chipwhich]

edit 2: i noticed you left out your name...it's Pearson Mazda that lost the sale.

At the end of the day both dealerships made you a fair deal. What you wanted from Pearson Mazda wasn't fair to them, hence they stuck to the bottom line.

Not sure how you could complain about a fair deal. Being a business owner myself, you have to have a bottom line and stick to it. Not sure how you can be mad at anyone involved.

Doesn't sound like a sale was lost, more like a loss on a sale was not provided.

In the end, everyone is happy.

[skinsaddict]

At the end of the day both dealerships made you a fair deal. What you wanted from Pearson Mazda wasn't fair to them, hence they stuck to the bottom line.

Not sure how you could complain about a fair deal. Being a business owner myself, you have to have a bottom line and stick to it. Not sure how you can be mad at anyone involved.

Doesn't sound like a sale was lost, more like a loss on a sale was not provided.

In the end, everyone is happy.

i'm not mad at anyone, i got a better deal than even I expected, so i'll be happy for hopefully 10 years. mboyd is right, the car is great and I didnt need a salesperson to tell me that, I test drove dozens of cars, SUV's, crossovers, etc.

[Elessar78]

What was the final price on the CX-9, if you don't mind me asking.

[TradeTheBeal!]

picking up my new car at 1230 today

i would have bought from mboyd, but i couldnt get past the salesperson who knew less about this car than me, and the sales manager who did't want to make a deal.

it appears this has been a win-win for everyone. i noticed he edited the name of the dealership he is competing with, so I edited my post as well...again...

and it was ironic we met through this thread on extremeskins!

And so it goes...Hail!

[TradeTheBeal!]

They have your phone number- they'll call you. trust me on that.

DO NOT call them back.

...

Just so you know, at no time did we entertain the thought of calling this customer back.

[skinsaddict]

Just so you know, at no time did we entertain the thought of calling this customer back.

you're really scoring points with your paying customers. I'm glad I am just a number to you, like every other customer. Communication goes a long way, and that is sorely lacking in the car business. your only goal is to find a sucker, and it looks like you found about 63 of them last month.

Good luck in your business.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

My opinion here, and I am also a General Manager of a dealership.

Customer went to dealership. Asked for best price.

Dealership gave customer best price.

The dealers price was not good enough ffor the customer to buy.

By the stroke of luck, the GM of the dealership is also an Extremeskins member, as is the customer.

Even after this discovery, the deal remains the same.

Sounds like integrity to me.

And FYI, the few hundred buck you just saved, may have cost you a trip to DC to find out the car is damaged or particulars of the deal, not as promised.

Now, something goes wrong, whats your next step?

Also, lets say you get the deal, that is so much better you drove that far away, what do you do when you need a service issue resolved?

In my experience, a few hundred bucks for good customer service, and having that good customer service down the street is worth it.

[chipwhich]

In my experience, a few hundred bucks for good customer service, and having that good customer service down the street is worth it.

Everything you write I agree with, with this exception.

I get good customer service from my dealer down the street even though I didn't buy my car there. They want my service business...regardless....In addition, buying a car from a dealer doesn't necessarily get you good customer service. It just gets you a car.

[Bubble Screen]

That car definitely isn't worth 35k.

[The Mayor of Fed Ex Field]

True. But what about this scenario?

Customer buys his car in DC, next week something goes horribly wrong, albiet under warranty.

lets be honest, its a machine. It happens.

If the customer bought the car from me, I would go beyond the scope of the warranty. Give him a loaner car, refill his gas tank, clean his car.

But if that customer bought a car from another dealer, threw it in my face online, I would do nothing but what my agreement with the manufacturer dictates.

Thats why i say the few hundred bucks to stay local is worth it.