Heisenberg Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I didnt ask anyone to do anything at all, no legwork needed.anyone with half a brain can see the similarities, anyone with a minimal degree of intellectual honesty would acknowledge it (at least a little, see Burgold's post). Which you proved you have almost none of in the Civil War thread . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 First off, I never said Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize - in fact I'm in the camp that thinks he didn't really do anything worthy of receiving the award.However, if you listen to the whole speech there isn't much there that resembles a speech by GWB. Obama also didn't make the decision to invade Iraq when we were already attempting to accomplish the main objective in Afghanistan. In that regard at least - Obama has been playing the hand he was dealt. I read the entire speech, I simply see a ton of similar language justifying ongoing militaristic activities between the 2 of them. I know you do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 First off, I never said Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize - in fact I'm in the camp that thinks he didn't really do anything worthy of receiving the award.However, if you listen to the whole speech there isn't much there that resembles a speech by GWB. Obama also didn't make the decision to invade Iraq when we were already attempting to accomplish the main objective in Afghanistan. In that regard at least - Obama has been playing the hand he was dealt. Waaah? He used the basic template of any American POTUS that has led us to war since the end of WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Which you proved you have almost none of in the Civil War thread . . . Nope, thats your opinion. But groovy with me. I know that I am using honesty in all my posts. (btw, wimpy tactic you just used there. Lame and weak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Yup, I think he's honest and genuine enough to be aware of it. He's said at least once that he thought he didn't deserve it, but hoped he could live up to it. Personally, I have no issue with the award itself. I actually like our President being well liked overseas What I do have issues with is denying that President Bush and President Obama are speaking in the same language when addressing these wars, and the justification for escalation in one theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 I didnt ask anyone to do anything at all, no legwork needed.anyone with half a brain can see the similarities, anyone with a minimal degree of intellectual honesty would acknowledge it (at least a little, see Burgold's post). I see the similarities you are talking about and I acknowledge them. There are even more similarities than that, even. Both of them are mammals, you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Personally, I have no issue with the award itself. I actually like our President being well liked overseasWhat I do have issues with is denying that President Bush and President Obama are speaking in the same language when addressing these wars, and the justification for escalation in one theater pretty much where I'm at too. (Though, I am a little more peeved over the award itself, but that isnt just regarding Obama's win) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I see the similarities you are talking about and I acknowledge them. There are even more similarities than that, even. Both of them are mammals, you know? well, thats good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Nope, thats your opinion. But groovy with me. I know that I am using honesty in all my posts.(btw, wimpy tactic you just used there. Lame and weak) It's true - your inability to even acknowledge that what you were trying to present may have been based mostly on opinion despite tons of evidence to the contrary made my point for me. Hell, I'm still waiting for you respond to one of Predicto's posts in that thread where he basically lays it out for you - but it was conveniently "overlooked" I'm sure. I don't doubt your intelligence at all - you've proven yourself to be very intelligent in many previous threads - but you've also shown recently that you're fine with pushing an agenda also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Personally, I have no issue with the award itself. I actually like our President being well liked overseasWhat I do have issues with is denying that President Bush and President Obama are speaking in the same language when addressing these wars, and the justification for escalation in one theater I don't think that is substantial enough to merit the award. At least not yet. The goodwill of the world right now or back then is ephemeral because he wasn't that guy and offered a better philosophy. Just in my view, I think that he has to concretize something that changes the world in a more material way (or at least one which has a longer impact) before he merits this type of award. I do think his campaign changed the zeitgeist, but you don't award a symphony based on the overture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 What I do have issues with is denying that President Bush and President Obama are speaking in the same language when addressing these wars, and the justification for escalation in one theater Iraq and Afghanistan may be in the same theater, and similar-sounding justifications may be used for them (hmm our security, maybe?) but there are some very minor differences between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 President who? The service and sacrifice of our men and women in uniform has promoted peace and prosperity from Germany to Korea, and enabled democracy to take hold in places like the Balkans. We have borne this burden not because we seek to impose our will. We have done so out of enlightened self-interest – because we seek a better future for our children and grandchildren, and we believe that their lives will be better if other peoples’ children and grandchildren can live in freedom and prosperity. One urgent example is the effort to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons, and to seek a world without them. In the middle of the last century, nations agreed to be bound by a treaty whose bargain is clear: all will have access to peaceful nuclear power; those without nuclear weapons will forsake them; and those with nuclear weapons will work toward disarmament. But it is also incumbent upon all of us to insist that nations like Iran and North Korea do not game the system. Those who claim to respect international law cannot avert their eyes when those laws are flouted. Those who care for their own security cannot ignore the danger of an arms race in the Middle East or East Asia. Those who seek peace cannot stand idly by as nations arm themselves for nuclear war. Ronald Reagan’s efforts on arms control and embrace of perestroika not only improved relations with the Soviet Union, but empowered dissidents throughout Eastern Europe. There is no simple formula here. But we must try as best we can to balance isolation and engagement; pressure and incentives, so that human rights and dignity are advanced over time. Third, a just peace includes not only civil and political rights – it must encompass economic security and opportunity. For true peace is not just freedom from fear, but freedom from want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 It's true - your inability to even acknowledge that what you were trying to present may have been based mostly on opinion despite tons of evidence to the contrary made my point for me.Hell, I'm still waiting for you respond to one of Predicto's posts in that thread where he basically lays it out for you - but it was conveniently "overlooked" I'm sure. I don't doubt your intelligence at all - you've proven yourself to be very intelligent in many previous threads - but you've also shown recently that you're fine with pushing an agenda also. I honestly cant say that I am able, or even willing to responde to every tailgate post directed at me. I try to stay on top of it, but my work day is very unpredictable and i have confines I must work within. I'll go back to that thread and see if I can figure out WTF you are even talking about. (not really sure why posts in another thread, not related to anything whatsoever to the topic in this one, are relavent. seems like you are grasping a bit.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 well, thats good? Question? I acknowledge similarities. My point is that you are ignoring meaningful differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Iraq and Afghanistan may be in the same theater, and similar-sounding justifications may be used for them (hmm our security, maybe?) but there are some very minor differences between them. I think Jon Stewart did a good job of deconstructing the Bush surge speech and the Obama surge speech You should watch. And to be honest, I am trying to figure out the "meaningful" differences between a 30k troop surge in one country, and a 30k troop surge in another country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Question?I acknowledge similarities. My point is that you are ignoring meaningful differences. such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Nice speech(as far as the posted section), I look forward to reading the rest. Maybe he will one day be worthy of the prize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think it's partially the problem of having to give a Nobel Peace speech as both as sitting President and as a President who done nothing noteworthy (policywise) in terms of securing the peace. That had to be a tough speech to craft considering the lack of noteworthy accomplishments. I would think it also a very tough speech to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heisenberg Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I honestly cant say that I am able, or even willing to responde to every tailgate post directed at me. I try to stay on top of it, but my work day is very unpredictable and i have confines I must work within.I'll go back to that thread and see if I can figure out WTF you are even talking about. (not really sure why posts in another thread, not related to anything whatsoever to the topic in this one, are relavent. seems like you are grasping a bit.) My apologies - wasn't trying to derail the thread. I just took issue with your "intellectual honesty" comment. Either way, I enjoy most of your posts even if I disagree with them - so my fault for derailing the thread. As for this particular issue - I don't think Obama deserved the award but IMHO the similarities between speeches some of you are referring to are due to the two Presidents being in the same situation - but ignores the differences between how each one got into the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 such as? If I need to point them out, that means pointing them out is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I too heard a lot of Bush in Obama's speech to justify the troop surge in Afghanistan. Not sure that could be escaped, but there was a freaky parallel... you could almost see Cheney and Rove pulling the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think Jon Stewart did a good job of deconstructing the Bush surge speech and the Obama surge speechYou should watch. And to be honest, I am trying to figure out the "meaningful" differences between a 30k troop surge in one country, and a 30k troop surge in another country I did. I watch the Daily Show maybe once or twice a month, and I managed to catch that one on TV... It was a very irresponsible thing to do for our secret political operative. And to be honest, I am trying to figure out the "meaningful" differences between a 30k troop surge in one country, and a 30k troop surge in another country errrrrrr.... different country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think its a fine speech from a man that has done nothing to deserve this award. Sucks he was put in this position by those morons who gave it to him in the first place. He cant turn it down and he looks like a tool for accepting an award for being in office 9 days. I do applaud him for making the best of an awkward situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 imho the main similarity between Obama and Bush is that they both had to try and fix the mess Bush made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexey Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 SS - also, in light of your point about similarities, how do you account for Obama being perceived so very differently by the rest of the world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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