Dan: Please re-sign Jason Campbell (merged)

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Excellent, all be it sad and totally to many on this boards detriment, analogy man.

Seriously, if they refuse to see it, the one thing I pray to the good Lord above is no other teams fans are reading this on a regular basis.

We're a complete Nationwide laughing stock as it is as both an organization and what happens on the field, without certain sections of this fan base adding to it with their delusions.

Hail.

im sure there are plenty of lurkers who get daily lols reading people defend campbells poor play. the good thing is the number of supporters has drastically decreased from the offseason, meaning some people are willing to admit they were wrong and move on. theres still a few left that just cant come to grips with truth, and will continue to provide comedy on a daily basis.

my two favorites since yesterday were "campbell had a heroic 4th quarter against the saints" and "we ran joe gibbs offense for the first 8 games of 08". the heroic thing kills me though, as campbell actually had to reference that in one of his interviews earlier this week. what QB references close to meaningless things that happened well over a season ago? i wonder if he reads these threads just to compile a list of cute little things hes accomplished to use as interview fodder.

[tshile]

while i get the 'i don't understand why anyone defends JC' stance a lot of people here take....

i personally don't get why everyone blames JC for so much. Its clear there are MANY problems on this team, a lot of which I would say help cause (if not completely, at least partially) JC's problems.

a lot of people are taking the approach of get rid of jason, over other people, because its easier to get rid of 1 person than 2 (or more). criticize JC all you want, but at the end of the day there are only a small % of QB's that could possibly succeed on this team the way we want them to, and even thats not a sure thing.

[Mahons21]

hes become the kid whos so bad in school that a D+ is cause for excitement.

reminds me of tommy boy.

"oh.....my....god......i.....PASSED!!! I GOT A D+!!!!!!"

-Ya this is what I can't quite comprehend... Since Grade school we have been taught just doing what is expected is average, its about the C range.. To get above this C you have to go above and beyond, in Jason's best 8 game stretch he had a few games where he most certainly did more than expected but for the most part he was just a C student, and people lean on this stretch to show his competence. I know this is just me rambling and probably doesn't even make sense, but someone might catch my drift.

[Mahons21]

while i get the 'i don't understand why anyone defends JC' stance a lot of people here take....

i personally don't get why everyone blames JC for so much. Its clear there are MANY problems on this team, a lot of which I would say help cause (if not completely, at least partially) JC's problems.

a lot of people are taking the approach of get rid of jason, over other people, because its easier to get rid of 1 person than 2 (or more). criticize JC all you want, but at the end of the day there are only a small % of QB's that could possibly succeed on this team the way we want them to, and even thats not a sure thing.

-I think you'd find that most people here who dislike JC understand this team has many more problems than just him... The thing is we've seen what we have in Jason, this is his fifth season with us, so even if we fix all the other pieces Jason's output still does equate to that of a top tier QB... And look at top tier teams without good QB's i.e. CAR/TEN, great o-lines, consistency, running-game etc. one thing both teams are lacking? A franchise QB.

[Mahons21]

my two favorites since yesterday were "campbell had a heroic 4th quarter against the saints" and "we ran joe gibbs offense for the first 8 games of 08". the heroic thing kills me though, as campbell actually had to reference that in one of his interviews earlier this week. what QB references close to meaningless things that happened well over a season ago? i wonder if he reads these threads just to compile a list of cute little things hes accomplished to use as interview fodder.

-Those were two of my favorites yesterday day too.

-Yup Zorn had Campbell running a Gibbs offense, than that quickly changed to uhhh well we didn't change the running game, well we all knew that, but that doesn't change the fact Campbell wasn't running a Gibbs passing game under Zorn

-That heroic 4th qtr? He for once hit a wide-open Moss, how heroic of him... Brunell to Moss twice in the 4th qtr over Dallas on MNF, that was heroic.

[darrelgreenie]

Originally Posted by Wyvern

and Lewis only trusted Campbell with 9 passes.

You see, this is the part that is truly becoming obvious. It's clear that Campbell is being tightly managed by the staff. While many QBs around the league have the offense dumped on their laps, the Redskin offense is designed to minimize Campbell as much as a QB in a pro offense can be minimized. For instance, that "Yoder Play" that Campbell botched - I guess, according to Zorn, it was a 1-read route. And Campbell kept with it while dropping back, hitting his drop, pumping, pull down, then pumping and pulling down again. WTF? A QB is only allowed to make one read on a multi-player route, when he has time to make more? They are looking to keep the game out of Campbell's hands as much as possible.

The 9-for-9 is trotted out, but the only passes that stick out to me are the screen to Thomas (all Thomas) and the slick reachback grab that Kelly had. Thomas also had a nice sideline catch on his knees, too.

The only notable throw that I can remember is the one to ARE where he stepped up in the pocket and hit ARE on a deep out - and I can't remember if that was first or second half. Man, if Campbell could make those plays seem commonplace, he would be something. But, those plays are few and far between. The only thing that he has become a master of is missing opportunities.

LoL wow!

You look at 1 play then assume every play works that same way?

No offense but thats pretty ignorant, i know you trying to prove your point but certainly you can't believe this?

We run the WCO where the QB is relied on to make multiple reads on most plays.

Even the most casual observer can see JC making reads moving his head from receiver to receiver, the announcers have even mentioned JC going through his progressions.

Taking the ball out of Campbell's hands?

Why would a team air it out when you are running the ball and Denver can't stop it?

That would be counter to all football logic.

If a team lets you run, you pound them into submission even you guys should know that.

If anything Sherman Lewis has demonstrated his faith in JC by passing more in the RZ since he took over the playcalling especially goal-to-go; Campbell is top 10 (i think top 5) in the league in RZ.

I know you guys don't want JC back next year but when you can at least give credit to your own QB going 9-9 in the second half where we came back and won; you sound like a hater.

[tshile]

-I think you'd find that most people here who dislike JC understand this team has many more problems than just him... The thing is we've seen what we have in Jason, this is his fifth season with us, so even if we fix all the other pieces Jason's output still does equate to that of a top tier QB... And look at top tier teams without good QB's i.e. CAR/TEN, great o-lines, consistency, running-game etc. one thing both teams are lacking? A franchise QB.

i agree. i think jason will have a decent career - but probably with another team. I think jason is servicable as QB, and can help a team win a championship - but he wont do it on his own, he'll need a decenltly strong team.

thats not us.

that being said, i'd rathe rkeep JC for a few more years while we build everything else up, and if he still sucks when that franchise QB is available, then grab a new QB.

I'm sick of the revolving door at QB and coach. We've ruined quite a few QB's careers, and watched quite a few go on to be successful elsewhere. I don't want us to draft a new 'franchise' QB, until this team is capable of protecting that qb, growing that QB, and winning with him. I'm sick of watching good prospects get shoved out the door by way of our terrible O line and over-rated WR's.

JC has thrown plenty of balls this year that were dropped. The list includes passes into the endzone, what would be TD passes with the run after the catch, and criticle first down plays.

I don't give a **** who you put back there, if the WR's can't catch the ball it doesn't matter. And unless we get someone with excelent scrambling ability, and out of the pocket skills, they wont succeed either, until our O line starts doing a job worthy of a B rating.

[shemp nixon]

If he checks down too quickly, and completes passes on 3rd down before the yardstick, how is this not a problem?

Why is it that people do not see this about his play?

He absolutely needs a running game to succeed...more so than a lot of other QBs. Without it, he becomes a less than average QB.

+1......By the end of this season he will have had more than 50 games to prove himself, it's time to move on. You guys can play with stats if you wish, but 17 points a game and a poor won- lost record is not getting it done.......Time to say goodbye, I wish him luck on his new team.

[darrelgreenie]

--Has anyone denied that all QB's make mistakes? People here harp on Campbell's mistakes because they seem to come at extremely inopportune moments, the type of moments you would hope your qb would make a play on

Seem is the key word here, because we focus on the Redskins you may seem to think JC makes mistakes at "inopportune" times but again every QB makes mistakes and yes some happen at inopportune times.

Like i mentioned in the earlier post the clip on Ben Rothlisberger occured in the RZ a pretty inopportune moment wouldn't you say?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Seem is the key word here, because we focus on the Redskins you may seem to think JC makes mistakes at "inopportune" times but again every QB makes mistakes and yes some happen at inopportune times.

Like i mentioned in the earlier post the clip on Ben Rothlisberger occured in the RZ a pretty inopportune moment wouldn't you say?

good QBs make up for these mistakes with big plays.

campbell does not.

can you seriously tell me you think campbell makes big plays for this team on a consistent basis like ben R does? seriously?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

roethlisburger has 8 plays of 40+ yards, and 32 plays of 20+ yards.

campbell has 3 plays of 40+ yards, and 21 plays of 20+ yards.

roethlisburger, 14 TD, 8 INT, 2469 yards

campbell, 10 TDs, 9 INTs, 1870 yards

big ben might not have had a good season statistically last year, but hes a big play QB who wins for his team. campbell is not and never will be.

[tshile]

good QBs make up for these mistakes with big plays.

campbell does not.

can you seriously tell me you think campbell makes big plays for this team on a consistent basis like ben R does? seriously?

so when we draft another QB, and he gets no protection and leads the league in sacks, and WR's contantly drop balls when they are wide open, will you declare that QB a bust too? Will you ignore the dropped balls and the constantly breaking down protection?

Because, the way this team is going, and as history has shown, thats whats going to happen. Being drafted as a QB to the redskins is a deathsentence, much like it is in oakland.

How many QB's do we have to draft, and ruin, before people realize that maybe it isn't the QB's fault (at least not entirely).

For every over/under/poorly thrown ball, I can show you a wide open WR dropping a ball - that goes for critical situations too.

For every check down, I can show terrible protection.

Is campbell a great QB? No, I'm not going to say that. Has he made terrible decisions at times? Yeah.

Has he been given a lot to work with? Not exactly...

Edit: I also realize other QB's have done more with less. But those are few and far between, and JC is obviously not one of them.

[morpheusmeyers]

roethlisburger has 8 plays of 40+ yards, and 32 plays of 20+ yards.

campbell has 3 plays of 40+ yards, and 21 plays of 20+ yards.

roethlisburger, 14 TD, 8 INT, 2469 yards

campbell, 10 TDs, 9 INTs, 1870 yards

By the way, Big Ben's 14 TD's so far this season are already more than Campbell's CAREER high of 13 in a season.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

so when we draft another QB, and he gets no protection and leads the league in sacks, and WR's contantly drop balls when they are wide open, will you declare that QB a bust too? Will you ignore the dropped balls and the constantly breaking down protection?

have we ever had a QB that leads the league in sacks? not to my knowledge. is this QB going to hold on to the ball forever and get sacked on his own? will he be slow and indecisive? will he have poor accuracy and a tendency to take easy completions constantly?

if so, yes he'll be a bust, and we can move on from him as well. hopefully we'll know before 50 friggin starts.

Because, the way this team is going, and as history has shown, thats whats going to happen. Being drafted as a QB to the redskins is a deathsentence, much like it is in oakland.

right, because weve never drafted a good QB we should just stop cause itll never happen right? when was the last time the redskins had hit on a DE in the draft? 1980 something with mann or manley? maybe we shouldnt have drafted orakpo, i mean itd been 20 years since we had a good one, lets just give up and not draft one.

orakpo is legit, with your attitude he'd have never been drafted because we hadnt hit on a DE in forever. and the redskins have missed now on the last high drafted QBs: shuler, ramsey, campbell. there are plenty of teams who have missed on more than that and still keep plugging away. by your logic the chargers shouldnt have drafted brees or rivers cause ryan leaf made being a QB in SD "a death sentence".

How many QB's do we have to draft, and ruin, before people realize that maybe it isn't the QB's fault (at least not entirely).

For every over/under/poorly thrown ball, I can show you a wide open WR dropping a ball - that goes for critical situations too.

For every check down, I can show terrible protection.

as many as it takes until we find the right one. no clue where your quitter like attitude is coming from. you dont just give up when you dont find the right one, we need to keep looking. we havent had good QB play here in a long time, the last time we did (brunell in 05) the team was at its strongest, scoring a ton of points. same oline from 04 that went 6-10, except brunell sucked that year. suddenly he plays better and wow, paloffs.

QB is the #1 position, its why those guys get paid out the ass, and why theyre so sought after. its why a guy like cutler whos struggling garnered multiple 1st rounders. QBs are the #1 commodity. no GM in their right mind would just stop trying to find one. except maybe vinny? lol

Is campbell a great QB? No, I'm not going to say that. Has he made terrible decisions at times? Yeah.

Has he been given a lot to work with? Not exactly...

BS. hes been giving a top flight run game and top flight defense and hes failed with it for years. this whole "woe is campbell" crap is so tired its pathetic. the guy was handed an ideal situation and he screwed it up. just because our oline sucks now doesnt mean it did in 07 and 08.

[morpheusmeyers]

so when we draft another QB, and he gets no protection and leads the league in sacks, and WR's contantly drop balls when they are wide open, will you declare that QB a bust too? Will you ignore the dropped balls and the constantly breaking down protection?

Campbell doesn't lead the league in sacks. Aaron Rodgers does and it's not even close. And neither are his stats compared to Campbell's.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

roethlisburger has 8 plays of 40+ yards, and 32 plays of 20+ yards.

campbell has 3 plays of 40+ yards, and 21 plays of 20+ yards.

roethlisburger, 14 TD, 8 INT, 2469 yards

campbell, 10 TDs, 9 INTs, 1870 yards

big ben might not have had a good season statistically last year, but hes a big play QB who wins for his team. campbell is not and never will be

Man, for his CAREER, through 5 years, the last 4 or so on the actual field of play starting, and 45 games; he has less than 100 completions in the mid-range 20-40 yard bracket, and a WHOPPING 13 of 40 or more yards, from 843 passing attempts.

Is it any wonder he can so readily reference back to the Siants game last year when he's only THIRTEEN long completions to pick from?

And all the above isn't taking into account YAC, which on the mid-range numbers particularly, Cooley has taken there on WAY more times than anyone cares to remember.

Hail.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

By the way, Big Ben's 14 TD's so far this season are already more than Campbell's CAREER high of 13 in a season.

cause roethlisburger is a playmaker. his playmaking skills in crunch time are right up there with brady/manning/brees. hes nowhere near the QB as those guys are for most of the game, but when you need that big play, somehow his brain goes into "im a monster" mode and he gets it done.

[Mahons21]

Seem is the key word here, because we focus on the Redskins you may seem to think JC makes mistakes at "inopportune" times but again every QB makes mistakes and yes some happen at inopportune times.

-I told you all Qb's make mistakes I'm agreeing with you on that.. But it seems to me, maybe not you, that at these inopportune moments, you can usually either make a big play or make a big mistake... Through Campbell's tenure here, from my memory, the ratio isn't quite what I want it to be.. Keep in mind I do have high expectations from the QB positions because I believe teams can only truly compete year in and year out with a franchise QB.

Like i mentioned in the earlier post the clip on Ben Rothlisberger occured in the RZ a pretty inopportune moment wouldn't you say?

-Completely inopportune he made the completely wrong read... But there have also been a multitude of plays that broke down and Ben has pulled some magic bunny out of his hat and created a huge play and so on... Does the good out-weigh the bad?

-Lastly I would like to apologize if I came off overly hostile yesterday, obviously this debate has gotten frustrating for all of us, outside of Jason Campbell, I'd say I respect almost of your football knowledge, and have learned tons from you. I understand my Peyton Manning comparison was too far-fetched (I've been sick, maybe that liquid codeine was doing a little bit too much of the talking).. But just a little extra FYI, that 8 game stretch x2, doesn't equal Kyle Orton's TD output last year either, not saying thats the end all be all, but thats a pretty depressing statistic, in my view.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Man, for his CAREER, through 5 years, the last 4 or so on the actual field of play starting, and 45 games, he has less than 100 completions in the mid-range 20-40 yard bracket, and a WHOPPING 13 of 40 or more yards, from 843 passing attempts.

Is it any wonder he can so readily reference back to the Siants game last year when he only THIRTEEN long completions to pick from?

And all the above isn't taking into account YAC, which on the mid-range numbers particularly, Cooley has taken there on WAY more times than anyone cares to remember.

Hail.

mark brunell had 11 completions of 40+ yards alone in 2005.

[Mahons21]

cause roethlisburger is a playmaker. his playmaking skills in crunch time are right up there with brady/manning/brees. hes nowhere near the QB as those guys are for most of the game, but when you need that big play, somehow his brain goes into "im a monster" mode and he gets it done.

-Steve Young said it best a few weeks ago, I can't quote him verbatim but it went like "QB's are judged by what they do on 3rd downs, and 4th qtrs"

[morpheusmeyers]

cause roethlisburger is a playmaker. his playmaking skills in crunch time are right up there with brady/manning/brees. hes nowhere near the QB as those guys are for most of the game, but when you need that big play, somehow his brain goes into "im a monster" mode and he gets it done.

Roethlisberger is one of 14 QB's who have more than 13 TD's so far this season. So the season is only a little over half done, and nearly half the starting QB's in the league already have more TD's than Campbell's CAREER high.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Roethlisberger is one of 14 QB's who have more than 13 TD's so far this season. So the season is only a little over half done, and nearly half the starting QB's in the league already have more TD's than Campbell's CAREER high.

the campbell defense team doesnt care about touchdowns scored. if they did theyd have gotten off that boat loooong ago.

[Botched]

so when we draft another QB, and he gets no protection and leads the league in sacks, and WR's contantly drop balls when they are wide open, will you declare that QB a bust too? Will you ignore the dropped balls and the constantly breaking down protection?

Because, the way this team is going, and as history has shown, thats whats going to happen. Being drafted as a QB to the redskins is a deathsentence, much like it is in oakland.

How many QB's do we have to draft, and ruin, before people realize that maybe it isn't the QB's fault (at least not entirely).

For every over/under/poorly thrown ball, I can show you a wide open WR dropping a ball - that goes for critical situations too.

For every check down, I can show terrible protection.

Is campbell a great QB? No, I'm not going to say that. Has he made terrible decisions at times? Yeah.

Has he been given a lot to work with? Not exactly...

Edit: I also realize other QB's have done more with less. But those are few and far between, and JC is obviously not one of them.

Just FYI, according to stats.com, the Redskins are ranked #25 in dropped passes so far this year.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that Green Bay was #5 (Only the Lions, Raiders, Browns, and Chiefs have dropped more). So not only does Aaron Rodgers have possibly the worst O line in the league, his receivers have also dropped twice as many passes as ours. And yet he is still playing well.

[Mahons21]

Just FYI, according to stats.com, the Redskins are ranked #25 in dropped passes so far this year.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that Green Bay was #5 (Only the Lions, Raiders, Browns, and Chiefs have dropped more). So not only does Aaron Rodgers have possibly the worst O line in the league, his receivers have also dropped twice as many passes as ours. And yet he is still playing well.

-Don't bring stats into the equation, its far too logical too actually look at how many dropped passes have occurred on the individual teams... Rather just decide that since Campbell isn't playing as well as Rodgers it must be because his receivers are dropping more balls.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Just FYI, according to stats.com, the Redskins are ranked #25 in dropped passes so far this year.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that Green Bay was #5 (Only the Lions, Raiders, Browns, and Chiefs have dropped more). So not only does Aaron Rodgers have possibly the worst O line in the league, his receivers have also dropped twice as many passes as ours. And yet he is still playing well.

thats because the campbell fan club thinks a drop is any ball thrown within 10 yards of a receiver. so when santana has to contort his body into a pretzel, that would impress the latvian ringling brothers trapeze artists, to catch a pass and he misses it, thats a drop.

our receivers dont drop a lot of passes, again proving that plenty of you dont watch other NFL games aside from ours.