Dan: Please re-sign Jason Campbell (merged)

[darrelgreenie]

By definition, going 9-9 in the second half means the receivers did not drop the ball.

I guess i should have made it clear that i was refering to the 1st half drops because i thought it was obvious i wasn't talking about drops in relation to going 9-9.

I'd be more impressed if Campbell supporters started offering up what Campbell does really well. Sure, he plays "safe", but what does he do really well? Is it reading/diagnosing defenses? His pocket presence? His touch passing? His clutch play? His strong on-field leadership? His long bomb passing? ...What?

Remember YOU asked; i don't even know why i bother your mind is already made up....

o dude is tough

o he stays within the scheme and doesn't throw crazy interceptions

o teammates like him

o above average mobility for bootlegs and roll-outs

o above average arm strength

o can make all the passes (even these dink 3 step passes)

o good play-action passer

From: http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:vSJKppXc0FgJ:www.homermcfanboy.com/2009/08/20/campbell-haters-beware/+Jason+Campbell+football+outsiders&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Here’s what Redskins fans know about last season: Campbell completed 62.3 percent of his passes, threw for 3,245 yards with 13 touchdowns and six interceptions and had a QB rating of 84.3.

Here’s what most fans don’t know about last season (again, courtesy of Football Outsiders Almanac):

1. Campbell’s receivers led the league in dropped passes with 39. We repeat – Redskins receivers dropped more passes than anyone else in football in 2008.
   
2. Receivers Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El both ranked in the top 10 in the NFL in dropped passes. Moss ranked second with 12 (behind only Cleveland’s Braylon Edwards with 15), while Randle El was tied for ninth with nine drops.
   
3. Running back Clinton Portis only had six drops. Compared to Moss and Randle El that seems okay, but he was actually third in the league in percentage of dropped passes (17 percent).
   
4. Campbell was also in the top 10 in the NFL last season in passes defended with 50 – meaning if Campbell threw a “jump ball,” more times than not, the defender beat the receiver on the play.
   
5. Campbell was sixth best in the league in percentage of overthrown passes. He overthrew his wideouts 18 times, which works out to 3.6 percent. Conversely, Derek Anderson of the Browns overthrew his receivers a league-worst nine percent of the time.
   
6. Campbell was second best in the NFL in underthrown passes (6.4 percent), trailing only Matt Schaub of the Houston Texans (4.9 percent). It should also be noted that Campbell attempted 126 more passes than the injury-prone Schaub. Oakland’s JaMarcus Russell led the league in underthrown passes (16.5 percent).
   
7. Campbell was fifth in the NFL in QB hits with 47, and tied for third in quarterback knockdowns with 88. In fact, Campbell got knocked down more than 16 percent of the time he dropped back to pass, which was eighth most in the league.
   
8. In spite of all of this, Campbell was eighth in the NFL in quarterback accuracy at 85.7. This statistic factors in passes that are not thrown ahead or behind, overthrown or underthrown or out of bounds.
   

More from: http://footballoutsiders.com/extra-points/2009/jason-campbells-sack-rate

The guys at Turf Show Times are wondering whether Jason Campbell might be a good fit for them next year as a free agent.

They raised several concerns about Campbell in the piece.

Concerns I have about Campbell: 1) How does the high sack rate impact his future, 2) He'll turns 29 next season, a year younger than Kyle Boller, is that too old for a rebuilding team, and 3) Is he enough?

I'm not sure about points two or three, but point one is pretty easy to look at. I went to the wonderful Play Index at pro-football-reference.com to create a list of similar players to Campbell.

Campbell has 228 attempts and 25 sacks through eight games, yielding a sack rate of 9.9 percent. If we double those totals, he'd be at 456 attempts and 50 sacks for a full season. To find similar quarterbacks to Campbell, I instructed the Play Index to find every quarterback since 1980 who had been sacked between 45 and 55 times in a season while throwing between 430 and 480 attempts.

The resulting list includes a few scrubs (David Carr, Tim Couch) and a LOT of good quarterbacks.

It's a list that Campbell's numbers, so far this year, belong in. He has a 66.2 completion percentage, higher than any of the quarterbacks on the list, while his 7.36 yards per attempt place him eighth out of 18. If you prefer to use p-f-r's Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt, he ranks ninth. (On the other hand, his adjusted yards per attempt, which doesn't include the effects of sacks, would be 15th.)

Looking at comparable seasons suggests that Campbell's performance this year is a positive indicator of his ability to play a successful quarterback going forward, perception be damned.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Remember YOU asked; i don't even know why i bother your mind is already made up....

o dude is tough

o he stays within the scheme and doesn't throw crazy interceptions

o teammates like him

o above average mobility for bootlegs and roll-outs

o above average arm strength

o can make all the passes (even these dink 3 step passes)

o good play-action passer

this is where the sad aspect comes in.

dude is tough. lol, who cares how "tough" he is. you have 0 clue about his "toughness". this is the NFL. every guy is "tough". what a lame reason.

stays within the scheme and doesnt throw crazy interceptions? hes got 8 already, on pace for his most ever in a season. and he doesnt throw picks because he plays it safe. ive posted his numbers for deeper passes and longer throws, he refuses to throw them, thus limiting his INTs, which is why he has 0 big play ability.

teammates like him? WHO CARES. this isnt a popularity contest. and frankly, thats a baseless claim. you have no idea what anyones opinion of him is. this is getting sad.

above average mobility? wow, he can move around in the pocket. too bad he cant make NFL throws.

above average arm strength: see jamarcus russell.

can make all the passes? *waves bye bye* - your credibility. even you cant say this with a straight face. hes horrid on the deep ball and any pass involving touch.

good playaction passer: you can have this. hes good in playaction.

what a monster list. lets extend this guy. you just summed up any underdog backup QB in the league. this is sage rosenfels.

[General NSJ]

Just FYI, according to stats.com, the Redskins are ranked #25 in dropped passes so far this year.

As an aside, I thought it was interesting that Green Bay was #5 (Only the Lions, Raiders, Browns, and Chiefs have dropped more). So not only does Aaron Rodgers have possibly the worst O line in the league, his receivers have also dropped twice as many passes as ours. And yet he is still playing well.

I, for one, am eagerly anticipating the Campbell Defense Team pick this nugget apart.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I, for one, am eagerly anticipating the Campbell Defense Team pick this nugget apart.

its easy, all theyll do is blame everyone else. itll be the WR, the routes, the playcalls, the blocking, anything possible to deflect blame off of captain overthrow.

[Mahons21]

DG, not saying, football outsiders almanac isn't an incredibly reliable source, but like all literature you have to understand who is writing the piece... The section written on the Redskins was written by a single man, who in my opinion clearly favored Jason Campbell, so much so the point that, not a single other source has Moss or ARE even in the top 10 for dropped passes, which is clearly a stat that comes from the eye of the beholder... When I see a major difference in one source from all others, it leads me to question the objectivity of the source.

EDIT** please read my post 593 in this thread

[Mahons21]

I, for one, am eagerly anticipating the Campbell Defense Team pick this nugget apart.

Rodgers is at fault for many of his sacks, which is true but still doesn't change the fact that he has an awful offensive line, and certainly one of the worst in the league. That's my guess for what they'll say

[darrelgreenie]

dude is tough. lol, who cares how "tough" he is. you have 0 clue about his "toughness". this is the NFL. every guy is "tough". what a lame reason.

Typical.

I would address the rest of your post but it would be pointless.

I'll just address the 1st and most absurd.

Toughness is often the No.1 attribute the former coaches and QBs look for in a QB.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Typical.

I would address the rest of your post but it would be pointless.

I'll just address the 1st and most absurd.

Toughness is often the No.1 attribute the former coaches and QBs look for in a QB.

lol at typical. you saying hes tough and people like him and that his arm is strong is about the most absurd thing i can think of. all you did was literally summarize jamarcus russell sans the picks.

any QBs in the league that arent tough? please let me know exactly who is and who isnt tough, and then tell why campbell is tough.

[darrelgreenie]

DG, not saying, football outsiders almanac isn't an incredibly reliable source, but like all literature you have to understand who is writing the piece... The section written on the Redskins was written by a single man, who in my opinion clearly favored Jason Campbell, so much so the point that, not a single other source has Moss or ARE even in the top 10 for dropped passes, which is clearly a stat that comes from the eye of the beholder... When I see a major difference in one source from all others, it leads me to question the objectivity of the source.

EDIT** please read my post 593 in this thread

I don't know if the stats is accurate or not because i didn't look it up myself, but on the whole their site is accurate.

You could be right that stat could be inaccurate but i still wouldn't put Moss and ARE near the top of a WR list.

The point of that post was a response to Wyvern's question like i said i already know you guys don't agree but Wyvern.

I read it,cool beans bro

HTTR!

[KokoMike]

Typical.

I would address the rest of your post but it would be pointless.

I'll just address the 1st and most absurd.

Toughness is often the No.1 attribute the former coaches and QBs look for in a QB.

Your last comment is highly questionable. The # 1 attribute? What is your source for that?

Here is what Marc Trestman views as the 4 qualities necessary for success in the NFL. Do you want to debate this qualities as they relate to Jason Campbell?

1. The quarterback needs to have the ability to make all the throws required to attack a defense on every play. This includes the arm strength to throw the deep out, the feel to drop a deep ball into a receiver’s hands down the field, the touch to hit a running back out of the backfield, etc.

2. Quarterbacks need to be able to make quick and decisive decisions under pressure. You not only want an intelligent quarterback in the pocket but also a quarterback who has the instincts to feel pressure and create a play when things break down.

3. The quarterback needs to be mobile in some capacity and have an ability to avoid the rush in one of three ways:

A. The ability to side-step pressure in the pocket.

B. The ability to get outside the pocket and accurately deliver the ball on the move.

C. The ability to scramble and gain yards beyond the line of scrimmage.

4. The quarterback must be tough and be able to stare down the barrel of the shotgun, take a hit, get up and do it again. It takes a special type of player who can take a shot, dust himself off and rally his team on the next play, but the quarterback needs that type of quality.

[Mahons21]

I don't know if the stats is accurate or not because i didn't look it up myself, but on the whole their site is accurate.

-I agree 100%, and they are extremely credible as a whole, but it was only a single member of there organization that wrote the part on the skins

You could be right that stat could be inaccurate but i still wouldn't put Moss and ARE near the top of a WR list.

-No you are most certainly correct they were close to the top of the list, but saying they were both top 10 is inaccurate in my opinion.

The point of that post was a response to Wyvern's question like i said i already know you guys don't agree but Wyvern asked why.

-Ya I hear you.. You put forth a good argument, I was just hoping to show that if only one guy seems to think they both rank top 10 and virtually every other source doesn't have either in the top 10, the guy might not be quite as objective as you would hope an author from such a credible source would be.

I read it,cool beans bro

HTTR!

-Just wanted to apologize, I came off overly hostile for a multitude over reasons but you weren't one of them.. Your not one of these posters that just spills filth and doesn't back it up, or attacks posters without ever supporting their own opinion... You have your opinion and though I disagree with it, I admire your loyalty and back-bone to be unwaivering in your position it is something to be commended not looked down upon.

[IrepDC]

I, for one, am eagerly anticipating the Campbell Defense Team pick this nugget apart.

That site, for one, only has TWO dropped passes listed for Santana Moss. Off the top of my head I remember 2 in the ATL game alone that hit him right in the hands(the back shoulder fade in the redzone and the fade in the endzone), throw in that deep ball that Collins threw, and I'd say this sites "drop" stats are wrong.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5463&team=28

[KokoMike]

What would Bill Walsh think about attributes for a successful NFL QB, and Jason Campbell? I don't know but here is that article about Bill Walsh's most important attributes...attributes which Al Saunders believes Colt Brennan has:

I have to wonder what Walsh would say about him. Sadly, Walsh passed away last year, and we can’t ask him, but he did leave behind a legacy of coaching philosophy that has helped shape the last 20 years of football.

Former Redskins offensive coordinator Al Saunders had this to say when applying some of that philosophy to Colt Brennan: “Bill Walsh used to say the most important attributes for a quarterback are accuracy, courage and intelligence. Those things all override a strong arm, and this kid has them.”

Okay, so let’s break it down:

First, let’s look at ACCURACY:

During an interview at the Senior Bowl, 49er Offensive Coordinator Mike Martz said that technique and mechanics can be coached—accuracy is God-given; it’s something that can’t be coached.

Brennan set an efficiency rating record in ’06 with 185.96; in ’07, it was 159.85. His pass completion rate in ’06 was 72.5%, and 70.4% in ’07. These statistics are computed with yards, completions, TD’s and interceptions in relation to total passes attempted for each quarterback—so they are quite useful in comparing the accuracy and efficiency of one quarterback against others’.

Former UH Coach June Jones had this to say “’He can make every throw. He completed close to 70 percent of his passes. I would say 50 percent of the quarterbacks playing in the NFL can’t do that against air. He did it in games. He throws them all. He’s accurate on the deep balls, the intermediate routes, the short throws.’”

So how about INTELLIGENCE?

You have to look at film from Brennan’s entire football career to get a feel for this—not just from the Sugar Bowl and Senior Bowls—from Pop Warner days through college. It’s Brennan’s ability to ad-lib and connect with his receivers when plays break down—call it a 6th sense, call it intuition, call it intelligence—Brennan has “it”.

COURAGE can take different forms in sports:

Courage to face public and media scrutiny: What draft prospect this year (or even in previous years) has had every aspect of his character and talent as scrutinized as Brennan? Brennan has endured waves of public criticism—much of it, I have observed, based on hearsay, inaccurate reporting, and internet blog “gossip”.

Courage, determination, and perseverance—a never quit, but BELIEVE attitude that helped lift his team to spectacular come-from-behind wins, and an undefeated season. Courage to do the right thing, even though it might be detrimental to himself. Courage to take full responsibility for losses instead of blaming someone else. Courage to play in the Senior Bowl, even though he was hurt, and 20 pounds under his normal weight due to illness.

So here’s what I think Bill Walsh would say: “If you’re thinking about ‘stealing’ Brennan in a later round, think twice. Brennan is a special quarterback, the kind that doesn’t come around very often—the kind with the accuracy, intelligence, and courage it takes to win football games and take teams to the next level. He might be gone before you know it.”

[21forlyfe]

keep JC,fix the other problems with this team.The whole "getting better" process is going to take YEARS!.Letting Jc,and CP,go without any lucrative draft picks,or free agent signing,dosen't make any sense IMO

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That site, for one, only has TWO dropped passes listed for Santana Moss. Off the top of my head I remember 2 in the ATL game alone that hit him right in the hands(the back shoulder fade in the redzone and the fade in the endzone), throw in that deep ball that Collins threw, and I'd say this sites "drop" stats are wrong.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=5463&team=28

again, drops arent considered acrobatic misses which many of you like to claim as nice passes.

here is the washington post stats for dropped, moss doesnt even make the list which stops at 4 drops, nor does a single redskins pass catcher.

but im sure youll claim their numbers are wrong as well.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=

[Buck812]

its easy, all theyll do is blame everyone else. itll be the WR, the routes, the playcalls, the blocking, anything possible to deflect blame off of captain overthrow.

Or you can blame him for everything everyone else is doing... Which is it? Thats the million dollar question. Everyone has an opinion but thats all it is and untill we get a real GM in here to figure it out thats all it will be.

I can tell you this though, all this hatred spewed from the fans may possibly be enough run JC out of town like the agenda boys want. If it does though and it ends up being a mistake then you will only have yourselves to blame.

To me, its much wiser to support your team and hope we get someone in here who actually knows what the hell theyre doing to figure it out which is why I will be in Dallas this weekend showing my support for JC.

:point2sky

[IrepDC]

again, drops arent considered acrobatic misses which many of you like to claim as nice passes.

here is the washington post stats for dropped, moss doesnt even make the list which stops at 4 drops, nor does a single redskins pass catcher.

but im sure youll claim their numbers are wrong as well.

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=NFL&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=

The 3 passes I pointed out that Moss has dropped were not acrobatic. The fade stop hit both hands and the fade hit both hands. And I'm sure you aren't going to discredit Collins' throw so that makes 3 drops, off the top of my head. I proved my point that the sites dropped stats were inaccurate and that's not debatable.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The 3 passes I pointed out that Moss has dropped were not acrobatic. The fade stop hit both hands and the fade hit both hands. And I'm sure you aren't going to discredit Collins' throw so that makes 3 drops, off the top of my head. I proved my point that the sites dropped stats were inaccurate and that's not debatable.

so please explain to me then how two different sites are both wrong, yet you are somehow right? and i cant remember specific drops from games, as they dont actually happen very often.

or maybe what you call a drop isnt what is "technically" considered a drop?

and of course its debatable. maybe they dont include drops on awful passes, which we know campbell throws a lot of. lol

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Or you can blame him for everything everyone else is doing... Which is it? Thats the million dollar question. Everyone has an opinion but thats all it is and untill we get a real GM in here to figure it out thats all it will be.

I can tell you this though, all this hatred spewed from the fans may possibly be enough run JC out of town like the agenda boys want. If it does though and it ends up being a mistake then you will only have yourselves to blame.

To me, its much wiser to support your team and hope we get someone in here who actually knows what the hell theyre doing to figure it out which is why I will be in Dallas this weekend showing my support for JC.

:point2sky

i spent enough time blaming others, its time for campbell to take the fall for his own poor play.

how could it be a mistake? if he ends up going somewhere else and plays well? we arent one of the other 31 teams in the league. if hes not suited to play with this roster, then he needs to be somewhere else.

and lets be real, its incredibly doubtful he produces anywhere else. i remember hearing all this about ramsey as well like clockwork, and hes out of the league.

[Drastik]

i dont really care to join in on this argument

but i can remember Moss dropping a perfectly placed Campbell pass that was a fade route in the endzone.. would have been an easy TD..

it was against Atlanta believe

[IrepDC]

so please explain to me then how two different sites are both wrong, yet you are somehow right? and i cant remember specific drops from games, as they dont actually happen very often.

or maybe what you call a drop isnt what is "technically" considered a drop?

and of course its debatable. maybe they dont include drops on awful passes, which we know campbell throws a lot of. lol

None of the passes I pointed out were awful. You admit you don't remember the plays but you're arguing that the passes were inaccurate, that's foolish. If you don't remember than maybe step back and let someone who remembers make that argument.

And I'm not sure why the sites are wrong, but they are. I've watched every Redskins game this season and Moss has dropped more than 2 passes this SEASON.

And for comparisons sake, the same site has Donald Driver listed with 4 drops. I've watched every Packers game this year as well and the ONLY passes Driver drops are those acrobatic ones you claim aren't listed(Minus 2, 1 against Minn and 1 against Dal). Other than that he never drops anything but this site has 4 listed for him so obviously the acrobatics are included.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

i dont really care to join in on this argument

but i can remember Moss dropping a perfectly placed Campbell pass that was a fade route in the endzone.. would have been an easy TD..

it was against Atlanta believe

according to at least 2 sites, moss has 2 drops on the year.

according to the fan club, he has at least 3. and whats funny about that, is that still wouldnt even place him in the top 20 for drops in the NFC alone.

[Mahons21]

Or you can blame him for everything everyone else is doing... Which is it? Thats the million dollar question. Everyone has an opinion but thats all it is and untill we get a real GM in here to figure it out thats all it will be.

-Why can't it be both? A bad QB, surrounded by a lot of sub-par talent, certainly we have our bright spots on D, and Cooley on O... I for one think there's a lot of blame to go around to everyone, but Campbell isn't excluded because of his teammates.

I can tell you this though, all this hatred spewed from the fans may possibly be enough run JC out of town like the agenda boys want. If it does though and it ends up being a mistake then you will only have yourselves to blame.

-I can't believe you honestly think our "hatred" will run him out of town, Eli has won a SB and after a few bad games there fans want him benched, thats hatred.. Campbell's been here for years and it just doesn't seem like he can cut it, has he had ideal circumstances? No, but how many QB's really do?

To me, its much wiser to support your team and hope we get someone in here who actually knows what the hell theyre doing to figure it out which is why I will be in Dallas this weekend showing my support for JC.

:point2sky

-You seem to be making a claim that some of us don't support Campbell when he's on the field, which is something you have zero, absolutely zero knowledge of. I for one can say I root for him every Sunday, we spend hours on this site because we are all fans, in the end all we want is to succeed. Just because we disagree on the paths to success, does not mean we don't root for our team, be realistic.

[wdcredskins]

Or you can blame him for everything everyone else is doing... Which is it? Thats the million dollar question. Everyone has an opinion but thats all it is and untill we get a real GM in here to figure it out thats all it will be.

I can tell you this though, all this hatred spewed from the fans may possibly be enough run JC out of town like the agenda boys want. If it does though and it ends up being a mistake then you will only have yourselves to blame.

To me, its much wiser to support your team and hope we get someone in here who actually knows what the hell theyre doing to figure it out which is why I will be in Dallas this weekend showing my support for JC.

:point2sky

How do you blame everybody else for over throwing balls to receivers? how do you blame everybody else for inaccruacy?

how do you blame everybody else for holding the ball too long and causing his own sacks?

how do you blame everybody else for throwing to check downs most of the time?

how do you blame everybody else for not being able to read defense prior to snap of the ball?

how do you blame everybody else for having no pckt presence?

how do you blame everybody else for not being able to throw in stride?

how do you blame everybody else for not being able to throw in tight spots?

how do you blame.... ahhhh u get the point. or maybe not.

you can support jason candle as much as you want. no one is going to stop you. but we want to win and win big. as in winning the super bowl. with candle, not a chance. he is one of the worst starting QB in the league. if u want to spend your money and support somebody that was lucky enough to be at the right place at the right time and does not deserve his starting position and salary, more power to you. but to me, it is more wise to let your opinion's be heard about certain players or teams if they arent doing their job.

[IrepDC]

i dont really care to join in on this argument

but i can remember Moss dropping a perfectly placed Campbell pass that was a fade route in the endzone.. would have been an easy TD..

it was against Atlanta believe

Yep that's one of the ones I listed. Add the Collins deep ball and that's already 2 for the season that aren't debatable. That site, for whatever reason, is wrong.