If Samuels retires, what are the salary cap ramifications?

[Est.1974]

In most cases, if a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Thus, the team will take an immediate salary cap hit of the remaining signing bonus.

This is probably a major factor in this decision. It just has to be, as the 'skins can't 'afford' this to happen.

[MrJL]

My team is on the field.

considering we can only suit up 45 that really doesn't matter.

[Est.1974]

From Real Redskins http://realredskins.com/2009/10/samuels%e2%80%99-decision-has-salary-cap-implications.html

Chris Samuels has every right to take his time before making a final decision to retire due to his neck injury and there’s no reason to doubt that he would like to come back if at all possible.

But all indications are that he is leaning towards hanging up the No. 60 jersey that has been a fixture on the Redskins’ line all of this decade. If, as doctors reportedly have told him, he risks paralysis by continuing to play, why not go ahead and call it a career?

One reason among many is money. If Samuels were to formally retire this week, or at any time during the season, his unallocated bonuses would accelerate into this season’s salary cap. Samuels reworked his contract before both the 2008 and 2009 seasons. He lowered his base salary both years and got the difference in various guarantees and bonuses.

Along with the other bonuses and guarantees that Samuels has picked up in the past several years, the cap hit for putting Samuels on the retired list this year would be, according to the unofficial information on The Warpath, a whopping $19.4 million. That, of course, would put the Redskins way over the cap and cause all manner of problems.

By the way, this situation brings light to the dangerous game that the Redskins have been playing with reworking contracts in order to get under cap and sign free agents. There is a possibility, albeit a slim one, that there will be a salary cap in 2010. If there is, the Redskins will have to figure out how to deal with over $14 million in dead cap charges due to Samuels’ expected retirement. Add on to that the $9.4 million hit that would be accelerated if Randy Thomas, who will be 34 in January, retires or is released and you have a very sticky situation should 2010 end up being a capped year.

Also, Samuels’ decision would not affect his 2009 salary of $2 million. As a vested veteran, his salary for the year became guaranteed when he was on the active roster for the season opener.

All things considered, the proper thing to do is to put Samuels on injured reserve for the rest of 2009, give him some time to consider his decision, perhaps gather a few more medical opinions, and make a final, formal decision in January.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

considering we can only suit up 45 that really doesn't matter.

True...just trying to quote one of the best sports movies of all time.

[DallasSucks19922010]

Why do you people care about the salary cap?

[Rufus T Firefly]

From Real Redskins http://realredskins.com/2009/10/samuels%e2%80%99-decision-has-salary-cap-implications.html

That 9.4 mil hit they quote on Thomas would appear to be his release fee if let go this year, not next year as they said.

It looks like the net hit from Thomas and Samuels retiring would be a little over 10 mil combined.

[KDawg]

Why do you people care about the salary cap?

What do you mean, "you people"?

[Est.1974]

That 9.4 mil hit they quote on Thomas would appear to be his release fee if let go this year, not next year as they said.

It looks like the net hit from Thomas and Samuels retiring would be a little over 10 mil combined.

I suppose the point is we have no space this year. Thus, no retirements, IMO.

Next years, its all change / or it should be. And the cap hit probably won't matter.

[Rufus T Firefly]

I suppose the point is we have no space this year. Thus' date=' no retirements, IMO.

Next years, its all change / or it should be. And the cap hit probably won't matter.[/quote']

Although I don't know what the NFL would do about it. I don't remember seeing it ever come up. I mean, a team in compliance with the cap halfway thru the season and then a player retires, putting them way over the cap. That could happen to a lot of teams, and I'm not sure how you punish them for it, or why you should.

[polywog999]

What do you mean, "you people"?

What do YOU mean you people?

[KDawg]

What do YOU mean you people?

Well played. Glad someone saw what I was going for there.

Uhhh to keep this thread on topic.

Cap problems are bad.

[polywog999]

Well played. Glad someone saw what I was going for there.

Uhhh to keep this thread on topic.

Cap problems are bad.

We'll be alright. We always handle the cap.

[Est.1974]

Although I don't know what the NFL would do about it. I don't remember seeing it ever come up. I mean, a team in compliance with the cap halfway thru the season and then a player retires, putting them way over the cap. That could happen to a lot of teams, and I'm not sure how you punish them for it, or why you should.

The cap rule is noted in posts #11 & #26 ;

In most cases, if a player retires, the remaining signing bonus that has not been included in salary “accelerates” and is included in that year’s team salary. Thus, the team will take an immediate salary cap hit of the remaining signing bonus.

I suppose there are 'other' cases.

[KDawg]

We'll be alright. We always handle the cap.

Until we don't, I agree. But one of these days this is going to come back and bite us. Probably not like the media would like it to, but it could hurt us somewhere down the line. Although, if there's anything Snyder is good at, it's getting passed the salary cap.

[Rufus T Firefly]

The cap rule is noted in posts #11 & #26 ;

I suppose there are 'other' cases.

I got that. What I'm saying is, I don't know what the league would do about it. If Samuels retires tomorrow, it would put us something like 12 mil over the cap. There's no way we could get under, so what is the NFL gonna do? Fine Snyder? Again, I've never seen the situation come up before, so I don't know what would happen. I have to assume the hit gets moved to next year, but I don't really know.

[Est.1974]

I got that. What I'm saying is, I don't know what the league would do about it. If Samuels retires tomorrow, it would put us something like 12 mil over the cap. There's no way we could get under, so what is the NFL gonna do? Fine Snyder? Again, I've never seen the situation come up before, so I don't know what would happen. I have to assume the hit gets moved to next year, but I don't really know.

This ?

All 53 team players and the 8 players on the practice squad count towards the salary cap. A team may not exceed the salary cap. If a team does exceed the cap, the NFL can waive players from the team, starting with those earning the lowest salaries, until the team's payroll has fallen under the cap. In addition, the NFL may fine a team up to $1 million per day for exceeding the cap.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Yeah, but I just can't see the league doing that. You've got a team in compliance with the cap, then all of a sudden is way over, with no way out of it, because of something out of their control. Can't see the league fining a team tens of millions of dollars for that.

[Est.1974]

Yeah, but I just can't see the league doing that. You've got a team in compliance with the cap, then all of a sudden is way over, with no way out of it, because of something out of their control. Can't see the league fining a team tens of millions of dollars for that.

We do have a way out of it. We put him on IR this year.

This team had to account for 'dead cap space ' on #21 the year after he was murdered. Rules appear to be rules. I don't see them making any exceptions.

Anyway, its a mute point as it isn't going to happen. And I don't think you will be convinced to change your opinion. I'm going for another beer. :thumbsup:

[Rufus T Firefly]

We do have a way out of it. We put him on IR this year.

This team had to account for 'dead cap space ' on #21 the year after he was murdered. Rules appear to be rules. I don't see them making any exceptions.

Anyway' date=' its a mute point as it isn't going to happen. And I don't think you will be convinced to change your opinion. I'm going for another beer. :thumbsup:[/quote']

Well, as you said, we had to take the hit on Taylor the year AFTER he was killed. That's what I was assuming would happen with a mid-season retirement.

And I don't see how you can IR a player who just retired to get out of his cap hit. If you can, then that answers my question anyway.

I don't know what opinion you think I'm clinging to, but there isn't one.

[Est.1974]

I don't know what opinion you think I'm clinging to, but there isn't one.

I think your opinion is the league can't / or won't do anything if the retirement of Samuels caused the 'skins to breach the 2009 salary cap. Thats the only thing I can assume given you said you have read the posts in this thread that I think state the cap rules.

Maybe your right and they'll just brush it under the carpet. :doh:

[Rufus T Firefly]

I think your opinion is the league can't / or won't do anything if the retirement of Samuels caused the 'skins to breach the 2009 salary cap. Thats the only thing I can assume given you said you have read the posts in this thread that I think state the cap rules.

Maybe your right and they'll just brush it under the carpet. :doh:

Wow.

[Est.1974]

Wow.

C'mon, it wasn't that bad was it ? What am I missing ?

[Rufus T Firefly]

C'mon' date=' it wasn't that bad was it ? What am I missing ?[/quote']

I honestly have no idea what you're missing. I'm baffled as to how the converstaion devolved into whatever it became.

[Est.1974]

I honestly have no idea what you're missing. I'm baffled as to how the converstaion devolved into whatever it became.

I made the mistake of trying to answer this question you raised ;

Although I don't know what the NFL would do about it. I don't remember seeing it ever come up. I mean, a team in compliance with the cap halfway thru the season and then a player retires, putting them way over the cap. That could happen to a lot of teams, and I'm not sure how you punish them for it, or why you should.

My answers on salary cap rules were greeted with :

I don't know what the league would do about it

Yeah, but I just can't see the league doing that.

So I posted :

I think your opinion is the league can't / or won't do anything if the retirement of Samuels caused the 'skins to breach the 2009 salary cap. Thats the only thing I can assume given you said you have read the posts in this thread that I think state the cap rules.

You then post 'Wow'.

My bad.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Yes, and I also said multiple times, I assume the cap hit would be assessed next year, much like the Sean Taylor situation.

Your answer that "they could put him on IR" makes no sense. Could they put him on the IR next year too? Is this a big loophole, that you can place any retired player on the IR to get out of the bad cap situation the retirement brings? Not to mention, the net effect of IR'ing him would be exactly the same as what I suggested- it would push the dead money hit to next year.

And you're suggesting at other points that the league would start releasing Redskins left and right to get them in cap compliance (which wouldn't be enough, we literally couldn't release enough players to get under the cap if we had to take the whole release fee from Samuels this year) and fine Snyder tens of millions of dollars. This is kind of peril plenty of teams would find themselves in, where any player could up and retire in the middle of the year and screw the team over in a way they couldn't recover from.

So, short of a better answer, yes, my assumption remains that the hit would be taken next year. I don't see how that adds up to me suggesting "the league would just brush it under the carpet".