Chiefinonhaze Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 This is something that I've heard on this forum quite a bit. People say that teams can just stack the box, knowing that Campbell will not beat them. I don't really have access to any highlights, or film, so does anyone have knowledge on this? I think whether or not they are stacking the box tells us a lot about how effective Campbell has been. Because if our running game cannot run on a 6-7 man box, than it makes Campbell's job much harder. If defenses are dropping a lot of people back on each play, and our running game still is ineffective, than I believe that takes a lot of heat off Campbell. If in fact teams are stacking the box, than Campbell is not taking advantage of this. That would change a lot of peoples perspective on Campbell, including myself. Can anyone provide proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCskinFAN Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 can anyone provide proof of this? sure 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpfan Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I dont think its so much that teams are stacking the box. Our o-line just doesnt run block very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 We stack the box against ourselves with Old tired men, and worthless back ups posing as an offensive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefinonhaze Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Can someone actually contribute to the OP rather than saying the same things like in every thread. We get it, the O-line is weak. But if teams are stacking the box, it will make the O-line look much better than we think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stew Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Can someone actually contribute to the OP rather than saying the same things like in every thread. We get it, the O-line is weak. But if teams are stacking the box, it will make the O-line look much better than we think they are. Well, this could have been brought up in any number of threads talking about the O-line. There really isnt much to contribute that hasnt been said before. If you are really asking if other teams are stacking the box, well then get up and look it up instead of waiting for someone to do it for you. Thread fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 'Proof' might be hard because pre-snap screenshots may not show the whole story. For example, a defense can easily be geared towards stopping the run by having the safeties spend more time looking into the backfield, and perhaps cheating forward after the snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Eff proof, anyone watching the games this season can testify that teams plan to stop our run on early downs and Zorn usually plays right into their hands and runs right into it. Our Oline isn't great but its the awful playcalling that is the problem, we just dont catch anyone off guard. Campbell just hasn't proven enough for teams to worry about the passing game and until Zorn learns how to call a HB screen on 1st down nothing is going to change to alter the plodding pace of watching a Redskin game this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Eff proof, anyone watching the games this season can testify that teams plan to stop our run on early downs and Zorn usually plays right into their hands and runs right into it. Our Oline isn't great but its the awful playcalling that is the problem, we just dont catch anyone off guard.Campbell just hasn't proven enough for teams to worry about the passing game and until Zorn learns how to call a HB screen on 1st down nothing is going to change to alter the plodding pace of watching a Redskin game this season. /Close thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMVSkins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Can someone actually contribute to the OP rather than saying the same things like in every thread. We get it, the O-line is weak. But if teams are stacking the box, it will make the O-line look much better than we think they are. If they do it will have to be none redskins related so its always a lose lose situation on these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Well, they didn't in the bucs game. Numerous times, the announcers were describing being in a cover four with the secondary back to neutralize the receivers and how no one was getting open. Well, if you have four back that means that there's seven in the box. The box was not stacked. Mind you, though we didn't have a great running day that was our best run day yet. I'm not sure about the other games. I have a feeling in the other games they did stack against the run b/c Campbell was so much more accurate and the passing game was so much better... at least between the 20's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefinonhaze Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 Well, they didn't in the bucs game. Numerous times, the announcers were describing being in a cover four with the secondary back to neutralize the receivers and how no one was getting open. Well, if you have four back that means that there's seven in the box. The box was not stacked.Mind you, though we didn't have a great running day that was our best run day yet. I'm not sure about the other games. I have a feeling in the other games they did stack against the run b/c Campbell was so much more accurate and the passing game was so much better... at least between the 20's. Thats a good response, thanks. I like when people actually talk football rather than give smart *** replies. I believe this deserved a thread of its own, because there is a lot to discuss when it comes to how teams are attacking us, rather than how we're attacking them. If what your saying is true, it explains why Campbell had trouble passing in that game. That means they were only rushing 4 and still getting to us, which is sad. That also means our 5 lineman cant outblock 4 DL to give CP a hole to run through, which is also sad. Campbell still played bad, i'm not excusing his poor performance. I would have rather had Oher than Orakpo, all day. This would have helped our run game/pass blocking, and Jarmon could have been DE, with Wilson playing LB. I would feel much comftrable with that, but Orakpo is still a beast and its hard to pass up talent like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I'm glad someone finally asked this question...This is one of the biggest myths that is pushed on this board...Stating that teams are stacking the box against our running game, couldn't be farther from the truth...The Bucs were in a "2 deep shell(2 safety's high)" the entire game...The Lions played us in this same "2 deep shell"....Teams are stopping our running game with only 7 in the box... Think about it....How can teams consistently double Moss w/a safety and CB w/8 in the box? that would leave 3/4 of the field wide open for our other recievers, and even an average JC and receiving core would attack that and make the defense pay...Besides that would be a very, very, very undound defense to play on a regular basis... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrepDC Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 No teams haven't been stacking the box other than on obvious running downs. People just say that they do as an attack on Campbell. The Bucs, for example, were playing a cover 4 defense designed to stop the pass. The only thing they did was have their linebackers shooting gaps and the resulted in a few tackles for a loss. In the Lions game our OL was just losing one on one battles in the trenches. The Rams game the same thing. The Giants game they definitely didn't stack the box because they already knew their front 7 would dominate our OL. The whole stack the box thing really stems from past seasons. This year not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Play-by-play from the Lions game: 2nd quarter 1-10-WAS 23 (8:23) 17-J.Campbell pass incomplete short right to 11-D.Thomas (32-A.Henry). 2-10-WAS 23 (8:17) 26-C.Portis left tackle to WAS 20 for -3 yards (90-G.Jackson). 3-13-WAS 20 (7:39) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short middle to 47-C.Cooley to WAS 32 for 12 yards (23-K.Hobbs; 57-J.Dizon). (On second down, Detroit had 8 in the box plus a safety on Cooley who was the tight end on the right side. That left Moss, who was wide left, and Kelly, who was flanked to the inside him, in single coverage against a cornerback and safety respectively. I thought it would have been a great opportunity to take a shot down the field if Campbell had audibled. Instead, we ran the ball and lost yardage on the play.) 3rd quarter 1-10-WAS 45 (8:13) 26-C.Portis right tackle to WAS 49 for 4 yards (97-J.Hunter). 2-6-WAS 49 (7:41) 26-C.Portis left tackle to 50 for 1 yard (40-M.Manuel). DET-40-M.Manuel was injured during the play. 3-5-WAS 50 (7:03) (Shotgun) 17-J.Campbell pass short right intended for 89-S.Moss INTERCEPTED by 30-K.Simpson at DET 46. 30-K.Simpson to WAS 46 for 8 yards (61-C.Rabach). (On second down, Detroit had 8 in the box with single press coverage on Kelly, who was wide left and Thomas who was wide right, and a safety on top. I thought it was another opportunity to take a shot down the field if Campbell had audibled. We ran again and gained only 1 yard.) I think there was a third instance in the game that this happened and we still ran the ball. But I think on that one Portis actually gained about 6 yards. Sorry no pictures, but I do have NFL Rewind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 (On second down, Detroit had 8 in the box plus a safety on Cooley who was the tight end on the right side. That left Moss, who was wide left, and Kelly, who was flanked to the inside him, in single coverage against a cornerback and safety respectively. I thought it would have been a great opportunity to take a shot down the field if Campbell had audibled. Instead, we ran the ball and lost yardage on the play.) Do you know what route they ran?(On the second down, Detroit had eight in the box with single press coverage on Kelly, who was wide left and Thomas who was wide right, and a safety on top. I thought it was another opportunity to take as shot down the field if Campbell had audibled. We ran again and gained only 1 yard.) Do you know what route they ran?This is a good thread, btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeannyTayTay21 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 sure2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Do you know what route they ran?Do you know what route they ran? This is a good thread, btw. They didn't run any routes since they were both running plays. On that second down play in the second quarter, the CB covering Moss on the outside was 10 yds away from him. The safety on top was 15 yds away and covering Kelly. By the time Moss and Kelly hit their 4th step, Portis was tackled behind the line of scrimmage. Same thing happened on that second down play in the third quarter with Kelly and Thomas except Portis gained 1 yard. I felt both were lost opportunities for big plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 They didn't run any routes since they were both running plays. On that second down play in the second quarter, the CB covering Moss on the outside was 10 yds away from him. The safety on top was 15 yds away and covering Kelly. By the time Moss and Kelly hit their 4th step, Portis was tackled behind the line of scrimmage. Same thing happened on that second down play in the third quarter with Kelly and Thomas except Portis gained 1 yard. I felt both were lost opportunities for big plays.Sounds like it would've been a good time for a slant (if they're that far off, a slant with one of those guys running after the catch can be a very big play). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I think the bigger problem is that we call 3 running plays and they're very easy for the defense to diagnose. They know exactly where the lane is designed to be and they attack it. We've had some success with play action, but it's just not enough. Al Saunders had a 700 page playbook for a reason. He was always trying to avoid predictability. Meanwhile, we're basically telling the defense what's coming like we have the Hogs and it's not working. ¡Qué misterioso! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
titus3 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Sounds like it would've been a good time for a slant (if they're that far off, a slant with one of those guys running after the catch can be a very big play). I agree. That's why I'm puzzled with JC. I know he's audibled before and even Zorn has mentioned in some of his post game interviews when JC has checked out of a bad play. So its not like he couldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The formula for beating Washington hasn't changed. Stop Portis, watch the offense self destruct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21forlyfe Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 The formula for beating Washington hasn't changed. Stop Portis, watch the offense self destruct. Pretty much :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21forlyfe Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 How about going deep on first down like thw Moss td.....Corn's problem is he only calls deep passes on third and DEEP...and for christ sake can we see a goaline playaction on first and goal? I thnik are deep passing game will open up if we take shots on first...not on 3rd and long...SMFH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd421 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 I don't think that teams are necessarily staking the box but I do think they are prepared to stop the run. Until JC proves that he is a threat and until our WRS start making plays teams will be able to key portis and make our passing game beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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