chow184 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 I blame Vinny because there's nobody else to blame. Until we stop thinking that we're one player away and continue to sign overpriced free agents instead of addressing the depth issues on this team (yes - this TEAM, not just the O-Line, but the DE position, the LB position, appareantly the WR position, the RB position, possibly the QB position). Vinny has a bunch of veterans on this team who are just occupying roster spots, but probably couldn't even make other NFL rosters - Renaldo Wynn - Philip Daniels - Mike Williams - James Thrash (previous years) - Ladell Betts - Todd Yoder Then we have a bunch of undrafted/guys drafted low that we have to just pray that they're good enough to contribute since we don't have money/high draft picks to address our other needs - Anthony Montgomery - Kendric Golston - Lorenzo Alexander - D'Anthony Batiste - Will Montgomery - Reed Doughty - Robert Henson - Stephon Heyer - Chris Horton - Marcus Mason - Marko Mitchell - Kareem Moore - Justin Tyron - Byron Westbrook - Edwin Williams - Chris Wilson - Anthony Aldridge - Rob Jackson I'll admit that some of these young players have contributed well (ala Horton, Doughty, and Golston), but others have shown why they were drafted where they were drafted (Montgomery's taking too many plays off, Heyer getting beat every other play and not knowing the difference between a run and a pass). People will say that the number of UDFAs who make our roster signifies that Vinny's a good talent evaluator, what I see from it is that we've got few draft picks and little money to spend on mid-tier free agents. So I can't give Vinny too high a grade as the GM. I pray that we stop overspending in free agency though. quit reading right there Betts would be a star on a team with a good offensive core like the saints or the patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Yeah, he's that bad, but most of the fire Vinny crowd (make no mistake I'd fire him too) are in denial about the true situation. Vinny is just the frontman for the real GM, Snyder, so he isn't going anywhere. You cannot deny that this front office's botches greatly outway their successes. For recent snafus. How do you explain away the coaching search last year? Trading two picks for Duckett and two picks for Taylor? Drafting Fred Davis? Disrupting the team with their public attempts to acquire Cutler then Sanchez (which likely doomed any chance of getting them anyway)? Further, disrupting the team with the Lewis hire (real bad timing on that, essentially telling the players they are giving up on the Coaching staff just four games into the season). And that is just in the last two years. This FO has been in place for 10 years with one break in 2001. Unfortunately Synder is relatively young so I wouldn't expect the Redskins to become perenial contenders again for many decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 quit reading right thereBetts would be a star on a team with a good offensive core like the saints or the patriots. its always interesting to see the homer opinions of guys on our team. Betts was a star when put into the position in 2006. Since then, he's been given opportunity after opportunity to shine and he's simply fallen short. But its nice to know that he still has some fans here in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 On a quick count, we have added 25 players to our roster since Vinny took over after Joe left. All but a few are out of the draft FA. We have better depth on this team now than we've had in many years. Whats that based on? How many of these guys have you seen perform? Are you confident in our corner depth? our Lb depth? our DEs other than Orakpo, Carter and Jarmon? our O-Line? our WRs? our RBs? I thought I'd never be longing for what we had in 2007, but having McCardell, Thrash and Lloyd as our WRs was a more productive unit than what we have now. Having Fabini and Heyer as backups was better than having Rinehart and Williams. The only position I'm willing to say we've gotten better at in terms of depth is the DE, but thats because I'm more confident in the depth there than the starters. Unfortunately we don't want to name them as starters. Our depth currently consists of a few draft picks, a few guys who were cut from other teams, and a lot of many undrafted guys. And we're praying that these guys can come through...and you're calling this good depth? I hate to do it, but I've got to question your definition of 'good'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prufRock Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Yeah, he's that bad, but most of the fire Vinny crowd (make no mistake I'd fire him too) are in denial about the true situation. Vinny is just the frontman for the real GM, Snyder, so he isn't going anywhere. Agreed. I have a theory that Vinny's presence is bad news simply because it's an indicator that Snyder is still up to his meddling ways. No well-established, in-demand GM would tolerate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 The problem is not the talent, but bringing in talent that fits. Derrick Dockery on a WCO team? Derrick Dockery and Stephon Heyer blocking lineman and linebackers on stretch plays? Only a moronic GM would give his coaches players who don't fit his schemes. The Bronco's ran the perfect type of WCO under Shanahan, partly because they would bring in lineman from lower rounds who FIT what they were doing.You have a beast in the middle of the defensive line but on his edges are complete scrubs. Philip Daniels? Seriously? This guy sucks and would barely get downs on about 90% of the teams in this league. You draft a super talented DE but make him a LB partly because you paid very little attention to backup LB in the previous years. Talent is scattered around the roster and half of it doesn't even fit the mold of this team. I liked this post a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoney26 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 quit reading right thereBetts would be a star on a team with a good offensive core like the saints or the patriots. Lol...Betts wouldnt be a "star" on any team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 On a quick count, we have added 25 players to our roster since Vinny took over after Joe left. All but a few are out of the draft FA. We have better depth on this team now than we've had in many years. Of the 53 men we have on the current roster (55 if you count Randy Thomas and Colt Brennan), we've got 9 UDFAs, 5 guys who we signed after they were cut by another team, and 9 low draft picks that made the roster. If we delve deeper into those numbers, we see that of these 23 players mentioned, only Mike Sellars, Rock Cartwright, Stephon Heyer, Reed Doughty, Kedric Golston, Chris Horton, Anthony Montgomery, and Derrick Dockery see significant playing time. The others aren't even in a position to challenge for playing time. Do you really think this team will finish well if anybody outside of these 8 guys have to play significant playing time. And Dockery shouldn't really be on that list cause he's one of our draft picks who was cut by somebody else. Shoot, people want Heyer to get even less playing time, but there's nobody to take the job from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubstix Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 Vinny is TRULY that bad for two basic reasons: 1) He is TRULY that bad on his own. No other team in the league would be picking him up. He is sort of a laughingstock. 2) He is NOT powerful enough to stand up to Danny's whims and to keep the little guy from trying to run the team, make terrible decisions, make the big splash, etc... I think #2 is the bigger problem. This is a joke right? Anyways, I've said it many times.....DC is the team where talented players become useless. For years now, we waste talent by making the players adapt to the scheme. We should be adapting the scheme based on the players skills. Orakpo at LB is the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. We are probably the #1 team with dead weight on it even during the Gibbs years too. Rock Cartwright? James Thrash? Wynn? Daniels? We have a D-Cordinator who plays our most physical corner 10 yards off the line of scrimmage on 3rd down. I say good job Vinny......you have brought in some major talent but our coaches make them useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I say good job Vinny......you have brought in some major talent but our coaches make them useless. Um, who brought in the coaches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted October 7, 2009 Author Share Posted October 7, 2009 Um, who brought in the coaches? vinny and dan,and dan has final say at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManleyMann7271 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 I am not sure who the problem is. But how has Vinny managed to stay off of the chopping block all these years, he must swallow. I would be very interested to see the Redskins without vinny. There is a much bigger chance of that than seeing the team without Snyder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManleyMann7271 Posted October 7, 2009 Share Posted October 7, 2009 This is a joke right? Anyways, I've said it many times.....DC is the team where talented players become useless. For years now, we waste talent by making the players adapt to the scheme. We should be adapting the scheme based on the players skills. Orakpo at LB is the biggest waste of talent I've ever seen. We are probably the #1 team with dead weight on it even during the Gibbs years too. Rock Cartwright? James Thrash? Wynn? Daniels? We have a D-Cordinator who plays our most physical corner 10 yards off the line of scrimmage on 3rd down. I say good job Vinny......you have brought in some major talent but our coaches make them useless. I think this guy is giving Vinny way too much credit. I credit Joe Gibbs for most of the talent the team has now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Share Posted October 8, 2009 I think this guy is giving Vinny way too much credit. I credit Joe Gibbs for most of the talent the team has now. well if you do that joe gibbs left the redskins stuck with jason campbell,and a haggard old O-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito-01 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Vinny is decent, but nowhere near some of the leagues best. Bobby Beathard, Ron Wolf are the gold standards ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Fried Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Vinny is okay in my book. I have always supported him against the tide that is ES hate for him. He has picked some very good players, especially the late rounders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Vinny is okay in my book. I have always supported him against the tide that is ES hate for him. He has picked some very good players, especially the late rounders.Not trying to dim your enthusiasm for the REDSKINS :point2sky.......but why did you say "late rounder(s)"... plural? Here are Vinny's picks so far. Who other than Horton would you call "very good" in the late rounds? 2009: Brian Orakpo DL Texas Kevin Barnes DB Maryland Cody Glenn LB Nebraska Robert Henson LB Texas Christian Eddie Williams RB Idaho Marko Mitchell WR Nevada-Reno 2008: Devin Thomas WR Michigan State Fred Davis TE USC Malcolm Kelly WR Oklahoma Chad Rinehart OL Northern Iowa Justin Tryon DB Arizona State Durant Brooks P Georgia Tech Kareem Moore DB Nicholls State Colt Brennan QB Hawaii Rob Jackson DL Kansas State Chris Horton DB UCLA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAAZ227 Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 the owner needs to stop playing fantasy football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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