Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 so you're arguing that the most dependable play (i.e., most predictable) is the one to call in every situation?or are there more criteria in the decision process? Did I say or imply that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitnskins Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Play calls do work better when you have better players, but Zorn has no choice but to work with what he has been given. Well, maybe Zorn should use a little deductive reasoning and tailor his calls to the players and their strengths, and if the talent he has isn't good enough, then maybe he shouldn't be going for it on 4th down!! You're arguments are weak, and you are simply trying to spin everything around by using the same arguments against everyone else with your own spin to it. I mean sure, no matter the outcome of any play during any game can be second guessed......BUT, you are acting like the Coach can't be held accountable for the calls he makes, because anything can happen on any play, and if the calls works then he's a genius, and if it doesn't then he's a villain....WELL, guess what pal, that's the way it works, and that's why you have GOOD COACHES, and BAD COACHES, as the plays they call and the results from them, shape our view of each respective Coach......What in the hell else do we have to go on??????????????? Get real man, and stop playing that devils advocate fiddle of yours! Anybody can plainly see that Jim Zorns play calling, and game management leave a lot to be desired. The only proof i need of that is his overall Coaching record to prove my point......and if that's not enough for you, then go ahead and check out our Offensive Rankings......or our scoring average......or our average margin of victory when we do win.....or how our Special Teams coach having to tell our Head Coach when to call Timeouts, because our Head Coach still doesn't understand clock management, and if the truth be known, has way too much on him trying to be the Head Coach and O-Coordinator.. Regardless....sticking up for Jim Zorn, is like trying to single-handedly keep the Titanic afloat!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 This thread is ridiculous. Ok, so running left didn't work against the woeful defensive line of the Rams. Why would it work against the woeful Lions line? Just look out our running game right now. It's pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Detroit knew that we run left in short yardage. They crashed the play, it wasn't hard for them.I'm wondering, Oldfan, if you've pulled the statistics from the first 3 games of Joe Gibbs' second season and compared it to the first 3 games of Zorn's second season. Seeing as how you say Gibbs' offense wouldn't work in the NFL, by design, and Zorn's would. ..... Ouch. Let me add, that the brilliance of Gibbs was that when something wasn't working, he changed things up. It happened after his 0-5 start in Gibbs I...and it happened when he went after Al Saunders and told him to get back to 'Redskins football' (i.e. smash mouth running-game) after big Al got stubborn about about using his playbook. This coaching staff is either blind or stubborn with pride...something Gibbs could never be accused of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Detroit knew that we run left in short yardage. They crashed the play, it wasn't hard for them. You have no evidence at all for your claim. They had no way of predicting that play. I'm wondering, Oldfan, if you've pulled the statistics from the first 3 games of Joe Gibbs' second season and compared it to the first 3 games of Zorn's second season. Seeing as how you say Gibbs' offense wouldn't work in the NFL, by design, and Zorn's would. Why would we cherry-pick just the first three games of the second season to make that judgment? Does that work out in your favor or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You have no evidence at all for your claim. They had no way of predicting that play. Wasn't it you that claimed, in this thread no less, that the play is our "The stretch left is their most dependable play for positive yardage."? Gee I wonder why a team might be waiting for that play? Its almost like they've watched in on video the week before and prepared for it. This must be video-gate all over again....what was that....oh they are allowed to watch our film....oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You have no evidence at all for your claim. They had no way of predicting that play. No evidence? We didn't gain a yard. The LBers slid left down the LOS as soon as they saw the play developing. Actually, I think the player that made the final tackle came all the way from the other side of the field. There was no concern about a naked boot. Or a PA Pass, or a toss right. They smelled it, and based on their film study, reacted. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% certain that Zorn has run left every 4th and short play this year. "No evidence." Now that's rich, OF. Why would we cherry-pick just the first three games of the second season to make that judgment? Does that work out in your favor or something? I don't know, I figured you would have pulled the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Well, maybe Zorn should use a little deductive reasoning and tailor his calls to the players and their strengths, and if the talent he has isn't good enough, then maybe he shouldn't be going for it on 4th down!! The playcalling should be based on the relative strengths-weaknesses of his players v. the Detroit Lions... done without a crystal ball. WELL, guess what pal, that's the way it works, and that's why you have GOOD COACHES, and BAD COACHES, as the plays they call and the results from them, shape our view of each respective Coach......What in the hell else do we have to go on??????????????? A bad call should be a bad call whether it works or not. If you can't offer sound criticism regardless of the outcome, then just keep quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 No evidence? We didn't gain a yard. The LBers slid left down the LOS as soon as they saw the play developing. Actually, I think the player that made the final tackle came all the way from the other side of the field.There was no concern about a naked boot. Or a PA Pass, or a toss right. They smelled it, and based on their film study, reacted. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99% certain that Zorn has run left every 4th and short play this year. "No evidence." Now that's rich, OF. That's all baloney based on hindsight. If the play had worked, people would have been singing Zorn's praises for the call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 That's all baloney based on hindsight. If the play had worked, people would have been singing Zorn's praises for the call. Poll: Raise your hand if you were watching the game yesterday and you KNEW that Zorn was going to run left. [raises hand] Anyone else? Will be interesting to see the results of this informal poll... seeing as how I've done 0 minutes of film study, while the Lions' team and staff probably put in 30+ hours in prep for the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 You have no evidence at all for your claim. They had no way of predicting that play. :rotflmao: That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Poll: Raise your hand if you were watching the game yesterday and you KNEW that Zorn was going to run left. [raises hand] Anyone else? Will be interesting to see the results of this informal poll... seeing as how I've done 0 minutes of film study, while the Lions' team and staff probably put in 30+ hours in prep for the game. It's become so predictable on 3rd or 4th and short to beg anything else, because anything else would work. JC could have taken the snap, ran right, and we'd watch him score with all 11 Lions going the other way. That call has already been defended by Zorn in each of the 2 previous games. Yet, he does it again. In the first quarter, before we had worn their defense down at all. It's not even pathetic anymore. It's like watching Frerotte head-butt the wall play, and then he does it again in the next game. Except at least Frerotte scored. We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Poll: Raise your hand if you were watching the game yesterday and you KNEW that Zorn was going to run left. [raises hand] Anyone else? Will be interesting to see the results of this informal poll... seeing as how I've done 0 minutes of film study, while the Lions' team and staff probably put in 30+ hours in prep for the game. Your "poll" is just another cheap shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman69 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Ouch.Let me add, that the brilliance of Gibbs was that when something wasn't working, he changed things up. It happened after his 0-5 start in Gibbs I...and it happened when he went after Al Saunders and told him to get back to 'Redskins football' (i.e. smash mouth running-game) after big Al got stubborn about about using his playbook. This coaching staff is either blind or stubborn with pride...something Gibbs could never be accused of. I love Gibbs, but... Do you not remember those runs by BETTS (of all people) at the goal line against the Giants? That was basically the same thing, except he did the same play 2 times in a row. Gibbs 2 wasn't the mad genious game plan changer he was during his first stint here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Your "poll" is just another cheap shot. I think it's telling that I was sitting on my couch yesterday saying "here comes the run left!" And then they run left. And the Lions stuff it. And you're here the next day saying there is no evidence that the Lions knew what was coming. Meanwhile, everyone is laughing at you. No offense of course. ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpumd Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Oldfan, did you know Zorn was going to run Portis left on the 4th & goal yesterday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Your "poll" is just another cheap shot. His point is you don't need your crystal ball to tell the 'Skins were going to run wide to the left. You don't need your crystal ball to show that it hasn't worked a single time this year. Zorn can take your crystal ball and shove it up his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman69 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I don't know, I figured you would have pulled the stats. He only pulls stats when they are to his benefit. I am a relative n00b on ES, but even I know that!* * - yes, I know you know that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Oldfan, did you know Zorn was going to run Portis left on the 4th & goal yesterday? Nah after all he said "The stretch left is their most dependable play for positive yardage." Why would he possibly think that they would run that play and why would anyone else think they would run it...that's just crazee talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 Oldfan, did you know Zorn was going to run Portis left on the 4th & goal yesterday? Nope. After the raft of crap he got for it last week, I figured that would be the last thing he'd do. He has balls, though. I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 He only pulls stats when they are to his benefit. I am a relative n00b on ES, but even I know that!* . I see you're adept at pretending that you know what you're talking about. Welcome to ES. You're fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 I love Gibbs, but... Do you not remember those runs by BETTS (of all people) at the goal line against the Giants? That was basically the same thing, except he did the same play 2 times in a row. Gibbs 2 wasn't the mad genious game plan changer he was during his first stint here. Gibbs II got us into the playoffs two of the four years he was here. That's pretty successful in my book...and, he was willing to shake things up when they didn't work. I don't see any of that now. I see entrenchment. I foresee failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitnskins Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 The playcalling should be based on the relative strengths-weaknesses of his players v. the Detroit Lions... done without a crystal ball.A bad call should be a bad call whether it works or not. If you can't offer sound criticism regardless of the outcome, then just keep quiet. The only thing worse than Zorns play calling, is your feeble attempts to stand up for him!! Now that i think about it, maybe you are right, and the other 100,000 plus people(including previous coaches, previous players, fans, and pretty much anyone with a functioning brain) all think that Zorns play calling is very predictable, and unimaginative. But apparently, you see something that no one else does, and your best comeback is saying that "a bad call should be a bad call, whether it works or not, and if you can't offer sound criticism regardless of the outcome, then just keep quiet".....LOL!! How old are you...I mean, it's like arguing with my 4 year old nephew....LOL. You spout your drivel and most of it makes no sense, yet act like it's the word of God. You give no credence to anyone else's points, and act like your view is the only correct one.....you're like a horse with blinders on.....free yo'self man, remove the blinders, and see the light!!!! There's a world of information out there for you to enlighten yourself with! Get out of the house for a minute, come out from under that rock that you've been hiding under....get some smelling salt, and wake up! The only good thing about your posts, is that they make me laugh...because i'm sitting here thinking that there's no way anyone could really believe everything that you are stating....could they?!?! If so, thats even funnier!! Dan Snyder loves people like you!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 He has balls, though. I like that. Unless it involves having the QB pass the ball into the endzone. The QB rating might be hurt if we do that, so lets run on 1st and goal and the 9, and then 2nd and goal at the 8, then have the RB throw into the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted September 28, 2009 Share Posted September 28, 2009 He has balls, though. agreed, they are where his brain should be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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